2022/23 Roster Thread XI: Konecny, So Hot Right Now, Konecny

[Beef Invictus]

Fletcher is not capable of getting value for JVR. Or anyone. All he does is lose. The whole league knows he's weak.

 

[renberg]

Fletcher is not capable of getting value for JVR. Or anyone. All he does is lose. The whole league knows he's weak.

You’re correct that Fletcher has been bent over in the past. At this point he should be well aware that his future lies in breaking that pattern. If he blows some deals along with this club being a lottery qualifier, his ass should be heading down the road.

 

[Striiker]

Fletcher is not capable of getting value for JVR. Or anyone. All he does is lose. The whole league knows he's weak.

The guy he paid a borderline 1st round pick to get rid of is currently 1st in defensemen scoring, by the way.

On the worst offensive team in the league.

All goals (2) or primary assists (3) too.

With less games played than the guys immediately behind him.

That’s the kind of GM Fletcher is.

 

[Magua]

Fletcher is not capable of getting value for JVR. Or anyone. All he does is lose. The whole league knows he's weak.

I for one am very interested to see how JVR will go from requiring a high 2023 1st to dump……to being traded for a 1st rounder. How could such a player have less than zero value months earlier? Is that good management to tank a useful player’s value that much? And with the bar set as a 1st in return, will it be good management when he doesn’t get that?

 

[Beef Invictus]

You’re correct that Fletcher has been bent over in the past. At this point he should be well aware that his future lies in breaking that pattern. If he blows some deals along with this club being a lottery qualifier, his ass should be heading down the road.

Putting the team in a position to have to deal Giroux and also lose the trade badly should have seen him fired by close of business the same day.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I for one am very interested to see how JVR will go from requiring a high 2023 1st to dump……to being traded for a 1st rounder. How could such a player have less than zero value months earlier? Is that good management to tank a useful player’s value that much? And with the bar set as a 1st in return, will it be good management when he doesn’t get that?

Sometimes I think players like JVR and MacEwen are a great test to see who can actually evaluate players. Fascinating that the people who are wrong about the one overlap heavily with the people wrong about the other.

 

[deadhead]

Putting the team in a position to have to deal Giroux and also lose the trade badly should have seen him fired by close of business the same day.

You have never shown me a comparable trade, for a rental forward who had 42 points in 57 games.
If you want to claim "lose the trade badly," show a comparable trade (not an elite forward like Stone who Vegas extended).

I for one am very interested to see how JVR will go from requiring a high 2023 1st to dump……to being traded for a 1st rounder. How could such a player have less than zero value months earlier? Is that good management to tank a useful player’s value that much? And with the bar set as a 1st in return, will it be good management when he doesn’t get that?

Duh. The cap. In October, you're taking on a full contract for a 33 year old forward who you don't know will fall off the cliff.

In March you're taking on half the remaining money (maybe nothing if the Flyers take a contract back), for a player for whom you have recent game film and can gauge whether he's still a top offensive performer.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Duh. The cap. In October, you're taking on a full contract for a 33 year old forward who you don't know will fall off the cliff.

In March you're taking on half the remaining money (maybe nothing if the Flyers take a contract back), for a player for whom you have recent game film and can gauge whether he's still a top offensive performer.

Fletcher is the one who insisted on dumping the whole salary. They could have retained or taken a contract back in July too.

What would change about having recent game film when he played all 82 games last year? Unless we're saying some teams won't pass the threshold of understanding the bare minimums of year to year variance. Then I'm totally on board. Let's rip some more bad orgs! Where's Chiarelli now? We can start there.

 

[deadhead]

Fletcher is the one who insisted on dumping the whole salary. They could have retained or taken a contract back in July too.

What would change about having recent game film when he played all 82 games last year? Unless we're saying some teams won't pass the threshold of understanding the bare minimums of year to year variance. Then I'm totally on board. Let's rip some more bad orgs! Where's Chiarelli now? We can start there.

When you're talking players in their 30s, last year can't be trusted - players often fall off the cliff after a good season.

When is hard to know, playing well last year increases the odds you'll play well this year, but those odds still aren't great in your 30s, at some point players "die." Aging curves may be continuous, but individual players tend to be variable.

By March you know if the player is still performing at a high level, and is healthy, two big questions with older players.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

When you're talking players in their 30s, last year can't be trusted - players often fall off the cliff after a good season.

When is hard to know, playing well last year increases the odds you'll play well this year, but those odds still aren't great in your 30s, at some point players "die." Aging curves may be continuous, but individual players tend to be variable.

By March you know if the player is still performing at a high level, and is healthy, two big questions with older players.

The flip side of this is that you get the benefit of having the guy for the full season. I suspect that what you’re saying is exactly what many teams think. Sometimes it will even be undeniably smart. But on the whole, just get the guy for more games and you’ll come out ahead in the long run.

 

[deadhead]

The flip side of this is that you get the benefit of having the guy for the full season. I suspect that what you’re saying is exactly what many teams think. Sometimes it will even be undeniably smart. But on the whole, just get the guy for more games and you’ll come out ahead in the long run.

Yes and No. The marginal value of the player depends on the situation of the team, if injuries, etc. cause them to drop out of playoff contention, then adding a player at the start of the season ends up with zero value - whereas by the TDL you have a better idea of the potential value of a rental to winning this season, especially towards going deep into the playoffs.

Now I think TDL trades get overvalued due to the winner's curse and the difficulty of integrating a player into your top 6/PP with only 20 games left in the season - which is why many of the best TDL trade are low cost acquisitions of bottom six/3rd pair guys that allow you to promote your own players in case of injury and replace them with a suitable veteran.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Yes and No. The marginal value of the player depends on the situation of the team, if injuries, etc. cause them to drop out of playoff contention, then adding a player at the start of the season ends up with zero value - whereas by the TDL you have a better idea of the potential value of a rental to winning this season, especially towards going deep into the playoffs.

Now I think TDL trades get overvalued due to the winner's curse and the difficulty of integrating a player into your top 6/PP with only 20 games left in the season - which is why many of the best TDL trade are low cost acquisitions of bottom six/3rd pair guys that allow you to promote your own players in case of injury and replace them with a suitable veteran.

Weird how you don't want to apply this level of context to certain other players. Yet you're proving that you can if you want to. Hmm.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

Here goes Deadhead acting like JVR is a waste of space & thinking Fletcher is even capable of maximizing trade value.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

Kevin Hayes should always be on a line with vets. Amirite? WOOF!

tl;dr he's high-end f***ing trash.

 

[Curufinwe]

We got a 4th for Brassard, so a 2nd or 3rd for JVR at 50% should be possible. Maybe even send him thru an extra team so the team getting him gets him at 25%.

 

[Curufinwe]

I don't know where some people got the idea that Torts was going to flood the lineup with prospects this year.

 

[flyersnorth]

This has got to be the most split personality organization ever.

 

[Curufinwe]

You said you were gonna play the kids?

Not those kids.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I recall many, many long posts from DH about how the kids were going to play. That past practice was dead, that it is a new age.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

Zinggg...


all lip service...

 

[deadhead]

Listed by Total TOI:

Farabee (22), Hayes, TK (25), JVR, N Cates (23), Laughton, Frost (23), Allison (25), Laczynski (25), Deslauriers, MacEwen, J Cates (25)
cameos: Lycksell (23), Hodgson, Tippett (23)

Provorov (26), TDA (27), Sanheim (26), Braun, Zamula (22), Seeler

 

[FLYguy3911]

Oscar who?

 

[Curufinwe]

Farabee is in his 4th NHL season. TK in his 7th. Credit to Torts for not.... benching them and putting them on waivers?

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Playing Farabee and Konecny. The team’s two best forwards.

Much praise. Much success.

 

[Curufinwe]

Farabee would probably benefit from a little less ice time given the summer he had.

I wonder when the GM is going to update us on how Atkin and Risto are coming along. We basically know the story with Coots and Ellis, but there's those two other big money injuries that they are keeping very quiet about.