2022/23 Roster Thread XIII: Where the 13th Floor Has Been Located
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BiggE
SELL THE DAMN TEAM
Last night, especially in the 2nd, it looked like the Bolts were playing an ECHL team. If you just replaced Hart with Grosenick, their record would be something like 3-20-4 for 10 points and honestly, that’s being generous. No one, not a f***ing soul, that has had anything to do with building this roster, in even the most minuscule way, should still be employed by any professional hockey team. It’s a f***ing disgrace.
deadhead
Registered User
- Feb 26, 2014
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Torts and Fletcher were at cross purposes from talks to the media yesterday, but not sure Fletcher isn't merely playing it safe with Scott.
“Where we’re at as a team, we are grassroots, as far as teaching,” Tortorella said. “We are just beginning to teach. Even when we get healthy and get some guys in, we’re just beginning.”
“This isn’t a one-year type of thing,” he continued. “We’ve got some work to do. And it’s gonna take some time, no matter what people want to hear out here. It’s going to take some time to get this right.”
So is it a rebuild now, Chuck Fletcher?
“Again, there are labels,” he responded about 45 minutes later in a separate session. “I think if you look at it, we have worked at some young pieces over the last few years, we’ve talked over the last couple of years about needing more high-end talent, we’ve certainly tried to address some of that through the draft. So we have certainly tried to be aggressive in adding some young talent. And we’ve tried to find a way to add some pieces here to keep us competitive. So I’m not sure what the label is for that.”
“So I think there’s a path forward here to be more competitive, and I expect to be more competitive the rest of the way,” Fletcher said. “We’re five points out of a wild card spot now. We’ll see. We’ll see if we have the capability of staying in that race and competing.”
And Charlie's take:
Over the summer, Fletcher rightfully prioritized the reimplementation of structure, of compete, of work ethic after a truly embarrassing 2021-22 campaign. And the players, to their credit, have responded to that mandate. The fact that despite all that effort, they’ve still lost double the games that they’ve won speaks to just how deep the problems with their roster go. Tortorella is getting about all he can out of this roster — and this is all they have.
My understanding is that a large part of the reason why no one seems willing to use the word “rebuild” out loud is because ownership has yet to officially rubber-stamp its public usage or the plan itself — they’re still not quite ready to pull the plug on the idea that somehow, some way, this can be salvaged without a full-scale blow-up.
theathletic.com
“Where we’re at as a team, we are grassroots, as far as teaching,” Tortorella said. “We are just beginning to teach. Even when we get healthy and get some guys in, we’re just beginning.”
“This isn’t a one-year type of thing,” he continued. “We’ve got some work to do. And it’s gonna take some time, no matter what people want to hear out here. It’s going to take some time to get this right.”
So is it a rebuild now, Chuck Fletcher?
“Again, there are labels,” he responded about 45 minutes later in a separate session. “I think if you look at it, we have worked at some young pieces over the last few years, we’ve talked over the last couple of years about needing more high-end talent, we’ve certainly tried to address some of that through the draft. So we have certainly tried to be aggressive in adding some young talent. And we’ve tried to find a way to add some pieces here to keep us competitive. So I’m not sure what the label is for that.”
“So I think there’s a path forward here to be more competitive, and I expect to be more competitive the rest of the way,” Fletcher said. “We’re five points out of a wild card spot now. We’ll see. We’ll see if we have the capability of staying in that race and competing.”
And Charlie's take:
Over the summer, Fletcher rightfully prioritized the reimplementation of structure, of compete, of work ethic after a truly embarrassing 2021-22 campaign. And the players, to their credit, have responded to that mandate. The fact that despite all that effort, they’ve still lost double the games that they’ve won speaks to just how deep the problems with their roster go. Tortorella is getting about all he can out of this roster — and this is all they have.
My understanding is that a large part of the reason why no one seems willing to use the word “rebuild” out loud is because ownership has yet to officially rubber-stamp its public usage or the plan itself — they’re still not quite ready to pull the plug on the idea that somehow, some way, this can be salvaged without a full-scale blow-up.
O'Connor: Whether they like it or not, the Flyers need to call it a rebuild
So far, the Flyers have been terrified to put a label on the organization's direction, even if it should be obvious.
theathletic.com
Hollywood Cannon
I'm Away From My Desk
mize370
Registered User
Untouchable list going forward for me.
90 % untouchable unless an amazing deal hits. Never say never
Hart
75% same as above
Konecny
100 % trade bait.
Everyone and Everything including the office furniture and all the people sitting in them!!
90 % untouchable unless an amazing deal hits. Never say never
Hart
75% same as above
Konecny
100 % trade bait.
Everyone and Everything including the office furniture and all the people sitting in them!!
Beef Invictus
Revolutionary Positivity
They will never hold themselves or each other accountable willingly to the extent required to change anything. Not beyond Clarke blaming everything on someone else.
Beef Invictus
Revolutionary Positivity
Torts and Fletcher were at cross purposes from talks to the media yesterday, but not sure Fletcher isn't merely playing it safe with Scott.
“Where we’re at as a team, we are grassroots, as far as teaching,” Tortorella said. “We are just beginning to teach. Even when we get healthy and get some guys in, we’re just beginning.”
“This isn’t a one-year type of thing,” he continued. “We’ve got some work to do. And it’s gonna take some time, no matter what people want to hear out here. It’s going to take some time to get this right.”
So is it a rebuild now, Chuck Fletcher?
“Again, there are labels,” he responded about 45 minutes later in a separate session. “I think if you look at it, we have worked at some young pieces over the last few years, we’ve talked over the last couple of years about needing more high-end talent, we’ve certainly tried to address some of that through the draft. So we have certainly tried to be aggressive in adding some young talent. And we’ve tried to find a way to add some pieces here to keep us competitive. So I’m not sure what the label is for that.”
“So I think there’s a path forward here to be more competitive, and I expect to be more competitive the rest of the way,” Fletcher said. “We’re five points out of a wild card spot now. We’ll see. We’ll see if we have the capability of staying in that race and competing.”
And Charlie's take:
Over the summer, Fletcher rightfully prioritized the reimplementation of structure, of compete, of work ethic after a truly embarrassing 2021-22 campaign. And the players, to their credit, have responded to that mandate. The fact that despite all that effort, they’ve still lost double the games that they’ve won speaks to just how deep the problems with their roster go. Tortorella is getting about all he can out of this roster — and this is all they have.
My understanding is that a large part of the reason why no one seems willing to use the word “rebuild” out loud is because ownership has yet to officially rubber-stamp its public usage or the plan itself — they’re still not quite ready to pull the plug on the idea that somehow, some way, this can be salvaged without a full-scale blow-up.
O'Connor: Whether they like it or not, the Flyers need to call it a rebuild
So far, the Flyers have been terrified to put a label on the organization's direction, even if it should be obvious.
There's also the small fact that Charles refused to rebuild and doesn't think they need to, and all the team's actions point to that being the case as well as his own words.
Tortorella has no real power on the direction of the team, especially as an outsider. Fletcher does. He's the GM and President and his fat little minion is the AGM and VP. He has a stranglehold on control. Tortorella isn't ordering them around.
deadhead
Registered User
- Feb 26, 2014
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- 22,271
Torts has all the power, because the media crescendo is building, and they're all supporting Torts.
At some point Comcast corporate is going to read the tea leafs, force Scott into retirement, fire Fletcher or at least push him upstairs and out of the way, and Torts/Briere will run the rebuild. I expect a bunch of guys moved out at the TDL, some more this summer, and a couple more next summer when the pain of eating contracts is reduced.
I told you that when they hired Torts, they thought they were getting a turn around specialist who would kick ass on the veterans and make them a winner - they didn't do their homework - that's not Tort's MO. He rebuilds teams, not jump starts them. I saw this months ago and now it's become obvious - he's making it clear it's a rebuild, whether the FO likes it or not. Nor can they fire him, both the money ($9M in HC contracts the next two years) and the optics preclude that option.
At some point Comcast corporate is going to read the tea leafs, force Scott into retirement, fire Fletcher or at least push him upstairs and out of the way, and Torts/Briere will run the rebuild. I expect a bunch of guys moved out at the TDL, some more this summer, and a couple more next summer when the pain of eating contracts is reduced.
I told you that when they hired Torts, they thought they were getting a turn around specialist who would kick ass on the veterans and make them a winner - they didn't do their homework - that's not Tort's MO. He rebuilds teams, not jump starts them. I saw this months ago and now it's become obvious - he's making it clear it's a rebuild, whether the FO likes it or not. Nor can they fire him, both the money ($9M in HC contracts the next two years) and the optics preclude that option.
Chicken N Raffls
Here for the chaos and lolz
Paraphrasing Chuck. Tried to address some of that through the draft. So we've certainly been aggressive trying to add young talent
You mean you made picks at the draft? That's aggressive? What a joke. Not to mention all the draft picks pissed away. Is he that clueless or does he think the fans are? Has to be one or the other.
Hollywood Cannon
I'm Away From My Desk
"upstairs and out of the way." LOLLLLLL. Because if there's one thing that this organization does right, it's sending management "upstairs and out of the way."
They're going to read the tea leaves and recognize that Tortorella is a failure of a coach also. They all need to go. Every single one of them.
Is it good management to hire a coach when "you didn't do your homework?"
They're going to read the tea leaves and recognize that Tortorella is a failure of a coach also. They all need to go. Every single one of them.
Is it good management to hire a coach when "you didn't do your homework?"
BiggE
SELL THE DAMN TEAM
Serious question: is there anything that this organization did or might yet do that you won’t defend? It must be exhausting to be Cuck’s HFboards lackey. I hope you are at least well compensated.Torts and Fletcher were at cross purposes from talks to the media yesterday, but not sure Fletcher isn't merely playing it safe with Scott.
“Where we’re at as a team, we are grassroots, as far as teaching,” Tortorella said. “We are just beginning to teach. Even when we get healthy and get some guys in, we’re just beginning.”
“This isn’t a one-year type of thing,” he continued. “We’ve got some work to do. And it’s gonna take some time, no matter what people want to hear out here. It’s going to take some time to get this right.”
So is it a rebuild now, Chuck Fletcher?
“Again, there are labels,” he responded about 45 minutes later in a separate session. “I think if you look at it, we have worked at some young pieces over the last few years, we’ve talked over the last couple of years about needing more high-end talent, we’ve certainly tried to address some of that through the draft. So we have certainly tried to be aggressive in adding some young talent. And we’ve tried to find a way to add some pieces here to keep us competitive. So I’m not sure what the label is for that.”
“So I think there’s a path forward here to be more competitive, and I expect to be more competitive the rest of the way,” Fletcher said. “We’re five points out of a wild card spot now. We’ll see. We’ll see if we have the capability of staying in that race and competing.”
And Charlie's take:
Over the summer, Fletcher rightfully prioritized the reimplementation of structure, of compete, of work ethic after a truly embarrassing 2021-22 campaign. And the players, to their credit, have responded to that mandate. The fact that despite all that effort, they’ve still lost double the games that they’ve won speaks to just how deep the problems with their roster go. Tortorella is getting about all he can out of this roster — and this is all they have.
My understanding is that a large part of the reason why no one seems willing to use the word “rebuild” out loud is because ownership has yet to officially rubber-stamp its public usage or the plan itself — they’re still not quite ready to pull the plug on the idea that somehow, some way, this can be salvaged without a full-scale blow-up.
O'Connor: Whether they like it or not, the Flyers need to call it a rebuild
So far, the Flyers have been terrified to put a label on the organization's direction, even if it should be obvious.
BernieParent
In misery of redwings of suckage for a long time
To add to Charlie's post, here's the Twitter text accompanying the link to his article:Torts and Fletcher were at cross purposes from talks to the media yesterday, but not sure Fletcher isn't merely playing it safe with Scott.
“Where we’re at as a team, we are grassroots, as far as teaching,” Tortorella said. “We are just beginning to teach. Even when we get healthy and get some guys in, we’re just beginning.”
“This isn’t a one-year type of thing,” he continued. “We’ve got some work to do. And it’s gonna take some time, no matter what people want to hear out here. It’s going to take some time to get this right.”
So is it a rebuild now, Chuck Fletcher?
“Again, there are labels,” he responded about 45 minutes later in a separate session. “I think if you look at it, we have worked at some young pieces over the last few years, we’ve talked over the last couple of years about needing more high-end talent, we’ve certainly tried to address some of that through the draft. So we have certainly tried to be aggressive in adding some young talent. And we’ve tried to find a way to add some pieces here to keep us competitive. So I’m not sure what the label is for that.”
“So I think there’s a path forward here to be more competitive, and I expect to be more competitive the rest of the way,” Fletcher said. “We’re five points out of a wild card spot now. We’ll see. We’ll see if we have the capability of staying in that race and competing.”
And Charlie's take:
Over the summer, Fletcher rightfully prioritized the reimplementation of structure, of compete, of work ethic after a truly embarrassing 2021-22 campaign. And the players, to their credit, have responded to that mandate. The fact that despite all that effort, they’ve still lost double the games that they’ve won speaks to just how deep the problems with their roster go. Tortorella is getting about all he can out of this roster — and this is all they have.
My understanding is that a large part of the reason why no one seems willing to use the word “rebuild” out loud is because ownership has yet to officially rubber-stamp its public usage or the plan itself — they’re still not quite ready to pull the plug on the idea that somehow, some way, this can be salvaged without a full-scale blow-up.
O'Connor: Whether they like it or not, the Flyers need to call it a rebuild
So far, the Flyers have been terrified to put a label on the organization's direction, even if it should be obvious.
flyerslducks
Registered User
- Feb 15, 2017
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What high end talent have they tried acquiring thru the draft? Surely they aren’t talking about gauthier as the guy they are depending on to take this team to the next level…we need wayyyyyy more than that lol
BiggE
SELL THE DAMN TEAM
The media crescendo? Lol, puhleeze!! There are maybe 15,000 people left who care deeply about this team, there will be no media crescendo, especially as long as the Eagles are still playing. And, if the Birds make the SB, a week later it will all be about spring training, the upcoming NCAA basketball tournament and the Sixers stretch drive.
As long as a minimum amount of ST holders keeping shelling out cash and they keep selling Gritty merch, no one at the ownership level will give a damn. Comcast doesn’t give a rat’s ass about the hockey team, their only concern is the building.
Cuck is going nowhere, neither is Torts. The script has already been written. At some point between January and April, Cuck will be “promoted” to President and Briere will be the next useless yes man GM. Torts will be here til at least midway thru the 24-25 season too.
The only light at the end of this team’s tunnel is an atomic bomb explosion. Until this team is sold, it will go back and forth between so-so and horrible with no end in sight. It’s already been going on for a decade, open your eyes.
As long as a minimum amount of ST holders keeping shelling out cash and they keep selling Gritty merch, no one at the ownership level will give a damn. Comcast doesn’t give a rat’s ass about the hockey team, their only concern is the building.
Cuck is going nowhere, neither is Torts. The script has already been written. At some point between January and April, Cuck will be “promoted” to President and Briere will be the next useless yes man GM. Torts will be here til at least midway thru the 24-25 season too.
The only light at the end of this team’s tunnel is an atomic bomb explosion. Until this team is sold, it will go back and forth between so-so and horrible with no end in sight. It’s already been going on for a decade, open your eyes.
Something I can see being a problem, even if Torts is trying to do something and build from there, if Chuck supposedly is lock step with Scott, Torts is the first to go before Torts, I feel, and that should be a big "we're f***ed" moment for the club and its future.
I'm not saying either are good, I think Torts is totally the wrong coach for this team and I think Chuck is sniffing his farts so much he is not able to escape them and realize how f*** this team is from any other perspective.
deadhead
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- Feb 26, 2014
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They need more than Gauthier, which of course, was Tort's point.
But I like Gauthier b/c it's harder to find big, skilled centers than skilled smurfs, you can often nail a "smurf" center a little later in the draft who can score, but someone with the potential to dominate at both ends of the ice is hard to find. Now whether he has the IQ to fill that role remains to be seen.
Torts is exactly the right coach for this team, because rebuilding isn't about trading everyone, that's a ten year or longer plan, it's about identifying who on your current roster and system are keepers, and gradually developing them and moving them into bigger roles. If the Flyers get 3 top 10 picks in 2023 through 2025, they still have to fill out the rest of the roster.
But I like Gauthier b/c it's harder to find big, skilled centers than skilled smurfs, you can often nail a "smurf" center a little later in the draft who can score, but someone with the potential to dominate at both ends of the ice is hard to find. Now whether he has the IQ to fill that role remains to be seen.
Torts is exactly the right coach for this team, because rebuilding isn't about trading everyone, that's a ten year or longer plan, it's about identifying who on your current roster and system are keepers, and gradually developing them and moving them into bigger roles. If the Flyers get 3 top 10 picks in 2023 through 2025, they still have to fill out the rest of the roster.
Striiker
Former Flyers Fan
It’s embarrassing that Charlie is still sucking Torts balls and pretending he’s not a worthless lying prick.
Still trying to sell that “effort was the problem” bullshit too.
Still trying to sell that “effort was the problem” bullshit too.
BobbyClarkeFan16
Registered User
flyersnorth
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- Oct 7, 2019
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I’m listening to this now. So it just happen to be part of the discussion. ASF claimed Lombardi is the advisor who sits in the most with Fletcher amongst them.
He just said Briere was a driving force of the Deslauiries signing so yeah.
Just listened to it too.
The more we hear about the inner workings of the organization, the more it feels like we're being punk'd. It has to be, right?
Charlie adds fuel to the fire that there's just no sense of a plan or direction.
How did we get here?
BobbyClarkeFan16
Registered User
Imagine thinking that management and coaching have done a good job because they worked in young players to the line up.
Flyerfan4life
Registered User
memer when we said Briere is just more of the same..
yah... i memer....
yah... i memer....
FLYguy3911
Sanheim Lover
- Oct 19, 2006
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What you are seeing is who has more leverage. Torts in the first year of a $16 million contract knows his job is safe because the team doesn't want to be on the hook for more dead money from a coach's contract and Fletcher is basically a lame duck GM who has very little to sell, but he has to be a used car salesman until the shit finally burns to the ground.
BrindamoursNose
Registered User
- Oct 14, 2008
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You think it takes 10 years+ to identify and trade players you don't want anymore in a rebuild?
Holy s*** you really are Fletcher
FLYguy3911
Sanheim Lover
- Oct 19, 2006
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Lol. NYI didn’t even want him back. Chuck gonna give up a pick to clear a contract for Anisimov.
deadhead
Registered User
- Feb 26, 2014
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No, it's a ten year plan if you just trade everyone for draft picks, which some people have suggested, because most of those picks won't be 1st rd picks, which even if you hit, it takes 3-5 years or longer before they're ready to start in the NHL. Only a few idiot GMs will trade you 1st rd picks without top ten protection, so you're looking at a bunch of late 1st, 2nd rd and later picks if you strip the roster. As we saw with Hextall, 8 1st and 6 2nd rd picks got him a half dozen starters 5-6 years after he started "rebuilding."
You have to develop what you have, add some high draft picks over a 3-4 year period and find some talent on the margin. This requires patience with the current roster, patience developing prospects, and being opportunistic rather than trying to force things through trades and free agency.
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