Speculation: 2022-23 Roster Thread Part II

[bsu]

Zellweger is even less ready than Drysdale was.

Which isn't a knock on either, it's just the reality of kids usually not being able to make the leap from juniors to NHL so quickly.

Exactly.

 

[gilfaizon]

Disagree on Zellweger being less ready than Drysdale. The WHL is a much more two-way oriented league than the OHL is. Zellweger also has the advantage from playing an extra year in this league. HockeyDB lists Jamie at 5'11 and Olen at 5'9, but i find it hard to believe that Jamie is two inches taller. They weigh roughly the same if "size" is the reasoning for Olen not being ready.

I feel like some may be surprised with how quickly Olen will get here. He's a really special talent, and while he will need some AHL experience, I don't think it will be too long before he is up with the big team.

 

[Leonardo87]

Disagree on Zellweger being less ready than Drysdale. The WHL is a much more two-way oriented league than the OHL is. Zellweger also has the advantage from playing an extra year in this league. HockeyDB lists Jamie at 5'11 and Olen at 5'9, but i find it hard to believe that Jamie is two inches taller. They weigh roughly the same if "size" is the reasoning for Olen not being ready.

I feel like some may be surprised with how quickly Olen will get here. He's a really special talent, and while he will need some AHL experience, I don't think it will be too long before he is up with the big team.

I don’t like seeing players rushed, but if they are ready to take the next step no reason to hold them back.

McTavish for one example was not going to accomplish anything more in juniors, AHL was not an option of course, some folks thought we were rushing him. He is 3rd in rookie scoring , pacing around 45-50 points on a very bad Ducks team with no offense. That to me is beyond impressive.

With that said like Zellweger to go to the AHL next season, should be eligible I believe, and if he does very well there, then he’ll get a chance at the big club. Also like to see Pastujov also go to the Gulls as well next season, if he’s eligible.

I hope they fix the Gulls next season. Is it coaching? Depth? Injuries? I don’t watch the games.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

Have proper depth in place so that you are only penciling one rookie D into the lineup heading into camp, snag another younger D off waivers if none of them look ready.

Andersson maybe starts at the top of list being older and no longer waiver exempt next year. Hinds, Zellweger, Mintyukov, Thrun*, Lacombe*, Helleson etc, may all put up varying levels of competition depending on their development over the next 8 months prior to and including camp. But you operate under the assumption they need time to adjust to the pro game and force them to prove otherwise.

 

[FiveHoleTickler]

I don’t like seeing players rushed, but if they are ready to take the next step no reason to hold them back.

McTavish for one example was not going to accomplish anything more in juniors, AHL was not an option of course, some folks thought we were rushing him. He is 3rd in rookie scoring , pacing around 45-50 points on a very bad Ducks team with no offense. That to me is beyond impressive.

With that said like Zellweger to go to the AHL next season, should be eligible I believe, and if he does very well there, then he’ll get a chance at the big club. Also like to see Pastujov also go to the Gulls as well next season, if he’s eligible.

I hope they fix the Gulls next season. Is it coaching? Depth? Injuries? I don’t watch the games.

He really has been a pleasant surprise. Given how much hockey he played last year, I wasn't sure if he would fare too well jumping right into the NHL so young.

He hasn't been without his struggles, but I've also been very impressed.

 

[Gliff]

Bruh if we start Zellweger in the NHL next season ima be pissed. I guess they didn't learn their lesson with Drysdale.

Didn’t you argue for Drysdale to be in the NHL over back to juniors?

 

[bsu]

Didn’t you argue for Drysdale to be in the NHL over back to juniors?

I argued we rushed Drysdale and possibly stunted his growth, he was in over his head from day 1. Even paired with one of the best defensive defensemen in the world I can't remember the exact number but it was something like Hampus was even and Drysdale was like -22 I believe... paired together.. I never like rushing prospects. Seems like we "Fowlered" him a bit, and now he has an injury that could hinder him for the rest of his career.

 

[Gliff]

I argued we rushed Drysdale and possibly stunted his growth, he was in over his head from day 1. Even paired with one of the best defensive defensemen in the world I can't remember the exact number but it was something like Hampus was even and Drysdale was like -22 I believe... paired together.. I never like rushing prospects. Seems like we "Fowlered" him a bit, and now he has an injury that could hinder him for the rest of his career.

I could have sworn you felt that there was no reason to send him back to the WJ and juniors after. Anyways, 100% agree. Drysdale should have gone back to juniors last year.

Zellweger and Minty should spent atleast a full season in the AHL.

 

[Ducks DVM]

Verbeek on our D prospects 12/1/22 : Verbeek Discusses Ducks Early Struggles, Looks Ahead to Future Plans

On defensive prospect and 2021 third-round pick Tyson Hinds
Tyson's had a really good year. When he came into camp, I hadn't seen this player before and I was very impressed with him. Six-foot-three kid that can really move. His game is that of a simple one. With his skill and how he moves the puck simply, he doesn't try to handle it too much, which is perfect in the NHL. That's what you really want. He's a really good defender, and I've been really impressed with his hockey sense. There's a quiet side, an underrated offensive side to his game that, when I watched him about 10 days ago, I was really impressed with. I'm really excited for him for next year.

On defensive prospect and 2020 third-round pick Ian Moore
Ian's in his second year at Harvard. I've seen him a little bit before playing with the [U.S U-18 team]. Six- foot-three and very, very mobile defender. He's another kid that you would like to see be a little more offensive because he does have really good hockey sense. At some point I would like to see him make a jump there from his offensive side. He's a good prospect.

On defensive prospect, and 2022 first-round pick, Pavel Mintyukov
Pavel's really having a great year in the OHL. He's a gifted kid offensively and really smart. His hockey sense is, I would put it pretty close to excellent. He really didn't show the type of player he was at rookie camp. I think he was kind of feeling his way through it. I could see him and, and Noah being partners one day in the future. For him, there are things that he needs to improve on structurally in his defensive game, but he competes, which is really good. We're going to need to add a little more structure to his game defensively though. There are certain things in his game he won't be able to get away with at the NHL level.

On defensive prospect and 2021 second-round pick Olen Zellweger
I just finished watching Olen. He's very fast. He can lead attack and can really come from behind and join the rush. He was very good the other night with his first pass, making quick plays. I think that he is a potential power play guy and he does a really good job of getting shots through. As I just mentioned with Pavel, these offensive guys I'm not worried about it because, while they can get away with this stuff in junior, they're smart enough and dedicated enough to really work at their game defensively. Olen's the same thing. He's going to have to put a lot more structure into his defensive game.

On unsigned college prospects Henry Thrun and Jackson Lacombe
Those two guys have played really well this year. I haven't had a chance to watch Henry yet, but our guys are. [Director of Player Personnel] Mike Stapleton and a few of our other scouts were watching [Harvard] play Michigan this past weekend. Henry had a really good game and so did Ian [Moore]. Both of them had really good games. With [Lacombe], the college game is really easy for him. I mean, he's an excellent skater. He's moving up the ice, but no one can catch him. That's how strong a skater he is. So those two guys, we certainly want to get them started with their pro career and they will have the decision whether they want to sign with us or not. That's the tough thing about being fourth year in college, they can decide not to sign with us.

The kids are not coming to Anaheim terribly soon.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

Disagree on Zellweger being less ready than Drysdale. The WHL is a much more two-way oriented league than the OHL is. Zellweger also has the advantage from playing an extra year in this league. HockeyDB lists Jamie at 5'11 and Olen at 5'9, but i find it hard to believe that Jamie is two inches taller. They weigh roughly the same if "size" is the reasoning for Olen not being ready.

I feel like some may be surprised with how quickly Olen will get here. He's a really special talent, and while he will need some AHL experience, I don't think it will be too long before he is up with the big team.

GMPV denoted that Zellweger and Mintyukov needed to work on their defensive structure in an article this season.

Defensively, Drysdale is year(s) ahead of Zellweger. Drysdale won rookie of the month in the AHL over Zegras. The jump from the AHL to the NHL is a much larger leap than Drydale's junior to AHL jump, thanks in part to his defense.

The situation coming into this off-season and Drysdales D+1 season are vastly different situaitons. Drysdale's defensive talent surpassed every prospect on the pro side, but we still started him off at the AHL level. In his 24 NHL game stint, Drysdale looked good for three games and then hung on for dear life. Last year, his body withstood the grind for a full 82-game season as he participated in 81 games.

Zellweger is coming into a situation on the pro side where the NHL club is in dire need of defensive D-men and there is going to be a slew of blueline talent joining him, especially if the college boys sign. Let's assume all NHL RFA players are extended in Drysdale and Benoit, then that means we have five defensemen under contract. If the team extends UFA Shattenkirk, then that's six defensemen under contract. Contractually, there is one or two spots at the NHL level. Fowler, Drysdale, and Shatty are your OFDs.

Coming in with LD/RD Zell to the pro side could be NCAA LD/RD LaCombe, NCAA LD Thrun, CHL LD Hinds, and CHL LD Mintyukov. 6'2 LaCombe and 6'2 Thrun are considered two-way D, with LaCombe having similar speed like Zell. 6'3 Hinds is a shutdown type D who plays similar to Lindholm's defensive game, but Hinds also has been developing his offense. 6'1 Minty is like Zell, amazing offensive weapons that need to develop defensively.

Finally, we have two defensive prospects who have been developing in the AHL for a bit in RD Andersson and RD Helleson. Andersson is a two-way guy whose defense has continued to improve year after year. He's a +5 on a San Diego team full of negative plus/minus ratings. Helleson is still learning how to play defense despite being known for his defense by Verbeek. Helleson is a -19, but he is producing offense with 12 points.

Anaheim has more talent going into the pro side next season that there isn't a straight line path for Zellweger to make the jump right out of camp. Drysdale couldn't make it onto the NHL club right out of camp; he had to prove he could play in the AHL first.

I believe we all know Zell is a special offensive talent and we're going to need to develop that talent well along with the other blueliners if we're ever going to bust out of the basement in the next few years. In the mean time, let Zell and Minty learn how to play defense in the AHL to where they're not a significant liability on NHL ice.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

I argued we rushed Drysdale and possibly stunted his growth, he was in over his head from day 1. Even paired with one of the best defensive defensemen in the world I can't remember the exact number but it was something like Hampus was even and Drysdale was like -22 I believe... paired together.. I never like rushing prospects. Seems like we "Fowlered" him a bit, and now he has an injury that could hinder him for the rest of his career.

Drysdale was rushed to top-4 duties, but not rushed to the NHL level. The injury is just terrible luck.

Zegras was -21 last year sheltered. Zegras is -22 so far this season while linemate Rico is -1. Was/is Zegras Fowler'd too?

.
.
=== Read on for in-depth reasoning ===

Key: D+# means draft year + season played after draft year.

In only 14 AHL games, Drysdale proved he could thrive at that level of competition with winning Rookie of the Month over Zegras as his teammate as proof in his D+1 season. He earned a promotion to the NHL and played 24 games. Drysdale looked very good for his first few games, then the grind of the NHL got to him.

My expectations for Drysdale's full rookie season in the NHL, D+2 season, is he not look overwhelmed for 80% of the games played like he did in his previous season's 24 NHL game stint. Mission accomplished. Drysdale finished 13th overall in rookie scoring with 32 points and 8th overall on team scoring.

This season would be Drysdale's D+3 season and it looked like he figured out the next step at the NHL level about 6 games into the season. Then he got injured in game 8. The odd part is Drysdale looked more beefier coming into this season than the previous season. If Drysdale were to incur a long term injury, then it would have been in his D+2 season. Getting a season ending injury this year is just bad luck.

 

[Kalv]

I think both Lacombe and Zellweger routinely play the right side. Whether they'll be successful at it as a pro I have no idea, but it's nice to know they have a lot of experience at it.

Hinds too

 

[Rooch]

Wondering what the group here expects from the trade deadline, which is one month from tomorrow. Will Verbeek be active in shedding more contracts or will he play it more conservatively and only deal expiring contracts?

 

[MMC]

Wondering what the group here expects from the trade deadline, which is one month from tomorrow. Will Verbeek be active in shedding more contracts or will he play it more conservatively and only deal expiring contracts?

Just my prediction

Gone:
Klingberg
Kulikov
Stolarz

Will be shopped and moved if we get the right offer:
Henrique
Shattenkirk (if they can't agree on extension)
Jones
Comtois
Moore (LTIR space)

Likely not 100% unattainable but would need an overwhelming offer:
Gibson
Fowler
Vaakanainen
Benoit
Vatrano

Not going anywhere:
Zegras
McTavish
Terry
Drysdale
Strome
Lundestrom
Silfverberg (unmovable)

Likely valueless but who knows who contenders want as depth:
Grant
Carrick
Megna
Leason
Beaulieu
White

 

[MMC]

Theres also the possibility that PV gets an idea before the deadline that Thrun/LaCombe aren’t interested in signing here and shops their rights, but no reason so far to think that’s the case

 

[gilfaizon]

Theres also the possibility that PV gets an idea before the deadline that Thrun/LaCombe aren’t interested in signing here and shops their rights, but no reason so far to think that’s the case

They can be traded after the deadline as well, I doubt the deadline is much of a "deadline" for PV regarding those two.

 

[GreatBear]

Likely valueless but who knows who contenders want as depth:
Grant
Carrick
Megna
Leason
Beaulieu
White

If the Ducks are lucky they might land a 5th or 6th round draft choice for one of these players.

 

[MMC]

No replacement by the looks of it

 

[Hockey Duckie]

We might call up a forward since Terry incurred an UBI with the extra spot Vaaks left open. Hmmm... Maybe Grant slots back in, since we've read reports that he joined the club on the road trip and might make an appearance in Chicago.

 

[Kalv]

No replacement by the looks of it

Depends how long he's out and how soon we trade Klingberg, Kulikov, and (if) Shatty, but we might need some callups. MDZ is deserving, but will we do that or will we give a chance to the young guys (Andersson, Heleson), I wonder.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

No replacement by the looks of it

Is there reason to hold onto any hope of this guy becoming something of consequence? I know it's hard to have a perfect read due to all the injuries and our team being a tire fire defensively, but he'll turn 25 halfway through next season and isn't teasing any level of success. To this point he hasn't shown any more than similar aged D we can sign off the scrap heap (ie White).

For me, Vaak lacks identity. If you don't have any standout physical or offensive qualities, you have to be notably steady and reliable. Vaak is just sort of out there when healthy.

 

[DavidBL]

Is there reason to hold onto any hope of this guy becoming something of consequence? I know it's hard to have a perfect read due to all the injuries and our team being a tire fire defensively, but he'll turn 25 halfway through next season and isn't teasing any level of success. To this point he hasn't shown any more than similar aged D we can sign off the scrap heap (ie White).

For me, Vaak lacks identity. If you don't have any standout physical or offensive qualities, you have to be notably steady and reliable. Vaak is just sort of out there when healthy.

I don't ever really notice Vaaks which is typically good for a D man. At the end of they day there isn't really a long term home for him here if we hit on our prospects. Just between Benoit Minty and Zell he probably gets pushed out of the lineup and Benoit brings other attributes we need to the blueline. Unless he has a big developmental leap he seems like a solid 3rd pairing guy. Useful until other guys are ready.

 

[MMC]

I think the most depressing thing about this year's roster as a whole, at least to me, is Comtois and Jones looking like they won't be anything more than 4th liners. Was really hoping they would be the type of wingers that could compliment our young scoring centers in the NHL while producing at a decent rate themselves.

 

[Leonardo87]

I think the most depressing thing about this year's roster as a whole, at least to me, is Comtois and Jones looking like they won't be anything more than 4th liners. Was really hoping they would be the type of wingers that could compliment our young scoring centers in the NHL while producing at a decent rate themselves.

Yeah, I've been a little supportive of Comtois hoping he'd find a way back to that productive season he had, but it is not looking too good. Jones is just there and once in a blue moon finds the back of the net, too inconsistent.

Like you said, we need guys to support Terry, Zegras, and McTavish. Right now that best player for that has been Rico who just turned 33 yo. Happy about Rico, but we need younger support around our young core. Vatrano has been coming along better as of late, but need more from our stop gaps, but also need more from these younger players as well.

This is why it is critical to get a Top 3 pick in this draft. On top of some other guys coming up like maybe Groulx and Regenda. We need to change things up now. Jones and Comtois just aren't getting it done.

 

[MMC]

Yeah, I've been a little supportive of Comtois hoping he'd find a way back to that productive season he had, but it is not looking too good. Jones is just there and once in a blue moon finds the back of the net, too inconsistent.

Like you said, we need guys to support Terry, Zegras, and McTavish. Right now that best player for that has been Rico who just turned 33 yo. Happy about Rico, but we need younger support around our young core. Vatrano has been coming along better as of late, but need more from our stop gaps, but also need more from these younger players as well.

This is why it is critical to get a Top 3 pick in this draft. On top of some other guys coming up like maybe Groulx and Regenda. We need to change things up now. Jones and Comtois just aren't getting it done.

Even though he had no assists the 4 goals in 15 games before the injury had me hopeful that he would be able to at least score 10-20 goals in our top 9 while being willing to drop the gloves but the 0 goals in 24 games since scoring in his first game off the IL on December 6th, while playing in the top 6 for many of those games is really disappointing. At this point he's unfortunately probably playing his way into getting non-tendered