2022/23 Roster Thread II: Worth Every Penny

[LegionOfDoom91]

The 9MM QO straight to UFA option is correct. He’s got leverage for days.

So yeah his agent knew what he was doing with that negotiation. I’m sure DeBrincat had long term deals on the table back then too. So it’s hard for me to think they’re going to divert from the long game unless really enticed.

That $9M contract would be more than half of what he earned in contracts up to that point. Pending some crazy circumstance that goes beyond actual playing ability what risk really is there? How much is his stock really going to decrease in two years?

So this isn’t looking like a fruitful situation for anyone nonetheless a desperate organization with a lame duck GM who takes bathes in most negotiations even when the odds aren’t completely stacked against him?

 

[flyersnorth]

I could totally see

JVR, Konecny and Lindblom out.

JG and Kadri in.

Ellis LTIR'd.

Braun-type old veteran defenseman brought in to round out the top 4.

That might net us a decent 2023 pick actually.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

I should say Chicago’s current management does seem to have a grasp on age curves & contract value as we saw with the Hagel trade.

 

[deadhead]

Some of these moves seem to me to be PR, "we tried but the price was too high."

I still think the organization has failed to reach a consensus, Torts certainly sounds like a guy contented to play the guys he has and evaluate the team this season, the PTB still want an "aggressive reload," and Fletcher is somewhere in the middle.

I think Holmgren still thinks they can trade for the rights to Hartnell and Kimmo and magically create the cap room to sign them, thus negating the need to even think about a rebuild. And Holmgren/Clarke have Scott convinced there's an easy route to becoming a top team (and fill the seats) once again.

Right now I just have a healthy skepticism toward any rumor, does Torts really want a forward group with Atkinson, DeBrincat, TK and Frost in his top 9? Even TB has avoided going that small. And even if they decided they can pay for DeBrincat going forward by moving out Hayes, who the heck would be the 2C?

It's obvious their biggest needs are a young 2C and top 4 RHD, not an expensive sniper.
Ellis is a ??? Couts and Hayes turn 30.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

 

[Pantokrator]

Gauthier hands down.

The effect of DeBrincat would not be just the trade mentioned. It’s Risto all over again where the real pain comes with an extension they will have zero leverage in.

Everyone perhaps outside of Hart is kind of irrelevant on the current team. Any worthwhile future lies in the potential high end draft picks the team will have the next few years.

They need to be untouchable.

Right, because getting Debrincat will not put us over the top, and he will not be a 40 goal scorer with this team. So you are giving up potential and a real chance to stink for a player that will just be an above average player who will help us not stink as much keeping us irrelevent longer. Getting Debrincat is the Holmgren way of thinking, and we should avoid anything that smells of Holmgren.

 

[deadhead]

Well, I wouldn't assume DeBrincat wouldn't score 40 here, he'd be on a line with Couts and TK, - is that worse than Strome and Kane?

 

[CapnZin]

The issue with this trade idea (multiple 1st round picks, prospects, or a younger roster player) is the lack of team forecasting.

If we move Konecny + 5th + prospect or any situational equivalent, we have a serious opportunity cost discrepancy on our hands. We are taking on the same, if not more salary, on a cap strapped team, 2+ roster spots on a team with slim depth, and a rough negotiating period ahead as many have stated.

Does Konency, the 5th pick, a prospect, or any of the same not give us more than what Debrincat can under similar costs? I definitely think the combination of assets given up can produce more than what he can provide. Do we have a suitable system, complimentary linemates, and a suitable PowerPlay to give Debrincat what he needs for 30-40 goals? Think about it… we are giving up 2+ roster spots filled by ELCs and a ‘top tier’ asset in a top 5 pick for the same dollar cost of a player or LESS. It seems as if we are going to be paying more money for him to join us.

I’d love to have Debrincat as I think he’s really good, but I can’t imagine that it’s suitable. I’d much rather spend 9million and sell off salary that won’t cost us much. The opportunity cost of it all makes much more sense.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

This sure seems like an aggressive retool to me.

Thank god we heard for the last few months that based off of one PC Fletcher wasn’t going to do that because it fit a narrative.

 

[deadhead]

Let's see what actually happens. This time of year every crazy rumor has wings, every phone call between GMs is a "serious negotiation," and every agent is actively cultivating interest in his clients.

Just waiting for the Hagg rumors to start.

 

[DancingPanther]

The Flyers are not Debrincat away from being good. They're not even Debrincat + Gaudreau (considering the trade cost) from being good lol

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Let's see what actually happens. This time of year every crazy rumor has wings, every phone call between GMs is a "serious negotiation," and every agent is actively cultivating interest in his clients.

Just waiting for the Hagg rumors to start.

Why would you believe that the Flyers suddenly decided to change how they have operated for fifty years?

Hiring Tortorella was classic Flyers and these reports fall in line with classic Flyers moves.

 

[phil162888]

Trading away young assets and draft picks on a lottery team is beyond idiotic..... Gaudreau is the only move that makes some sense if he really was a dire hard Flyer fan and always wanted to be a Flyer... we need a playmaker and some skill...if he signs for a "home town" discount and we don't have to trade assets its a win.....if that miracle happens the Flyers should be pursuing a trade with the Flames for Tkachuk (he's as good as gone at that point) and in a case like that trading young assets like the 5th pick and TK etc would be a bold move.... if Johnny doesn't want to come here than go with what we have,,, best case the young guys surprise and we would start to build a new young core worse case we suck and we get a high lottery pick in the best draft in almost a decade...

Why would you believe that the Flyers suddenly decided to change how they have operated for fifty years?

Hiring Tortorella was classic Flyers and these reports fall in line with classic Flyers moves.

sad but 100% true

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

The Flyers are not Debrincat away from being good. They're not even Debrincat + Gaudreau (considering the trade cost) from being good lol

There are too many parts right now that have a massive tendancy to be bad enough to let whole goals in game in and game out. The fact that a good number are still around shows that nothing they add will overtake their bad, especially if they have to play those players.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

 

[TheKingPin]

I too am curious. Can I be an insider now.

This would be the biggest error and likely imo. He goes back to being Hayes level production and costing more.

 

[Curufinwe]

Bill used to have more credibility, but it all evaporated once he was on the team's payroll. Meltzer actually used to have pretty good insights back in the day.

Pre-payroll Meltzer used to talk about how good and important Nick Grossmann was. If you think he likes Risto cause he’s paid to, you’re wrong. He did it for free.

 

[renberg]

Probably everyone would rather DeBrincat, but the choice shouldn't be that simple.

It should be 5OA + other assets + DeBrincat needs to be paid vs. just drafting a Nemec, for example.

This is it in a nutshell. Instead of trading assets, of which the club has darn few, to get Debrincat, it would be better just to pony up the money for Gaudreau and keep the assets. Debrincat and $9M+ and then not have Jiricek, Frost, others as well as future picks or keep the assets and pay Gaudreau, a player who might really want to be here. I'd rather pay Gaudreau crazy money than go for Debrincat.
I was.am prepared for Fletcher to do some moves like possibly dealing Provorov for a young 2C and then TK for a defenseman to replace Provorov. These type of trades make some sort of sense. The sell the farm for Debrincat is beyond the pale.

 

[deadhead]

Kadri is exhibition A why you should be buyer beware with Colorado forwards - they play with Makar, Toews, Girard and Byrum, which is a good way to pad your stats since you'll both have more time in the O-zone and a defenseman on ice for most shifts who can feed you the puck.

For example, Kadri's first year in Col, 2.33 pp/60, his previous high in Toronto, 2.05.
Burakovsky, high in Wash 2.28, in Col 2.55, 2.54, 2.62
Nichushkin, high in Dal, 1.61, in Col 1.91, 1.55, 2.49

Pre-payroll Meltzer used to talk about how good and important Nick Grossmann was.

He was a decent D-man when you were still allowed to clutch, grab, hook and cross-check.

 

[Adam Warlock]

Its kind of hilarious that theyre wanna go big but cant bc they signed Risto.

If they had Ristos cap space and an extra pick from the return of trading him at the deadline....getting AD and JG would be a little more possible.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Its kind of hilarious that theyre wanna go big but cant bc they signed Risto.

If they had Ristos cap space and an extra pick from the return of trading him at the deadline....getting AD and JG would be a little more possible.

Who could have predicted such a thing?!

 

[Curufinwe]

Its kind of hilarious that theyre wanna go big but cant bc they signed Risto.

If they had Ristos cap space and an extra pick from the return of trading him at the deadline....getting AD and JG would be a little more possible.

yeah, the offers they got for him must have been trash.

 

[BiggE]

The Flyers are not Debrincat away from being good. They're not even Debrincat + Gaudreau (considering the trade cost) from being good lol

The Flyers are 3 players away from contention. Sadly, those 3 are Gretzky, Lemieux and Orr

 

[BrindamoursNose]

This is it in a nutshell. Instead of trading assets, of which the club has darn few, to get Debrincat, it would be better just to pony up the money for Gaudreau and keep the assets. Debrincat and $9M+ and then not have Jiricek, Frost, others as well as future picks or keep the assets and pay Gaudreau, a player who might really want to be here. I'd rather pay Gaudreau crazy money than go for Debrincat.

Exactly.

We're just not a good fit for DeBrincat. I'd rather save the picks & sign Gaudreau (whom I don't think we should sign) than trade for DeBrincat. He's a luxury that we can't afford to give up the money & picks/prospects for.

Now, if CHI was amenable to a deal of TK & Provorov (assuming Fletch dislikes Provy as much as I think he does) for DeBrincat and a sweetener...that's a different discussion. That could potentially open up future cash to re-sign Sanheim and lets us keep 5OA while shipping out guys who may need a change of scenery yet are valuable.

 

[FlyerNutter]

Forsberg over Gaudreau.

Thank you sweetly.