2022/23 Roster Thread II: Worth Every Penny

[LegionOfDoom91]

DP checking in

Betterfitkinson was an underrated horrible move from the start

I don’t even know what or if there even is a market right now for Atkinson but if there was I doubt they’d move him. As I think they foolishly think he’s a key cog here now.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Remember when he signed and there was a common complaint that he got too much AAV? That keeping the term down was less important? If they think 1/7 is tough to move, imagine 2/12.

Imagine posting on one page how rare it is for a player to be traded with two years left and then on the next one saying that if Atkinson has another good year he’s movable next year.

 

[mja]

JVR is gone, next summer Hayes is 3x7 with the cap rising by 2024, so if he has a good year he's moveable if Gauthier is ready, Atkinson 2 years left, if he has another good year he's moveable.

Even Risto, if Torts gets him to play a more disciplined game, wouldn't be hard to move with 4x5, maybe retain $1M or take a veteran D-man back.

Ellis is either healthy or LTIR, Couts should be 100% so why would you want to move him at $7.5M?
Sanheim will either be extended or traded by the TDL.
DeAngelo will only have one year left on his deal.

Coming off last season, the bigger contracts are hard to move, but last season was a shitshow, if Torts gets this team playing "normal" hockey a lot of players will look more attractive - but teams will wait and see.

You crack me right the hell up. There's no way this front office is doing any of this. They're trying to trade JVR just so they can launch into a different bad contract. Hayes is unmoveable. Risto is unmoveable. Couturier is your best bet for a trade chip to get value and clear space, along with Provorov, Sanheim, and TK.

There's a third option for Sanheim. I don't think there's a chance in hell he extends. The writing is on the wall and he's out of here, but if we're close to a playoff spot, we'll hang onto him rather than trade him, because we HAVE to make the playoffs. Then we lose him for nothing in the off-season.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Imagine posting on one page how rare it is for a player to be traded with two years left and then on the next one saying that if Atkinson has another good year he’s movable next year.

I know what you're saying, but the only thought in my head is that if Ryan Ellis shows proof of life, I think he might be tradeable in 4 more years.

I couldn't even make a shitty Shea Weber joke here because Ellis has an extra season.

 

[Magua]

They had JvR at 50% retention last summer into this season up to the deadline & they weren’t getting much bites according to Charlie & ASF. Teams wanted an asset even back then.

According those guys as well Seattle wanted an asset to select JvR at the expansion draft too.

Does anyone really believe that JVR at $5 mil for 1 season can't produce 25 goals and 50 points, with some managed play-driving ability, on a team with real structure and roster sensibility? Visually, I didn't really see a difference from his 62 point pace the year prior. He graded out as one of the best in relTM stats in the couple years before this one. It was a perfect storm of one of the worst offenses in the league, with horrific centers, no transition play, and the worst PP in the league. JVR can be a line/PP accelerator, but there is not a worse environment to utilize his strengths and flaunt his flaws.

Moving contracts is a lot about optics. The Flyers are so bad at that part. You can practically smell their disdain for certain players; they lower their usage and sink their value and air dirty laundry for seemingly no self-serving motive. Even if you want to dump someone, they don't grasp the idea of pumping them first. It's not a creative league, and what one team believes, other teams are willing to believe. Gostisbehere was a perfect encapsulation of it. And even if a few teams do plausibly want JVR, they know the Flyers are desperate, so what's the rush? Their asset management is a horror show.

 

[deadhead]

I don’t even know what or if there even is a market right now for Atkinson but if there was I doubt they’d move him. As I think they foolishly think he’s a key cog here now.

Well, it makes sense for Torts to want one of his guys on the team his first season here.
But Torts isn't sentimental about players, if he thinks one of the kids is better, he'll play over Atkinson.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

I know what you're saying, but the only thought in my head is that if Ryan Ellis shows proof of life, I think he might be tradeable in 4 more years.

I couldn't even make a shitty Shea Weber joke here because Ellis has an extra season.

Friggin Hextall.

 

[deadhead]

Imagine posting on one page how rare it is for a player to be traded with two years left and then on the next one saying that if Atkinson has another good year he’s movable next year.

At the TDL.

Players with term are traded in the summer all the time.

 

[mja]

W/ all these bad contracts, Fletcher actually out Homered Homer.

If a new GM took over today and committed to rebuilding he'd have a worse cap situation than when Hextall took over.

It's not even close, and Holmgren at least left Hextall with prime Giroux, Jake, Couturier, Simmonds, etc. to build around.

 

[Adam Warlock]

They had JvR available this past deadline too. Nobody wanted him without an asset attached then too. That’s directly from both Charlie & ASF.

This isn’t me defending Fletcher. This is just the reality of the situation he himself created that teams have & continue to squeeze him for salary/cap relief.

I dont think they were willing to retain for this upcomming season though.

But if Charlie and Ant are right...the signing Risto was even dumber. Where did he expect to get cap space from?

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

You crack me right the hell up. There's no way this front office is doing any of this. They're trying to trade JVR just so they can launch into a different bad contract. Hayes is unmoveable. Risto is unmoveable. Couturier is your best bet for a trade chip to get value and clear space, along with Provorov, Sanheim, and TK.

There's a third option for Sanheim. I don't think there's a chance in hell he extends. The writing is on the wall and he's out of here, but if we're close to a playoff spot, we'll hang onto him rather than trade him, because we HAVE to make the playoffs. Then we lose him for nothing in the off-season.

Fletcher & Flahr liked Ristolainen going back to their days in Minnesota. They still really liked Ristolainen then/now in Philadelphia. Charlie said they along with everybody else in the front office really like(d) Ristolainen. There was just some slight hesitancy in regards to the cap situation but Fletcher came back to he really likes the player & so does everybody else in the front office picture so let’s get this done.

So what would happen between March & now that has Fletcher somehow completely souring on Ristolainen & trading him before his new extension even starts?

 

[mja]

Moving contracts is a lot about optics. The Flyers are so bad at that part. You can practically smell their disdain for certain players; they lower their usage and sink their value and air dirty laundry for seemingly no self-serving motive. Even if you want to dump someone, they don't grasp the idea of pumping them first. It's not a creative league, and what one team believes, other teams are willing to believe. Gostisbehere was a perfect encapsulation of it. And even if a few teams do plausibly want JVR, they know the Flyers are desperate, so what's the rush? Their asset management is a horror show.

I've tried to express a similar sentiment in the past, but you've put this much better than I ever have. It's the damnedest thing watching the team sabotage the value of their own freaking assets.

 

[DancingPanther]

I don’t even know what or if there even is a market right now for Atkinson but if there was I doubt they’d move him. As I think they foolishly think he’s a key cog here now.

Everyone they've identified as their core shouldn't be a part of their core anymore, but they're too stupid (and/or prideful) to realize it.

I'll make an exception for Hart. I'm on the trade everyone but Hart bandwagon, assuming of course Sanhero walks to another squad (and immediately puts up 50 pts)

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Moving contracts is a lot about optics. The Flyers are so bad at that part. You can practically smell their disdain for certain players; they lower their usage and sink their value for seemingly no reason. Even if you want to dump someone, they don't grasp the idea of pumping them first. It's not a creative league, and what one team believes, other teams are willing to believe. Gostisbehere was a perfect encapsulation of it. And even if a few teams do plausibly want JVR, they know the Flyers are desperate, so what's the rush? Their asset management is a horror show.

Bought low: Ellis, Niskanen maybe? They had some good points about how he was much better in the 2nd half than the 1st the previous year. Count Atkinson however you want? At absolute best, it's a wash to me because they sold low on the asset he cost.

Bought high: Hayes, Braun, Risto, DeAngelo, Hartman. I have no idea how to categorize Talbot. I will argue to the death that Laughton should count here as well.

Sold low: Voracek, Hagg, Gostisbehere, Stolarz, Simmonds, Gudas, JVR?

Sold high: I have some bad news.

Just by quantity of moves in each category, it's unsustainable.

 

[Curufinwe]

Also, with the signing of DeAngelo, Flyers basically have zero cap space. No room to bring back Ellis. Hell, Flyers don't have room to sign Frost, Allison or Tippett.

When Ellis goes on LTIR they will be able to have an ACSL of close to $82.5m. Tampa will be doing the same thing with Seabrook.

Thank You - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Thank you for the amazing 9 years

www.capfriendly.com

Friedman on 32 Thoughts said basically what we all know: everyone knows the Flyers are trying to move out salary and no one is making it easy.

And Marek repeated his claim that Philly will go after Deslauriers.

 

[landsbergfan]

Bought low: Ellis, Niskanen maybe? They had some good points about how he was much better in the 2nd half than the 1st the previous year. Count Atkinson however you want? At absolute best, it's a wash to me because they sold low on the asset he cost.

Bought high: Hayes, Braun, Risto, DeAngelo, Hartman. I have no idea how to categorize Talbot.

Sold low: Voracek, Hagg, Gostisbehere, Stolarz, Simmonds, Gudas, JVR?

Sold high: Rubstov

maybe Patrick too

 

[DancingPanther]

Bought low: Ellis, Niskanen maybe? They had some good points about how he was much better in the 2nd half than the 1st the previous year. Count Atkinson however you want? At absolute best, it's a wash to me because they sold low on the asset he cost.

Bought high: Hayes, Braun, Risto, DeAngelo, Hartman. I have no idea how to categorize Talbot. I will argue to the death that Laughton should count here as well.

Sold low: Voracek, Hagg, Gostisbehere, Stolarz, Simmonds, Gudas, JVR?

Sold high: I have some bad news.

Just by quantity of moves in each category, it's unsustainable.

Maybe that's just it. Maybe Fletcher only sells while he's high

 

[JojoTheWhale]

maybe Patrick too

I want to be completely honest with you. I didn't even know Rubtsov was no longer their property. I don't care enough to follow that stuff anymore. Thank you for the help.

Patrick is tough. I could see categorizing it as both high and low. Rubtsov could not have had any actual trade value.

 

[landsbergfan]

I want to be completely honest with you. I didn't even know Rubtsov was no longer their property. I don't care enough to follow that stuff anymore. Thank you for the help.

Patrick is tough. I could see categorizing it as both high and low. Rubtsov could not have had any actual trade value.

haha I know...it was just a joke. He was part of the Giroux trade to clear a contract slot so we could sign Cal OReilly again. He wasn't qualified by Florida

I remember all the leaks that came out before the actual Patrick trade about how he wanted to be traded, he was a bad teammate, yadda yadda. They made sure to run his name through the mud before they actually found a partner to trade him. So although he still had the value of possibly turning things around with head injuries behind him...they made sure even that value was as low as possible

 

[Ghosts Beer]

I’m not seeing where the Flyers are as cap strapped this summer as people are saying.

Per cap friendly, Flyers current projected cap hit is $82.3M

On July 13, they can put Ellis on LTIR. That saves $6.25M

Plus, they can exceed the cap by 10% in the off-season.

So that means the off-season cap is 90.75M

Flyers minus Ellis are at $76M.

They have room to sign him.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Deslauries would make sense in the Flyers misguided way(s).

I remember Charlie said Ristolainen was acquired/extended & same with MacEwen on the basis the organization noticed fans complained how the Flyers weren’t tough anymore & easy to play against. More importantly though the alumni in & out of the front office agreed with that sentiment. So that’s how those things were birthed.

 

[Curufinwe]

If they can't get JG maybe they go after Palat.

haha I know...it was just a joke. He was part of the Giroux trade to clear a contract slot so we could sign Cal OReilly again. He wasn't qualified by Florida

COR is on an AHL deal.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Our 4th line is gonna be sick.

 

[landsbergfan]

COR is on an AHL deal.

lol thanks for the audit. It was a joke. (it was actually so they could sign Hayden Hodgson)

 

[deadhead]

Bought low: Ellis, Niskanen maybe? They had some good points about how he was much better in the 2nd half than the 1st the previous year. Count Atkinson however you want? At absolute best, it's a wash to me because they sold low on the asset he cost.

Bought high: Hayes, Braun, Risto, DeAngelo, Hartman. I have no idea how to categorize Talbot. I will argue to the death that Laughton should count here as well.

Sold low: Voracek, Hagg, Gostisbehere, Stolarz, Simmonds, Gudas, JVR?

Sold high: I have some bad news.

Just by quantity of moves in each category, it's unsustainable.

How could you sell Voracek low? Seattle didn't want him for free. Negative value with 3 years at $8.25M.
Ghost went for market price to dump contract (now whether he should have been dumped . . .)
Hagg had negative value, at least according to this board.
Simmonds wasn't sold low, he was sold too late.
Gudas wasn't sold low, he's a career 3RD. And was exposed in this year's playoffs.