2022/23 Roster Thread XI: Konecny, So Hot Right Now, Konecny

[Beef Invictus]

As if Frost is anything more than a marginal 3C right now.
He deserves no more consideration than Allison, Bellows, MacEwen or Tippett.
They all need to earn their PT on the ice.

If Frost were being given Cates minutes, and vice versa, you'd be arguing in defense of that too.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Lol

Yeah, teams spring those plays to keep a rush going straight up the middle. Force D mistakes, drive the net. Modern offense.

Tortorella was lying when he said he'd stay out of guys way on offense. Only offense he really wants is pucks deep and grinding.

 

[Striiker]

That’s right Comrade Charlie, nobody has any reason to doubt the additions of this GM.

Just a bunch of overly negative fans.

 

[Audible Velvet]

That’s right Comrade Charlie, nobody has any reason to doubt the additions of this GM.

Just a bunch of overly negative fans.

Again, pushing aside context to push back against people with every right to be angry. Sure, under different circumstances, he’s not a horrible addition. But come on pal.

 

[flyerslducks]

idk why people are so against giving frost a shot at more toi and better deployment. All I read is that he is no more than a 3C or hasn't earned it. It's ludicrous. Give him a shot at 2c for a good amount of time, and let's see what we f***ing have.

if he excels, he will be part of the core that we retain and that's extremely valuable for this team. But ya, let's give scott laughton 19-23 minutes

 

[Flyerfan4life]

Yeah, teams spring those plays to keep a rush going straight up the middle. Force D mistakes, drive the net. Modern offense.

Tortorella was lying when he said he'd stay out of guys way on offense. Only offense he really wants is pucks deep and grinding.

its def. become clear that what he says in pressers is NOT the samething hes saying on the bench midgame.

idk why people are so against giving frost a shot at more toi and better deployment. All I read is that he is no more than a 3C or hasn't earned it. It's ludicrous. Give him a shot at 2c for a good amount of time, and let's see what we f***ing have.

he will on his next team... which wont long cuz surely AA is close to needing his contract offer..

 

[Ghosts Beer]

idk why people are so against giving frost a shot at more toi and better deployment. All I read is that he is no more than a 3C or hasn't earned it. It's ludicrous. Give him a shot at 2c for a good amount of time, and let's see what we f***ing have.

if he excels, he will be part of the core that we retain and that's extremely valuable for this team. But ya, let's give scott laughton 19-23 minutes

If we’re going on merit, Sedlak should be playing ahead of Frost.

 

[Tripod]

If we are going on merit, people who say Fletch is a good GM would be banned.

 

[Chinatown88]

That’s right Comrade Charlie, nobody has any reason to doubt the additions of this GM.

Just a bunch of overly negative fans.

 

[flyerslducks]

If we’re going on merit, Sedlak should be playing ahead of Frost.

 

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

"We need you to be an offensive player."
"Actually, scrap the offense, we need you to focus on defense."
"Wait, you're going to play offense again and we need you to carry the puck and make plays."
"Well, we decided it's best if you focus on defense and forget about carrying the puck. Just bang it off the board and chase it."
"We need your offense and we need you to use the space of the center ice. "
"We haven't seen enough of you defensively to trust you, so we're putting you on the fourth line and your ice time is limited until you can prove reliable."
"We think you'll be a great fit on the power play and that we can see you in a very important role."
"We just don't think you're ready and we're unsure of what we see in you."

If anyone thinks that's an environment a player can develop in, you're f***ing stupid.

The Flyers have done so much harm to Frost, I'm hoping that he gets moved just so that he can get out of this organization and the mentally Pejorative Slured coaches and management who have screwed his development from day one.

York will be their next target on who to chase out of town.

 

[Juicy Pop]

If we're going on merit, they should dress a few folks from the stands for having the will and the wallet to watch this horseshit live.

I don't think it would change that much honestly.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

If we're going on merit, they should dress a few folks from the stands for having the will and the wallet to watch this horseshit live.

I don't think it would change that much honestly.

it is the town for it

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

For those that don’t venture into the Phantoms thread…

Good thing the annual tradition of getting hurt in the AHL continues.

 

[Cody Webster]

For those that don’t venture into the Phantoms thread…

Good thing the annual tradition of getting hurt in the AHL continues.

So long acl. What a waste of a year +

Good thing he was down there learning all that wonderful knowledge from that great coach

 

[VladDrag]

Frost has played better this year, but he still goes MIA for long stretches.
He's simply not as good as some here would have us believe.

For one thing, while scoring is dependent on linemates, expected scoring not as much - if you make a good pass to a bad shooter, it's still a shot with a high expected value, even if the linemate doesn't finish.

Frost has an xGFrel -7.28. CFrel -0.53.

Sedlak in 3 games, playing with worse forwards, has a xGFrel +10.80.

So if Torts was going on merit, Sedlak should be playing ahead of Frost.

More seriously, Bellows (24) - Frost (23) - Allison (25) is (2) 1st rd picks and a 2nd, they're all auditioning.
Cates (23), Tippett (23) getting a shot in the top six with Farabee (22), TK (25).
So 7 of the top 9 forwards are 25 or younger.

I want to see more of Sedlak, so far he looks like the best 4C we've had since PEB. But it's only 3 games.

MacEwen is 26, Laczynski is 25, they both should get a shot at the 4RW spot. Laczynski is more sound, but MacEwen is more physical and maybe a tad faster, and so far he's actually shown better hands around the net. It helps that he's not playing with Thompson or Bunnaman.

You can't use xGFrel to determine passing ability. It just doesn't work like that. If you want to look at passing data, you have to look at tracking data, behind a paywall.

Expected scoring is just as absolutely dependent on linemates. Getting the puck into high leverage areas, and getting consistent score chances take skill. There is no doubt about that. You don’t just luck yourself into consistent chance generation, but you can pick yourself into scoring a goal.

(EDIT - this is why I hate posting with my phone - the first time I started writing my reply, the site kinda crashed and somehow jumbled the first post and second post. I deleted for clarity)

 

[deadhead]

Yet Sedlak, with fare worse teammates is outplaying Frost by a wide margin, both metrics and eyeballs.

The idea that Frost can only excel if he's in a top 6 role is ludicrous, he's had good linemates this year, and he's hasn't been terrible, but he hasn't stood out either.

The Deslauriers - Sedlak - Allison line was their best line, now whether they can do that with extended minutes against tougher matchups is unknown, but they certainly deserve more minutes, and I might double shift Sedlak and Allison with Frost for some shifts. Sedlak is definitely a good addition, how good remains to be seen, but he looks like a better player than you'd expect off his CBJ history, maybe 3 years in a 1st line role in the KHL improved his game?

But it's early, I think it's silly to get up in arms over TOI and line composition after 8 games, this team is a work in progress, Torts is right in that it'll take months for players to break old habits, you can practice but when the game starts players let muscle memory take over, but if they have the wrong memories, well . . .

There are good reasons to play the veterans right now, until everyone is on the same page, it'll be hard to judge players, especially defensemen. Once you've got a set lineup, it's easier to bring up prospects b/c they'll be playing with teammates who actually know what they're doing - and those veterans who can't cut it will be benched at that point.

It's a long season, and this season is all about developing a team first, and then identifying the players who fit going forward, first veterans and then prospects. The first weed out with prospects will be the older guys b/c there's a limited time line, if guys like MacEwen, Bellows, Laczynski and Allison don't fit at 24-26, you're gonna give them 2 more seasons? Whereas you can be more patient with Frost, Cates, Tippett and Lycksell at 23, and there's no rush with Zamula, York, Wylie, Foerster, Desnoyers, Wisdom.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Yet Sedlak, with fare worse teammates is outplaying Frost by a wide margin, both metrics and eyeballs.

The idea that Frost can only excel if he's in a top 6 role is ludicrous, he's had good linemates this year, and he's hasn't been terrible, but he hasn't stood out either.

The Deslauriers - Sedlak - Allison line was their best line, now whether they can do that with extended minutes against tougher matchups is unknown, but they certainly deserve more minutes, and I might double shift Sedlak and Allison with Frost for some shifts. Sedlak is definitely a good addition, how good remains to be seen, but he looks like a better player than you'd expect off his CBJ history, maybe 3 years in a 1st line role in the KHL improved his game?

But it's early, I think it's silly to get up in arms over TOI and line composition after 8 games, this team is a work in progress, Torts is right in that it'll take months for players to break old habits, you can practice but when the game starts players let muscle memory take over, but if they have the wrong memories, well . . .

There are good reasons to play the veterans right now, until everyone is on the same page, it'll be hard to judge players, especially defensemen. Once you've got a set lineup, it's easier to bring up prospects b/c they'll be playing with teammates who actually know what they're doing - and those veterans who can't cut it will be benched at that point.

It's a long season, and this season is all about developing a team first, and then identifying the players who fit going forward, first veterans and then prospects. The first weed out with prospects will be the older guys b/c there's a limited time line, if guys like MacEwen, Bellows, Laczynski and Allison don't fit at 24-26, you're gonna give them 2 more seasons? Whereas you can be more patient with Frost, Cates, Tippett and Lycksell at 23, and there's no rush with Zamula, York, Wylie, Foerster, Desnoyers, Wisdom.

You know enough about sample sizes to realize how dishonest you're being.

When you have to be dishonest in your defenses of Flyers management, they're not worth defending.

 

[Curufinwe]

Is it time to make Sedlak 2C and waive Laughton?

 

[landsbergfan]

You can't use xGFrel to determine passing ability. It just doesn't work like that. If you want to look at passing data, you have to look at tracking data, behind a paywall.

Expected scoring is just as absolutely dependent on linemates. Getting the puck into high leverage areas, and getting consistent score chances take skill. There is no doubt about that. You don’t just luck yourself into consistent chance generation, but you can pick yourself into scoring a goal.

(EDIT - this is why I hate posting with my phone - the first time I started writing my reply, the site kinda crashed and somehow jumbled the first post and second post. I deleted for clarity)

hfboards on mobile is absolute aids

 

[deadhead]

Is it time to make Sedlak 2C and waive Laughton?

Well, they're about the same age!

Sedlak playing well helps the rebuild b/c most of the prospects that need to be evaluated are wings.
So he's a better choice at center than Thompson, Bunnaman, Brown, J Cates in terms of giving bottom six wings a chance to show if they're NHL caliber.

And given the lack of depth at center in the system, signing a speedy competent 4C to a 2-3 year extension would not be a bad move, we'll see if he can sustain, but given the dreck that followed PEB at 4C, you can do worse.

Deslauriers is playing 8:27 at 4LW, he's not taking a lot of TOI away from other forwards, if you replace him in the lineup with a younger player, either you're limiting that player's TOI or taking it from other young forwards.

 

[Curufinwe]

"And given the lack of depth at center in the system, signing a speedy competent 4C to a 2-3 year extension"

This has to be a joke. Who is even thinking of extending a waiver wire pickup now?

 

[VladDrag]

I think Sedlak has been fine in his 3 games. It looks like he has some actual ability with the puck on his stick.

But signing him to a 2-3 year deal, particularly after a 3 game sample is a non-starter.

 

[deadhead]

Who said sign him now?

My point was if he sustains this level of play, he's a better 4C than we've had since PEB, and who objected to extending PEB?
Obviously you'd wait to see how the season plays out.
PEB signed 2yr/$2.9M (with the Flyers) then a 2yr/$3.6M contract (FA).

 

[Striiker]

Embarrassing