2022/23 Roster Thread XI: Konecny, So Hot Right Now, Konecny

[deadhead]

If DeAngelo keeps playing like he has so far, why on Earth would you trade him? He's been terrific.

Well, I wouldn't go that far, he's been as advertised, great offensive skills, inconsistent defense, but he seems to be trying, and he's not the only D-man struggling with the new scheme.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Well, I wouldn't go that far, he's been as advertised, great offensive skills, inconsistent defense, but he seems to be trying, and he's not the only D-man struggling with the new scheme.

I think he's been pretty damn good. Their best defenseman. I don't think he's struggled defensively.

 

[Striiker]

Someone should just copy/paste his own anti-Ghost arguments back to him. Just swap out “Ghost” for “DeAngelo”. After all, TDA actually is what he spent years incorrectly shrieking that Ghost is.

If you hate Ghost and love TDA, it’s not because of anything that’s happening on the ice. That much is for sure.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

Someone should just copy/paste his own anti-Ghost arguments back to him. Just swap out “Ghost” for “DeAngelo”. After all, TDA actually is what he spent years incorrectly shrieking that Ghost is.

If you hate Ghost and love TDA, it’s not because of anything that’s happening on the ice. That much is for sure.

its easier just to laff and move on.

 

[TheKingPin]

TDA also isn't a rental. We signed him to a 2 year deal.

Exactly. Teams will pay up for term and D. We saw both with Chiarot getting a better return than G and Hagel getting a boat load.


This would all be if Fletcher got fired and a new GM knew it was time to rebuild. If you went all in on a rebuild, you could have 3-4 1sts. That sets this draft up really well.

 

[flyersnorth]

Exactly. Teams will pay up for term and D. We saw both with Chiarot getting a better return than G and Hagel getting a boat load.


This would all be if Fletcher got fired and a new GM knew it was time to rebuild. If you went all in on a rebuild, you could have 3-4 1sts. That sets this draft up really well.

I like the optimism, but I'm not sure many teams will be moving their 2023 1st this season. Fletch missed the boat on that one, among many other missed boats!

So far, three teams have traded away their 1st next year - TB (top 10 protected), Florida, and Dallas (top 10 protected).

And who got those picks? Chicago, Montreal, and Rangers.

Bastards.

 

[FlyerNutter]

He’s on a boat alright lol.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

I was a huge Ghost fan. So much so that I named my moniker after him.

Please go ahead & look at my posts about him pre-2018 playoffs vs. Pittsburgh.

I simply recognized & acknowledged his decline much earlier than most of his other fans, many of whom still cling to their hero worship.

 

[Beef Invictus]

If DeAngelo keeps playing like he has so far, why on Earth would you trade him? He's been terrific.

After all the shrieking you did about Sanheim and Ghosts defensive ability, labeling TDA as terrific is pretty hilarious.

It's clear that your support of players is tied entirely to whatever the team thinks.

 

[deadhead]

TDA is a more talented but less defensive responsible version of 2017-18 Ghost, he's also feistier, similar to TK.
If you want to credit Slavin with his Carolina success, go back to his Ranger season with Staal as his partner.

2018-19: CF 45.61%, CFrel,+0.55, xGF% 47.86%. xGFrel +1.01, GF% 54.80%, pp/60: 1.09, xGF/60: 2.56, PP xGF/60: 7.55
2019-20: CF 48.09%, CFrel +1.94, xGF% 47.24%, xGFrel +0.81, GF% 57.16%, pp/60: 1.74, xGF/60: 2.65, PP xgF/60: 8.12
2021-22: CF 56.06%, CFrel -1.34, xGF% 56.13%, xGFrel +1.50, GF% 66.71%, pp/60: 1.50, xGF/60: 3.31, PP xGF/60: 8.68

Ghost:
2016-17: CF 52.25%, CFrel,+1.88, xGF% 49.95%. xGFrel -0.09, GF% 36.95%, pp/60: 0.49, xGF/60: 2.27, PP xGF/60: 9.96
2017-18: CF 51.36%, CFrel,+2.15, xGF% 51.81%. xGFrel +3.47, GF% 58.03%, pp/60: 1.06, xGF/60: 2.38, PP xGF/60: 8.95
2018-19: CF 49.71%, CFrel,+3.07, xGF% 48.93%. xGFrel +1.73, GF% 41.83%, pp/60: 0.91, xGF/60: 2.27, PP xGF/60: 8.20
2021-22: CF 41.59%, CFrel, -0.73, xGF% 41.87%. xGFrel +0.79, GF% 42.68%, pp/60: 1.35, xGF/60: 2.17, PP xGF/60: 6.08

TDA consistently has a much higher GF% than xGF%, once, like Ghost in 2017-18 is probably a fluke, three full seasons suggests he's one of those players who is better than metrics suggest, probably because the team scores more than expected with him on the ice.

Exactly. Teams will pay up for term and D. We saw both with Chiarot getting a better return than G and Hagel getting a boat load.


This would all be if Fletcher got fired and a new GM knew it was time to rebuild. If you went all in on a rebuild, you could have 3-4 1sts. That sets this draft up really well.

Other than JVR, who could you trade at the TDL?
Teams that get those 1st pick hauls at the TDL are usually moving expiring contracts.

Teams buying are playoff teams that are usually up against the cap and don't want to take on term unless it's an elite player, and you'd have to take a bad contract or two back (see Schenn/Lehtera).

 

[captainpaxil]

So far it is looking like the idea of partnering provorov with an offensive defenseman is replicating the chemistry he had with ghost. This could be good for both players.
I'm too lazy to pull it up but until tda lays a hot like ghost did at the winter classic he's not near as "feisty" velocity is more important than mass in the science of impact and hockey for me is about collision

 

[FlyerNutter]

TDA is a more talented but less defensive responsible version of 2017-18 Ghost, he's also feistier, similar to TK.
If you want to credit Slavin with his Carolina success, go back to his Ranger season with Staal as his partner.

2018-19: CF 45.61%, CFrel,+0.55, xGF% 47.86%. xGFrel +1.01, GF% 54.80%, pp/60: 1.09, xGF/60: 2.56, PP xGF/60: 7.55
2019-20: CF 48.09%, CFrel +1.94, xGF% 47.24%, xGFrel +0.81, GF% 57.16%, pp/60: 1.74, xGF/60: 2.65, PP xgF/60: 8.12
2021-22: CF 56.06%, CFrel -1.34, xGF% 56.13%, xGFrel +1.50, GF% 66.71%, pp/60: 1.50, xGF/60: 3.31, PP xGF/60: 8.68

Ghost:
2016-17: CF 52.25%, CFrel,+1.88, xGF% 49.95%. xGFrel -0.09, GF% 36.95%, pp/60: 0.49, xGF/60: 2.27, PP xGF/60: 9.96
2017-18: CF 51.36%, CFrel,+2.15, xGF% 51.81%. xGFrel +3.47, GF% 58.03%, pp/60: 1.06, xGF/60: 2.38, PP xGF/60: 8.95
2018-19: CF 49.71%, CFrel,+3.07, xGF% 48.93%. xGFrel +1.73, GF% 41.83%, pp/60: 0.91, xGF/60: 2.27, PP xGF/60: 8.20
2021-22: CF 41.59%, CFrel, -0.73, xGF% 41.87%. xGFrel +0.79, GF% 42.68%, pp/60: 1.35, xGF/60: 2.17, PP xGF/60: 6.08

TDA consistently has a much higher GF% than xGF%, once, like Ghost in 2017-18 is probably a fluke, three full seasons suggests he's one of those players who is better than metrics suggest, probably because the team scores more than expected with him on the ice.


Other than JVR, who could you trade at the TDL?
Teams that get those 1st pick hauls at the TDL are usually moving expiring contracts.

Teams buying are playoff teams that are usually up against the cap and don't want to take on term unless it's an elite player, and you'd have to take a bad contract or two back (see Schenn/Lehtera).

A smart team would understand where they are in relation to the rest of the league, and be willing to move players actually worth a damn - instead of resigning a core primarily made up of secondary players at every chance.

The flyers of course don’t ever truly rebuild now do they? What sane person is going to believe the propaganda that they rebuilt getting an 8th OA, and trading JVR/Braun.

Dogshit org more concerned with protecting a prehistoric identity, and the long held jobs of incompetent men. Team success is not the goal here.

 

[Striiker]

We’re not pretending that top pair is working just because we won three games, while the team - definitely including them - is getting utterly dominated every night, right?

That pair has not been good, by the eye test or stats. People (not me) are already on Provorovs ass in every GDT too.

Of our three pairs, the top pair has the worst xGF%, highest shot attempts against per 60, highest shots against per 60, and highest expected goals against per 60.

We’re not seeing anything even remotely similar to the Provorov-Ghost pair.

 

[captainpaxil]

We’re not pretending that top pair is working just because we won three games, while the team - definitely including them - is getting utterly dominated every night, right?

That pair has not been good, by the eye test or stats. People (not me) are already on Provorovs ass in every GDT too.

Of our three pairs, the top pair has the worst xGF%, highest shot attempts against per 60, highest shots against per 60, and highest expected goals against per 60.

We’re not seeing anything even remotely similar to the Provorov-Ghost pair.

See that's a useful example of statistics. I am honestly surprised by this. What's the high danger look like.

 

[ajgoal]

We’re not pretending that top pair is working just because we won three games, while the team - definitely including them - is getting utterly dominated every night, right?

That pair has not been good, by the eye test or stats. People (not me) are already on Provorovs ass in every GDT too.

Of our three pairs, the top pair has the worst xGF%, highest shot attempts against per 60, highest shots against per 60, and highest expected goals against per 60.

We’re not seeing anything even remotely similar to the Provorov-Ghost pair.

Provorov/DeAngelo: 59:43 TOI / 42.47% SF / 36.07 CF% / 66.67 GF% / 34.31 xGF% / 37.50 HDCF% / 33.33 SCF% /
12.90 on-ice Shooting% / 95.24 on-ice save% (Small sample so far)

Provorov/Gostisbehere (over two seasons): 1009:07 TOI / 54.45 SF% / 52.49 CF% / 49.45 GF% / 51.96 xGF% / 53.96 HDCF% / 52.66 SCF% / 8.65 on-ice Shooting% / 89.43 on-ice save%

More context: P/G numbers definitely dipped from 2017-2018 to 2018-2019, but most stayed between 49.5% and 53%, with exception of GF%, which was dragged down due to an on-ice shooting % of 5.93 and an on ice save % of 85.83. The team scored 8 goals and had 17 against while the pair was on the ice (250:52). Only 6 of those were goals from in close, despite HD attempts being relatively even (47 for/49 against)

 

[Beef Invictus]

We’re not pretending that top pair is working just because we won three games, while the team - definitely including them - is getting utterly dominated every night, right?

That pair has not been good, by the eye test or stats. People (not me) are already on Provorovs ass in every GDT too.

Of our three pairs, the top pair has the worst xGF%, highest shot attempts against per 60, highest shots against per 60, and highest expected goals against per 60.

We’re not seeing anything even remotely similar to the Provorov-Ghost pair.

Confusion often reigns defensively between those two, and it's hardly just TDA's fault.

 

[bennysflyers16]

I need Ghostbeer to describe my putting stroke before I go blow another $450 on a new putter.

 

[Beef Invictus]

TDA is a more talented but less defensive responsible version of 2017-18 Ghost, he's also feistier, similar to TK.
If you want to credit Slavin with his Carolina success, go back to his Ranger season with Staal as his partner.

2018-19: CF 45.61%, CFrel,+0.55, xGF% 47.86%. xGFrel +1.01, GF% 54.80%, pp/60: 1.09, xGF/60: 2.56, PP xGF/60: 7.55
2019-20: CF 48.09%, CFrel +1.94, xGF% 47.24%, xGFrel +0.81, GF% 57.16%, pp/60: 1.74, xGF/60: 2.65, PP xgF/60: 8.12
2021-22: CF 56.06%, CFrel -1.34, xGF% 56.13%, xGFrel +1.50, GF% 66.71%, pp/60: 1.50, xGF/60: 3.31, PP xGF/60: 8.68

Ghost:
2016-17: CF 52.25%, CFrel,+1.88, xGF% 49.95%. xGFrel -0.09, GF% 36.95%, pp/60: 0.49, xGF/60: 2.27, PP xGF/60: 9.96
2017-18: CF 51.36%, CFrel,+2.15, xGF% 51.81%. xGFrel +3.47, GF% 58.03%, pp/60: 1.06, xGF/60: 2.38, PP xGF/60: 8.95
2018-19: CF 49.71%, CFrel,+3.07, xGF% 48.93%. xGFrel +1.73, GF% 41.83%, pp/60: 0.91, xGF/60: 2.27, PP xGF/60: 8.20
2021-22: CF 41.59%, CFrel, -0.73, xGF% 41.87%. xGFrel +0.79, GF% 42.68%, pp/60: 1.35, xGF/60: 2.17, PP xGF/60: 6.08

TDA consistently has a much higher GF% than xGF%, once, like Ghost in 2017-18 is probably a fluke, three full seasons suggests he's one of those players who is better than metrics suggest, probably because the team scores more than expected with him on the ice.


Other than JVR, who could you trade at the TDL?
Teams that get those 1st pick hauls at the TDL are usually moving expiring contracts.

Teams buying are playoff teams that are usually up against the cap and don't want to take on term unless it's an elite player, and you'd have to take a bad contract or two back (see Schenn/Lehtera).

I'd say it's due to TDA's breakout passing. He can hit some homerun transition passes for quick sudden goals.

 

[Flyer lurker]

But at least flyers got 44
Congrats Okcar

 

[FLYguy3911]

Those unis f***.

 

[Magua]

Do you think Deslauriers will get a 100 point tweet? He's at 85 points right now. I'm thinking the 2nd half of next season, age 33.

 

[Striiker]

See that's a useful example of statistics. I am honestly surprised by this. What's the high danger look like.

High Danger Shots Attempts Against per 60

Provorov-TDA - 20.09
Sanheim-Braun - 9.28
Seeler-Zamula - 14.12

 

[Striiker]

Confusion often reigns defensively between those two, and it's hardly just TDA's fault.

Definitely. Both are an issue.

That's what I said in the offseason too. People think plugging TDA into that spot will give Provorov the same results as with Ghost just because both are small, skilled defensemen. Nope, that's not how this works and that's not why the Provorov-Ghost pair worked.

They worked because Ghost is great offensively, great in transition, competent defensively, and has proven to be able to drive play and carry partners, even with awful guy like Hagg, Manning, or the AHLers on the Coyotes.

TDA isn't able to do that and he's as unreliable defensively as people pretend Ghost is, so that pair was doomed from the start. The only way they were staying above water was if they were glued to Couturier, which obviously hasn't been an option.

 

[Hextallent63]

If DeAngelo keeps playing like he has so far, why on Earth would you trade him? He's been terrific.

im not going to lie, he is playing alot better in the defensive zone then i thought he could so far, small sample and all. hes using his body well, cutting off lanes and not playing too bad positionally. although he gets to be reaching every once in a while, not as much and provo though.

High Danger Shots Attempts Against per 60

Provorov-TDA - 20.09
Sanheim-Braun - 9.28
Seeler-Zamula - 14.12

ice time though right? or is tht worked in there too?

 

[Striiker]

im not going to lie, he is playing alot better in the defensive zone then i thought he could so far, small sample and all. hes using his body well, cutting off lanes and not playing too bad positionally. although he gets to be reaching every once in a while, not as much and provo though.


ice time though right? or is tht worked in there too?

Those numbers are "per 60 minutes of icetime at 5v5".

It breaks down like this:

Provorov-TDA
59:43 at 5v5 together
20 High Danger Attempts Against
20.09 HDCA/60

Sanheim-Braun
51:43 at 5v5 together
8 High Danger Attempts Against
9.28 HDCA/60

Seeler-Zamula
42:30 at 5v5 together
10 High Danger Attempts Against
14.12 HDCA/60