2022/23 Roster Thread II: Worth Every Penny

[deadhead]

Flyers aren't in terrible shape, disappointing given the optimism generated by 2019-20, but they're not the first decent team to have an off-season due to injuries.

Even if Ellis is out:
Provorov - York/Attard
Sanheim - Risto
Zamula/Hogberg/York - Attard

is a workable defense, and far better than last season with Braun, Yandle and Seeler/Connauton.
Given how well Provorov - Attard played to finish the year, I'd give them a long look in preseason.

Provorov - York 194 minutes, CF 45.19%, xGF 49.38%
Provorov - Attard 88 minutes, CF 57.19%, xGF 57.99%

York preferes the left side, but didn't look out of place on Provorov's right.
Attard started out shaky, but settled in the last couple weeks, as he learned what not to do.
Even if they draft one of the RHD, I dbout they'll be with the team in 2022-23, but could impact 2023 summer moves.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Flyers aren't in terrible shape, disappointing given the optimism generated by 2019-20, but they're not the first decent team to have an off-season due to injuries.

Even if Ellis is out:
Provorov - York/Attard
Sanheim - Risto
Zamula/Hogberg/York - Attard

is a workable defense, and far better than last season with Braun, Yandle and Seeler/Connauton.
Given how well Provorov - Attard played to finish the year, I'd give them a long look in preseason.

Provorov - York 194 minutes, CF 45.19%, xGF 49.38%
Provorov - Attard 88 minutes, CF 57.19%, xGF 57.99%

York preferes the left side, but didn't look out of place on Provorov's right.
Attard started out shaky, but settled in the last couple weeks, as he learned what not to do.
Even if they draft one of the RHD, I dbout they'll be with the team in 2022-23, but could impact 2023 summer moves.

You live in fantasyland, man. They weren’t going to be a decent team in 20/21 even without injuries. 98% of this board predicted that they weren’t going to be good.

 

[bobbythebrain]

It's a huge stretch you saying with zero evidence Hayes had a hand in constructing the roster. Yandle was a prominent acquisition?

I laid my reasons out on why they acquired those players. You feel differently. Next topic.

"The acquisitions of Keith Yandle and Cam Atkinson to the Flyers became more than just about hockey on August 23rd and it will remain to be more than just about hockey throughout their upcoming tenures with the team."

 

[blackjackmulligan]

"The acquisitions of Keith Yandle and Cam Atkinson to the Flyers became more than just about hockey on August 23rd and it will remain to be more than just about hockey throughout their upcoming tenures with the team."

This is what you present as proof that Hayes had a hand in the roster?

 

[bobbythebrain]

This is what you present as proof that Hayes had a hand in the roster?

No, common sense and coincidences is all the proof you need. Like Beef said, Flutch talked about a malaise in the dressing room, then he signs Hayes and brings in all his buddies

It's not rocket applainces

 

[Beef Invictus]

Atkinson's acquisition had nothing to do with Hayes, AV wanted to dump Voracek, and the only way to do so was to find a forward with a matching salary. Seattle could have claimed Voracek in the ED, which just shows he had negative value with that contract.

Jones was the only decent goalie who'd sign a one year deal to backup Hart. Fletcher didn't want to sign a veteran goalie to a multi-year deal that might block the young goalies.

Of course Hayes defended Yandle, but if you think Hayes had any power to keep Yandle in the lineup . . .

Inventing conspiracy theories and ignoring Occam's razor.

Occam's razor is that Fletcher followed yet another bad process and included the face of the franchise in the process because he loves to distribute power and influence where it doesn't belong, as he has always done since taking this job, as part of their stated quest to "fix" the locker room

"AV was the real shadow power" is more of a conspiracy theory and it isn't borne out by much of anything that happened last year after he was fired.

 

[deadhead]

You live in fantasyland, man. They weren’t going to be a decent team in 20/21 even without injuries. 98% of this board predicted that they weren’t going to be good.

I dunno, a healthy Flyers team might have made some noise, and maybe AV isn't comatose if they get off to a good start.

This team should go with the kids and see how far they can take them, that defense without Ellis is still pretty talented.

The guy I think people are sleeping on is Attard, sure he struggled out of the gate, but the speed at which he adjusted was impressive. He's steadily improved the last four years, from a breakout USHL season at 19, to consistent improvement in college.
Last two college seasons 64g 21-37 58.
Good size, speed, great shot, improved defensively.
And he fits the way Torts likes to use D-men.

Wheeler on Attard in January:

"Attard’s a once raw, once late-blooming 6-foot-3 defenseman who has become a minute-munching college hockey defenseman and Hobey Baker long list nominee. He’s an appealing prospect for a variety of reasons. He’s a big, strong right-shot defender whose skating stride is powerful and has cleaned up. He’s also got a ridiculously hard shot and an aggressive offensive mentality to match it, eagerly joining the rush to act as a fourth forward high into the offensive zone. Add in progress made with his decision-making to cut down on how often he makes mistakes or tunnel visions (with and without the puck) and you’ve suddenly got a player who has always had the tools but now knows how to make the most of them within reason. He has always been a high-ceiling, low-floor, boom-or-bust talent who could be really interesting with the right development but the more I watch him, the higher his floor begins to feel. I’m not prepared to safely project him into the NHL or anything but he should be a no-brainer to sign and work with."

And that's pretty much what we saw, started out intimidated, getting caught out of position, but after a couple weeks, espeically paired with Provorov, he settled down, learned when to gamble, used his shot and skated pretty well. I think you could pair him with Provorov, York or Zamula. And if you go two D-men on the PP, he's perfect on the right side with that booming shot.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

No, common sense and coincidences is all the proof you need. Like Beef said, Flutch talked about a malaise in the dressing room, then he signs Hayes and brings in all his buddies

It's not rocket applainces

Well you lack common sense if you think Kevin Hayes has any say in the roster.

 

[Starat327]

I'd argue the person who can't read what's in front of them is the one lacking common sense, but hey, who am i.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

I'd argue the person who can't read what's in front of them is the one lacking common sense, but hey, who am i.

Agree. Who are you?

 

[Starat327]

Agree. Who are you?.

Oh, dont play coy with me, GB.

 

[Adtar02]

Well you lack common sense if you think Kevin Hayes has any say in the roster.

not what he said. in the slightest

 

[blackjackmulligan]

Oh, dont play coy with me, GB.

GB? Packers fan?

not what he said. in the slightest

Then lay it out for me.

 

[FlyerNutter]

Oh, dont play coy with me, GB.

I know this isn’t meant to sound that way, but in my head I read it in a very flirty tone.

The usage of “coy”, always does that to me.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

I dunno, a healthy Flyers team might have made some noise, and maybe AV isn't comatose if they get off to a good start.

This team should go with the kids and see how far they can take them, that defense without Ellis is still pretty talented.

The guy I think people are sleeping on is Attard, sure he struggled out of the gate, but the speed at which he adjusted was impressive. He's steadily improved the last four years, from a breakout USHL season at 19, to consistent improvement in college.
Last two college seasons 64g 21-37 58.
Good size, speed, great shot, improved defensively.
And he fits the way Torts likes to use D-men.

Wheeler on Attard in January:

"Attard’s a once raw, once late-blooming 6-foot-3 defenseman who has become a minute-munching college hockey defenseman and Hobey Baker long list nominee. He’s an appealing prospect for a variety of reasons. He’s a big, strong right-shot defender whose skating stride is powerful and has cleaned up. He’s also got a ridiculously hard shot and an aggressive offensive mentality to match it, eagerly joining the rush to act as a fourth forward high into the offensive zone. Add in progress made with his decision-making to cut down on how often he makes mistakes or tunnel visions (with and without the puck) and you’ve suddenly got a player who has always had the tools but now knows how to make the most of them within reason. He has always been a high-ceiling, low-floor, boom-or-bust talent who could be really interesting with the right development but the more I watch him, the higher his floor begins to feel. I’m not prepared to safely project him into the NHL or anything but he should be a no-brainer to sign and work with."

And that's pretty much what we saw, started out intimidated, getting caught out of position, but after a couple weeks, espeically paired with Provorov, he settled down, learned when to gamble, used his shot and skated pretty well. I think you could pair him with Provorov, York or Zamula. And if you go two D-men on the PP, he's perfect on the right side with that booming shot.

Do you see this team having 2 of York, Attard, or Zamula in the top 6 to start the season? Assume all are healthy.

I know this isn’t meant to sound that way, but in my head I read it in a very flirty tone.

The usage of “coy”, always does that to me.

Coy Bacon, underrated NFL player.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

No, common sense and coincidences is all the proof you need. Like Beef said, Flutch talked about a malaise in the dressing room, then he signs Hayes and brings in all his buddies

It's not rocket applainces

Huh? It was last summer that Chuck talked about a malaise. Hayes had just finished his second season as a Flyer.

 

[Beef Invictus]

It's certainly true that Hayes should not have any influence on who is on the roster.

Evidence and actions indicate he did, and that's only possible because Fletcher offered it.

Shit, the team's PR machine itself was pumping up the Hayes connections as if they were some massive positive to get people on board.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

It's certainly true that Hayes should not have any influence on who is on the roster.

Evidence and actions indicate he did, and that's only possible because Fletcher offered it.

Evidence = your speculation.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Evidence = your speculation.

No, actually evidence = things that happened and the circumstances surrounding them

 

[blackjackmulligan]

No, actually evidence = things that happened and the circumstances surrounded them

You have provided zero evidence. None. Zero. You see what you want to see as you despise the franchise and the President/GM.

Do not take that as an endorsement of either. The franchise is broken and the President/GM is not good.

 

[Starat327]

No, actually evidence = things that happened and the circumstances surrounding them

I dont believe you, so its not true. #BigFacts

 

[Beef Invictus]

You have provided zero evidence. None. Zero. You see what you want to see as you despise the franchise and the President/GM.

Do not take that as an endorsement of either. The franchise is broken and the President/GM is not good.

Your refusal to accept evidence doesn't mean it isn't real. Godpseed.

 

[deadhead]

Do you see this team having 2 of York, Attard, or Zamula in the top 6 to start the season? Assume all are healthy.

York is a lock, if Ellis is out, he'll get top 4 minutes. Either way he's likely to be PP1 QB.

Attard has a good shot of making the team out of camp, if Ellis is healthy, as the 6th D-man.

Zamula/Hogberg will compete for the 6th spot if Ellis is out.

Attard has three advantages over Zamula, age (23), physical maturity (6'3 207 or so), and RHD.

If Ellis is out, I can see York/Attard alternating on Provorov's right side, with York as the 3LHD on other shifts, and Zamula/Attard on some shifts.
In that case, ES TOI would be Provorov > Sanheim > Risto > York > Attard > Zamula.
Provorov - York - Sanheim - Attard/Risto on PK
York, Sanheim/Attard on the PP.

Your refusal to accept evidence doesn't mean it isn't real. Godpseed.

Speculation isn't evidence, it's not even hearsay.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

Your refusal to accept evidence doesn't mean it isn't real. Godpseed.

There is no evidence. Oh my bad Yandle is BFF with Hayes and Cam went to to the same college. The more I think about you are correct. Hayes made those acquisitions.

Probably being groomed to be a future Flyers GM.

York is a lock, if Ellis is out, he'll get top 4 minutes. Either way he's likely to be PP1 QB.

Attard has a good shot of making the team out of camp, if Ellis is healthy, as the 6th D-man.

Zamula/Hogberg will compete for the 6th spot if Ellis is out.

Attard has three advantages over Zamula, age (23), physical maturity (6'3 207 or so), and RHD.

If Ellis is out, I can see York/Attard alternating on Provorov's right side, with York as the 3LHD on other shifts, and Zamula/Attard on some shifts.
In that case, ES TOI would be Provorov > Sanheim > Risto > York > Attard > Zamula.
Provorov - York - Sanheim - Attard/Risto on PK
York, Sanheim/Attard on the PP.


Speculation isn't evidence, it's not even hearsay.

So that is a yes. We shall see as no way imo. York yes a lock. No way they will play Attard or Zamula as well.

Where is Seeler? Also you really think they will not sign or trade for another dman?

 

[deadhead]

There is no evidence. Oh my bad Yandle is BFF with Hayes and Cam went to to the same college. The more I think about you are correct. Hayes made those acquisitions.

Probably being groomed to be a future Flyers GM.


So that is a yes. We shall see as no way imo. York yes a lock. No way they will play Attard or Zamula as well.

Where is Seeler? Also you really think they will not sign or trade for another dman?

Seeler is either in the press box or LHV, when they brought up the kids, they all played more minutes than Seeler the last 20 games.

I don't think they'll trade for a veteran, if Ellis is out, maybe a veteran RHD on a short-term deal.
But after seeing Attard adjust so quickly, I think at the very least they'd want to see him in the 3RHD role.
I mean he has some top level offensive skills, and is a good complement to their mobile but undersized LHDs.