2022/23 Roster Thread XII: The Twelfth Night, a comedy play

[bennysflyers16]

“Second line level”.

Deady is a big supporter of Torts and Chuckles metrics tho. Let’s see what that player card says

Please quote the posters who claimed he could get that.

A bunch of posters called Tippy being the target tho. Weird huh.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Deady is a big supporter of Torts and Chuckles metrics tho. Let’s see what that player card says



A bunch of posters called Tippy being the target tho. Weird huh.

He had 1.89 P/60 on one of the worst scoring teams in the league. He was 2.26 with Florida & is 2.75 with Ottawa so far. Giroux is/was legitimately still a really good two-way first line caliber player in this league even in his mid 30’s.

 

[flyerslducks]

Y’all really think couts/Atkinson can save this team lol

 

[bennysflyers16]

Y’all really think couts/Atkinson can save this team lol

Couts would be a huge help , Atkinson not a chance lol

 

[flyerslducks]

Couts would be a huge help , Atkinson not a chance lol

Of course they would help but no chance they help this team be a playoff level team lol. Both with major injuries too

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Couts would be a huge help , Atkinson not a chance lol

The last time we saw those two play with this team the team still stunk. We lost Giroux & gained DeAngelo since then in regards to moves of noteworthy consequences.

Yeah Couturier was hurt but are we getting that first line two-way caliber player whenever he comes back? Probably not.

 

[flyerslducks]

Think I asked this in the wrong thread…

What can be done with these long term injury contracts? Could be thst we have 3 of them now in Atkinson, Ellis, and couts.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Think I asked this in the wrong thread…

What can be done with these long term injury contracts? Could be thst we have 3 of them now in Atkinson, Ellis, and couts.

They’d all just sit on LTIR until they expire out or are moved. You can only go above the salary cap 10% in the off-season though. That’s almost $20M in capspace right there.

You have JvR coming off the books this summer as you noticeable cap relief but they’ve already eaten some into that savings with Sanheim’s extension.

Capfriendly has them with just under $8M right now for next year with a rumored $83.5M salary cap. That’s 16 players into that number.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Hyperbole doesn’t remove the fact that fletcher has gotten poor value out of a lot of his trades, and put himself in disadvantageous positions at the table by tipping his cards.

Oh yeah? How did he “tip his cards”?

 

[flyerslducks]

They’d all just sit on LTIR until they expire out or are moved. You can only go above the salary cap 10% in the off-season though. That’s almost $20M in capspace right there.

You have JvR coming off the books this summer as you noticeable cap relief but they’ve already eaten some into that savings with Sanheim’s extension.

Capfriendly has them with just under $8M right now for next year with a rumored $83.5M salary cap. That’s 16 players into that number.

f***ing awful. Gotta get rid of this management core who wants to compete rn. I will be livid if they trade 1st rounders left and right to get rid of these contracts

 

[Beef Invictus]

Oh yeah? How did he “tip his cards”?

By letting it leak that Giroux wanted Florida, as it turns out because Fletcher refused to bring him back. Fletcher's regime leaks like crazy on top of being highly predictable. Nothing this guy does is a mystery.

 

[deadhead]

Hyperbole doesn’t remove the fact that fletcher has gotten poor value out of a lot of his trades, and put himself in disadvantageous positions at the table by tipping his cards.

He got market value for G, he paid the market price or less to get rid of Ghost (compare to what Zito paid to dump 1 year of Stralman), he paid market price for Risto. Voracek could only be moved for an equivalent contract, he had negative value (as seen by CBJ being unable to move him and giving Bjorkstrand away). Braun was standard price for a top 4 veteran D-man. Niskanen was a steal.

Now whether he should have made the Ghost and Risto deals is another matter.
Same with whether they should have rebuilt instead of trying to compete after the 2018-19 implosion, but that was Holmgren's call.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

He did not get market value out of Giroux.

Please tell us what the market value of a player like Giroux is. You're going to say a 1st and a B prospect.

The first that they got for Giroux is not equal value to a first in the nearest draft which is what would be typical, so, no, he didn't get market value. The first could very well be a pick that is the fourth draft from when the deal was made. That is not on even footing.

 

[deadhead]

They’d all just sit on LTIR until they expire out or are moved. You can only go above the salary cap 10% in the off-season though. That’s almost $20M in capspace right there.

You have JvR coming off the books this summer as you noticeable cap relief but they’ve already eaten some into that savings with Sanheim’s extension.

Capfriendly has them with just under $8M right now for next year with a rumored $83.5M salary cap. That’s 16 players into that number.

Doesn't matter if you're rebuilding and aren't chasing overpriced free agents.
The 4 guys that fill out the bottom of the roster will only cost $4-5M.

 

[DAVIDE1333]

Bleacher Report power rankings have the Flyers currently ranked #9. I know power rankings are skewed towards record, but they must have not watched a single game.

 

[deadhead]

He did not get market value out of Giroux.

Please tell us what the market value of a player like Giroux is. You're going to say a 1st and a B prospect. The first that they got for Giroux is not equal value to a first in the nearest draft, so, no, he didn't get market value. The first could very well be a pick that is the fourth draft from when the deal was made. That is not on even footing.

Even if they could have traded with Colorado, they would have gotten their 2023 1st, which will probably be in the mid to late 20s, Florida's 2024 has a good chance of being a better pick, even if a year later.
They also got a 2023 3rd.

Find me a deal for a 34 year old rental that garnered more.
Trades like Stone were for an elite player in his 20s who was a good bet to sign an extension.

 

[prototypical4thliner]

Oh yeah? How did he “tip his cards”?

He limited his partners with giroux by not giving him the option of coming back. You don’t actually have to do it, but know how to play the game. Tell a franchise icon we will definitely consider it to open your options.

They further torpedoed ghosts minimal value in the months leading up to him being moved—it was readily apparent the team couldn’t wait to get rid of him. Compare it to what Arizona has done—he’s going to have some value at the deadline and that isn’t just due to change in contract status, he’s in a position to showcase his skill sets.

Risto was a coveted asset for fletcher for a while. All buffalo had to do was wait until he got a little more heat under his seat.

He got market value for G, he paid the market price or less to get rid of Ghost (compare to what Zito paid to dump 1 year of Stralman), he paid market price for Risto. Voracek could only be moved for an equivalent contract, he had negative value (as seen by CBJ being unable to move him and giving Bjorkstrand away). Braun was standard price for a top 4 veteran D-man. Niskanen was a steal.

Now whether he should have made the Ghost and Risto deals is another matter.
Same with whether they should have rebuilt instead of trying to compete after the 2018-19 implosion, but that was Holmgren's call.

You can’t separate the value garnered from the fact that fletcher has obviously self sabotaged his footing in negotiations.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Even if they could have traded with Colorado, they would have gotten their 2023 1st, which will probably be in the mid to late 20s, Florida's 2024 has a good chance of being a better pick, even if a year later.
They also got a 2023 3rd.

Find me a deal for a 34 year old rental that garnered more.
Trades like Stone were for an elite player in his 20s who was a good bet to sign an extension.

Florida's pick could still be a 2025 first round pick. Fletcher knew this when he made the deal.

I get that you have to defend Chuck's honor at every turn but this trade is not "market value" and neither was a lot of his other deals no matter how many times you say it.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Bleacher Report power rankings have the Flyers currently ranked #9. I know power rankings are skewed towards record, but they must have not watched a single game.

It's basically Hart ranked 9th and his team happens to be the Flyers

 

[deadhead]

Florida's pick could still be a 2025 first round pick. Fletcher knew this when he made the deal.

I get that you have to defend Chuck's honor at every turn but this trade is not "market value" and neither was a lot of his other deals no matter how many times you say it.

Yet no one has shown me an equivalent deal. Me thinks some people here like to talk, but not to do any homework.

And wouldn't it be a scummy, "low class" move to lie to Giroux to get him to agree to a trade that ups his value.

Florida's pick could still be a 2025 first round pick. Fletcher knew this when he made the deal.

I get that you have to defend Chuck's honor at every turn but this trade is not "market value" and neither was a lot of his other deals no matter how many times you say it.

And I could win the Powerball.
The conditions are pretty unlikely.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Yet no one has shown me an equivalent deal. Me thinks some people here like to talk, but not to do any homework.

And wouldn't it be a scummy, "low class" move to lie to Giroux to get him to agree to a trade that ups his value.


And I could win the Powerball.
The conditions are pretty unlikely.

You have said that the standard for a deal is a first and a B prospect. Fletcher did not get that nor the equivalent of it. That's the entire point.

I, nor anyone here, need to show you anything.

I also would encourage the front office of any of the teams that I like to be scummy and low class. The goal is to win and not to be "the best and nicest guy in the league." When you're called that it's because the rest of the league views you as an easy target. They could have very easily promised to bring him back and during the summer offer a deal to Giroux and if it wasn't to his liking the onus is on Giroux not the Flyers.

 

[flyerslducks]

Ben chiarot net the habs a 23 pick smh, a prospect, and a 4th. You could argue that the habs got a better deal

 

[Beef Invictus]

Yet no one has shown me an equivalent deal. Me thinks some people here like to talk, but not to do any homework.

And wouldn't it be a scummy, "low class" move to lie to Giroux to get him to agree to a trade that ups his value.


And I could win the Powerball.
The conditions are pretty unlikely.

You've been shown numerous equivalent deals, you just refuse to accept them.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Ben chiarot net the habs a 23 pick smh, a prospect, and a 4th. You could argue that the habs got a better deal

They did. Of the two trades, the 2023 pick was the most valuable asset moved. And Chiarot is a considerably worse player.

 

[Adam Warlock]

I said in July Seeler would be a lock om this team over York...people said no way. Then the team defenders stepped in...

August - "Seeler is the 7th Dman...he wont get playing time over York"

September - "York just needs a wake up call...hes only going down for a few weeks. He will be back up quick. Seeler wont stick"

October - "Seelers judtbplaying bc Ristos hurt. Its temporary"

We are now in November and York is still in the minors and Seeler is an everyday player.

There is no development strategy or winning plan. There is a fundamental flaw at the core of this team that values NHL cuspers who "paid their dues" over young talent bc of some f***ed up hatred of having natural talent. That is the problem and until it changes nothing will.

You cant win when your team values Nick Seeler over guys like York.