2022/23 Roster Thread II: Worth Every Penny

[DancingPanther]

So how much belief do you guys have in Risto under Torts?

As much belief as I had in him under AV.

 

[deadhead]

I think Fletcher's mistakes are a bit exaggerated, other than Risto (which is an obsession shared by numerous GMs, got to have a big, physical D-man!).

Ghost was the market value for dumping salary. Whether he should have been dumped, but AV wanted him gone.
Atkinson was a good return for Voracek.
Ellis was a gamble, but applauded at the time, hindsight is 20/20, but if he can return close to 100%, still a steal.
Braun was market price for veteran top 4 D-man.
Niskanen was a steal for one season of Gudas (who is still a 3rd pair guy).
Hayes was market value at that time, and forced by the knowledge Patrick was damaged goods.
Thompson, MacEwen, etc. Who cares? People obsess over minor transactions. HCs like these guys for good or evil. They don't make or break a franchise, neither does losing NAK or Friedman, 4RW, 7th D-men don't move the needle,

His biggest fault is the same as Hextall, failure to identify and acquire young NHL players at low cost.
That's how Colorado (Sakic is an awful drafter outside the top 20), Florida, TB find surplus value.

Fletcher isn't a brilliant GM, but who is?
ZIto was brilliant until Florida came up short after trading 2 1st rd picks, then he hires Maurice.
But Fletcher isn't a disaster, the problem is he's doing the bidding of idiots.

 

[Beef Invictus]

So how much belief do you guys have in Risto under Torts?

Same level of expectation that I hold for being able to make love to the Moon

 

[Magua]

So how much belief do you guys have in Risto under Torts?

Somewhere between crypto and Big Foot.

Same level of expectation that I hold for being able to make love to the Moon

Is sitting in the ocean as the tide comes in, bathed in moonlight, the equivalent to sexting with the moon?

 

[deadhead]

So how much belief do you guys have in Risto under Torts?

The two players to watch are Hayes and Risto.

Torts already said that while Couts is a solid two way center, he needs to work on Hayes off the puck.

And Torts will ride Risto hard, he won't be a fan of getting out of position to make hits, but he'll like Risto's willingness to block shots and give him more leeway on offense. Torts won't care how much Risto is making, he'll either play the right way or ride the bench.

He turned David Savard into a solid D-man, so we'll see what he can do with Risto.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

So how much belief do you guys have in Risto under Torts?

 

[BiggE]

So how much belief do you guys have in Risto under Torts?

About the same faith I have in Jeffrey Epstein running a Girl Scout camp or Bill Cosby tending bar on ladies night

 

[bennysflyers16]

So how much belief do you guys have in Risto under Torts?

Zero %. Torts will LOATHE him.

 

[deadhead]

Zero %. Torts will LOATHE him.

I dunno. Torts will like his willingness to sacrifice his body and to play physical in front of the net.
He'll hate getting out of position to chase hits, his indecisiveness, and chasing the puck carrier.

So he'll sit on Risto hard, I think Hayes will be the punching bag among forwards, and Risto among the D-men - both will be rode hard, both as examples to teammates but also b/c Risto will see untapped potential that he'll try to release.

To be fair to Risto, going from the clusterf--- that has been Buffalo to the clusterf--- that was the Flyers last season wasn't conducive to player development.

It should be entertaining.

 

[BringBackHakstol]

I think Fletcher's mistakes are a bit exaggerated, other than Risto (which is an obsession shared by numerous GMs, got to have a big, physical D-man!).

Ghost was the market value for dumping salary. Whether he should have been dumped, but AV wanted him gone.
Atkinson was a good return for Voracek.
Ellis was a gamble, but applauded at the time, hindsight is 20/20, but if he can return close to 100%, still a steal.
Braun was market price for veteran top 4 D-man.
Niskanen was a steal for one season of Gudas (who is still a 3rd pair guy).
Hayes was market value at that time, and forced by the knowledge Patrick was damaged goods.
Thompson, MacEwen, etc. Who cares? People obsess over minor transactions. HCs like these guys for good or evil. They don't make or break a franchise, neither does losing NAK or Friedman, 4RW, 7th D-men don't move the needle,

His biggest fault is the same as Hextall, failure to identify and acquire young NHL players at low cost.
That's how Colorado (Sakic is an awful drafter outside the top 20), Florida, TB find surplus value.

Fletcher isn't a brilliant GM, but who is?
ZIto was brilliant until Florida came up short after trading 2 1st rd picks, then he hires Maurice.
But Fletcher isn't a disaster, the problem is he's doing the bidding of idiots.

Even giving this list the benefit of the doubt, which we shouldn't, where's all the good moves?

Defending all his moves as mediocre at best is kind of the problem, isn't it?

 

[Diaper Mask Bandits]

I agree with this. I also beleive that the team is cursed - it's probably just narcissistic, but it seems that if something could go wrong with the Flyers it will. I am sure other teams feel the same way, but going back to 1976 Bernie Parent has his eye poked, 1980 there is Leon Stickle, 1985 Lindbergh dies, 1987 finals Kerr, Propp and Poulin were all injured in some way, Eric Lindros has concussion problems, Keith Primeau has concussion problems, Flyers, by far the worst team in the NHL, lose the lottery, thereby NOT getting Patrick Kane and getting JVR instead, Chris Pronger has concussion problems after trading away 10 years of first rounders for him, Nolan Patrick is broken - it is as if things work against the Flyers, and in the past, it wasn't stupidity that hurt the Flyers, but fate. Now we are just stupid though.

yes, and for me 2004 was the hardest of everything.

I honestly believed they were the best team in the NHL that season but they ran out of gas in game 7 in Tampa. IT was a devastating loss for me because I felt it was the end of an era.... and it was with the salary cap going away. But, it was also the end of that 95-2004 team. NJ, Detroit, Colorado, Dallas had won cups; for that single season in 2004 I believed the Flyers had paid their dues and that it was their time

And I blame Clarke. He decimated the defensive depth by trading Therien and Weinrich in order to them a favor or something. It was ridiculous. Maybe Kapanan would have been playing forward if they kept those 2.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Somewhere between crypto and Big Foot.



Is sitting in the ocean as the tide comes in, bathed in moonlight, the equivalent to sexting with the moon?

It never sexts back

 

[Kelmitchell2]

About the same faith I have in Jeffrey Epstein running a Girl Scout camp or Bill Cosby tending bar on ladies night

BEST POST EVER

 

[Kelmitchell2]

I think Fletcher's mistakes are a bit exaggerated, other than Risto (which is an obsession shared by numerous GMs, got to have a big, physical D-man!).

Ghost was the market value for dumping salary. Whether he should have been dumped, but AV wanted him gone.
Atkinson was a good return for Voracek.
Ellis was a gamble, but applauded at the time, hindsight is 20/20, but if he can return close to 100%, still a steal.
Braun was market price for veteran top 4 D-man.
Niskanen was a steal for one season of Gudas (who is still a 3rd pair guy).
Hayes was market value at that time, and forced by the knowledge Patrick was damaged goods.
Thompson, MacEwen, etc. Who cares? People obsess over minor transactions. HCs like these guys for good or evil. They don't make or break a franchise, neither does losing NAK or Friedman, 4RW, 7th D-men don't move the needle,

His biggest fault is the same as Hextall, failure to identify and acquire young NHL players at low cost.
That's how Colorado (Sakic is an awful drafter outside the top 20), Florida, TB find surplus value.

Fletcher isn't a brilliant GM, but who is?
ZIto was brilliant until Florida came up short after trading 2 1st rd picks, then he hires Maurice.
But Fletcher isn't a disaster, the problem is he's doing the bidding of idiots.

I care, I've been bitching about the 4th line for damn near a decade, we keep playing useless players, you're acting like it's not a big deal but it is, having a solid 4th line matters, let's not act like Thompson wasn't given wayyy to much Ice time, I mean for God's sake he was out for 15 minutes of ice time in a playoff game defending barzel! That's insane, and management turns around and brought his sorry ass back as soon as they could, on day 1 of free agency, mackewen is a disaster of a hockey player, he's honestly a worse hockey player than Todd fedoruk was and that's sad, some day you learn everything matters, big and small, it all adds up

 

[deadhead]

I care, I've been bitching about the 4th line for damn near a decade, we keep playing useless players, you're acting like it's not a big deal but it is, having a solid 4th line matters, let's not act like Thompson wasn't given wayyy to much Ice time, I mean for God's sake he was out for 15 minutes of ice time in a playoff game defending barzel! That's insane, and management turns around and brought his sorry ass back as soon as they could, on day 1 of free agency, mackewen is a disaster of a hockey player, he's honestly a worse hockey player than Todd fedoruk was and that's sad, some day you learn everything matters, big and small, it all adds up

The problem wasn't Thompson or Grant, it was that Frost and Bunnaman inspired zero confidence in AV.
Look at Bednar benching Newhook to start the playoffs, and he's more talented and a year older than Frost in 2019-20.
And Bunnaman has turned out to be a younger, even less productive version of Thompson.

Flyers simply haven't had 12 skilled forwards the last decade, last season, if not for injuries, they might have been able to field 12, this year they should be able to, Frost, Tippett, Cates, Laczynski, Allison, Lindblom/Laughton, they should have six solid bottom six guys barring injury. And they'll have five solid prospects behind them.

Someone like Cates is a proven college player and mature at 23, same with Laczynski and Allison, it's just easier for most HCs to trust an older prospect than a kid out of the CHL unless he's an uber-talent (Farabee, TK, Patrick started at 19).

 

[Fight4yourRight]

Didn’t Hayes already play under Torts in NY?

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Didn’t Hayes already play under Torts in NY?

No. Hayes didn’t come along until a couple years after Tortorella left.

 

[DancingPanther]

Same level of expectation that I hold for being able to make love to the Moon

What about the stone king

 

[Kelmitchell2]

The problem wasn't Thompson or Grant, it was that Frost and Bunnaman inspired zero confidence in AV.
Look at Bednar benching Newhook to start the playoffs, and he's more talented and a year older than Frost in 2019-20.
And Bunnaman has turned out to be a younger, even less productive version of Thompson.

Flyers simply haven't had 12 skilled forwards the last decade, last season, if not for injuries, they might have been able to field 12, this year they should be able to, Frost, Tippett, Cates, Laczynski, Allison, Lindblom/Laughton, they should have six solid bottom six guys barring injury. And they'll have five solid prospects behind them.

Someone like Cates is a proven college player and mature at 23, same with Laczynski and Allison, it's just easier for most HCs to trust an older prospect than a kid out of the CHL unless he's an uber-talent (Farabee, TK, Patrick started at 19).

There's always a better option than thompson

 

[Juicy Pop]

Can't wait for the '23 1st trade that turns into a top-5 pick... knowing Fletcher he won't secure it

 

[deadhead]

Even giving this list the benefit of the doubt, which we shouldn't, where's all the good moves?

Defending all his moves as mediocre at best is kind of the problem, isn't it?

Same exact issue with Hextall. Which may be an organizational problem.

Fletcher has drafted as well as Hextall, he's just under orders to win now, whereas Hextall had a few years where he could accumulate draft picks and not have to worry about winning.

Rangers are a good example, same GM traded away 4 1st rd picks to try to go deep into the playoffs, then traded for 3 1st rd picks when he started the rebuild. Comes down to what the strategy is, the GM primarily chooses tactics.

 

[Deadpool8812]

Can't wait for the '23 1st trade that turns into a top-5 pick... knowing Fletcher he won't secure it

"Was unaware you could do that"

 

[Flyer lurker]

So how much belief do you guys have in Risto under Torts?

Maybe just maybe Sanheim is a really good defenseman who helps cover up how bad the players he has been paired up with.

 

[Beef Invictus]

The problem wasn't Thompson or Grant, it was that Frost and Bunnaman inspired zero confidence in AV.
Look at Bednar benching Newhook to start the playoffs, and he's more talented and a year older than Frost in 2019-20.
And Bunnaman has turned out to be a younger, even less productive version of Thompson.

Flyers simply haven't had 12 skilled forwards the last decade, last season, if not for injuries, they might have been able to field 12, this year they should be able to, Frost, Tippett, Cates, Laczynski, Allison, Lindblom/Laughton, they should have six solid bottom six guys barring injury. And they'll have five solid prospects behind them.

Someone like Cates is a proven college player and mature at 23, same with Laczynski and Allison, it's just easier for most HCs to trust an older prospect than a kid out of the CHL unless he's an uber-talent (Farabee, TK, Patrick started at 19).

Ah so the problem was that a Fletcher blew the coaching hire.

There's no escaping the fact that he's to blame

 

[TheKingPin]

I agree with this. I also beleive that the team is cursed - it's probably just narcissistic, but it seems that if something could go wrong with the Flyers it will. I am sure other teams feel the same way, but going back to 1976 Bernie Parent has his eye poked, 1980 there is Leon Stickle, 1985 Lindbergh dies, 1987 finals Kerr, Propp and Poulin were all injured in some way, Eric Lindros has concussion problems, Keith Primeau has concussion problems, Flyers, by far the worst team in the NHL, lose the lottery, thereby NOT getting Patrick Kane and getting JVR instead, Chris Pronger has concussion problems after trading away 10 years of first rounders for him, Nolan Patrick is broken - it is as if things work against the Flyers, and in the past, it wasn't stupidity that hurt the Flyers, but fate. Now we are just stupid though.

Don’t forget cancer. Pronger was even worse because we just restructured the team to allow Pronger be the leader.

But all that said, I don’t believe in bad luck. I think it will all even out over long enough. Which may mean winning a lottery or two for a generational player or two!