2022/23 Roster Thread II: Worth Every Penny

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Ghosts Beer

I saw Goody Fletcher with the Devil!
Feb 10, 2014
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Still waiting for actual examples of players with great D+1, D+2 performances who flopped due to lousy development.
The only player who fit this are Myers (we now know it's an IQ issue if Nashville can't fix him), Patrick (injuries), Frost (injuries).

The other players who failed to develop were meh before they got to the Flyers, while development didn't perform any miracles, it didn't deep six prospects either.
You won't get any, because there are none. Just another example of repeating a false narrative enough times to where people convince themselves it's true. (Similar to current management hates "sMaLL bOis" even though four of their five 1st and 2nd rd picks are York, Brink, Andrae, and Tuomaala.)
 

deadhead

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Feb 26, 2014
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This is the weirdest possible stance. Forget hockey development or Phil Myers or the Flyers. That’s not how time works.
There's something wrong with that boy, he has the physical talent, but even Nashville gave up on him.
 

renberg

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A pretty significant decision in the area of development that has to be made is for what reason are the Flyers going to fill out a roster in LV? To win games or to increase the skills of the players that are there? There is a conflict that exists between the Phantom's ownership that wants to win games in order to fill seats and the Flyers need for the prospects to get instruction and PT. If the call by the Flyers is the latter, then better coaching has to be there than Gordon, Lappy and the likes of them.

 
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JojoTheWhale

"You should keep it." -- Striiker
May 22, 2008
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There's something wrong with that boy, he has the physical talent, but even Nashville gave up on him.

Forget Phil Myers. We don’t know anything based on what happens to him in Nashville or his next stop. You can’t just pluck any athlete out of time and isolate development like that. It’s not just where you are. It’s when you’re there. It’s what’s happened to you before. It can work both for or against you, but step one of professional athletic development is that everything is connected. You just move the probability sliders. You never get hard answers.
 

Kelmitchell2

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Aug 30, 2020
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If you're still bitching about the JOB pick today, you're probably not prepared for what upside drafting looks like. It's not going down a consensus checklist.
I hated the pick then and still do now, I truly don't think he was worthy of a 1st rd pick, just my personal opinion, nothing about his game is very good

I get what you mean by high upside players taking longer to develop, but again in my opinion, he isn't one of those types of players
 
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Curufinwe

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Feb 28, 2013
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I think it's obvious now their development process ruined them
That doesn't explain why top picks like JOB and Ginning look like total duds. They haven't been near the Flyers' AHL or NHL teams yet.

JOB
25 games for Providence (NCAA)
46 games for Penticton Vees (BCHL)
40 games for Boston U (NCAA)

Ginning
17 games for HC Vita Hasten (Allsvenskan)
75 games for Linkoping HC (SHL)
101 games for Farjestad BK (SHL)
 
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JojoTheWhale

"You should keep it." -- Striiker
May 22, 2008
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I hated the pick then and still do now, I truly don't think he was worthy of a 1st rd pick, just my personal opinion, nothing about his game is very good

I get what you mean by high upside players taking longer to develop, but again in my opinion, he isn't one of those types of players

Developmental timeline is not what I meant, although it certainly is a fair point.

How did you determine this opinion of his game and the pick on draft day?
 
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bauer

I MISS GHOST
Nov 11, 2007
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It's honestly one of the worst crops of "under 24" talent in the NHL.

Just about every other team has that group beat, except a few of the contenders that went all-in on winning the last few years like Toronto and Tampa Bay.
the only real special under 24 player we have is Carter Hart. everything else is just "meh". yeah maybe some will become a top 4 D and maybe some will become decent middle six forwards, but we severely lack the high end talent that a team needs to win. TB and Colorado should have taught everyone that by now. and you can't get that without accumulating multiple top 5 picks.

but here we are, all set to go into 'retool on the fly' #10485727.
 

deadhead

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Feb 26, 2014
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A pretty significant decision in the area of development that has to be made is for what reason are the Flyers going to fill out a roster in LV? To win games or to increase the skills of the players that are there? There is a conflict that exists between the Phantom's ownership that wants to win games in order to fill seats and the Flyers need for the prospects to get instruction and PT. If the call by the Flyers is the latter, then better coaching has to be there than Gordon, Lappy and the likes of them.
Tough tradeoff, there is value to a long playoff run in the AHL for player development.
I think it comes down to spending for a few high quality veterans, you're limited to how many you can play.
A high quality AHL veteran generally is also a candidate for an injury call up if needed.
 

tictactoe

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York - top 4 D-man
Brink - NCAA scoring leader at 20 years old
Frost, Tippett, underacheivers who are young enough to break out
N Cates - solid two way forward
Zamula - skinny but capable D-man
and Allison, Laczynski, Ratcliffe, Foerster, Wisdom, Desnoyers, Lycksell, Andrae.


You should be happy if one of these guys becomes an important regular.
Is he? Based on what?
and what does skinny but capable means exactly?
 

deadhead

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Feb 26, 2014
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the only real special under 24 player we have is Carter Hart. everything else is just "meh". yeah maybe some will become a top 4 D and maybe some will become decent middle six forwards, but we severely lack the high end talent that a team needs to win. TB and Colorado should have taught everyone that by now. and you can't get that without accumulating multiple top 5 picks.

but here we are, all set to go into 'retool on the fly' #10485727.
Point, Kucherov, Pastrnk, Marchand, Aho, etc.
It's easier to find these guys in the top 5, but there are other ways.

Is he? Based on what?
and what does skinny but capable means exactly?
York? Did you watch him? Didn't look out of place at all with top 4 minutes. He's not flashy, but efficient.

Zamula is always going to struggle with his high center of gravity, but otherwise is a smooth skater, good passer and has a high IQ.
 
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tictactoe

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Point, Kucherov, Pastrnk, Marchand, Aho, etc.
It's easier to find these guys in the top 5, but there are other ways.


York? Did you watch him? Didn't look out of place at all with top 4 minutes. He's not flashy, but efficient.

Zamula is always going to struggle with his high center of gravity, but otherwise is a smooth skater, good passer and has a high IQ.
yup I watched him... So what? He may become top 4 d-me in the future. Aint top 4 yet.
Zamula is like 120lbs he basically has no gravity. Sure, another long term possibility.
 
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Kelmitchell2

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Aug 30, 2020
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Developmental timeline is not what I meant, although it certainly is a fair point.

How did you determine this opinion of his game and the pick on draft day?
Well I've gotten to see him play a bit, and from what I seen, he's at best a top 9 guy, low end, nothing really stood out to me, a little better than average skater, doesn't see the game very fast, isn't a great passer nor does he posses and good shot, and he's below average defensively (draft year) I really thought he'd be a middle 2nd rounder maybe even a 3rd round player, but now, I still seem him as at best top 9, likely bottom 6, if he makes it
 

JojoTheWhale

"You should keep it." -- Striiker
May 22, 2008
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Well I've gotten to see him play a bit, and from what I seen, he's at best a top 9 guy, low end, nothing really stood out to me, a little better than average skater, doesn't see the game very fast, isn't a great passer nor does he posses and good shot, and he's below average defensively (draft year) I really thought he'd be a middle 2nd rounder maybe even a 3rd round player, but now, I still seem him as at best top 9, likely bottom 6, if he makes it

You're saying you watched enough Massachusetts High School hockey full game tape to evaluate his defensive game? Maybe you missed the "on draft day" part of the question? I'm not trying to be snarky here. There's obviously a disconnect somewhere.
 
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Fight4yourRight

“Chuck’s my guy”
Dec 18, 2017
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There's something wrong with that boy, he has the physical talent, but even Nashville gave up on him.
Because he was apparently so rotten from the Flyers attempts at “developing” him that he was a lost cause, too far gone for even a factory of good d-men like Nashville. There were reports about this, and his poor fundamentals that are all coachable areas. But that’s what happens when a Nick Schultz and other utterly incompetent employees are placed in positions that believe it or not, do have an impact.

The problem about Philly is not that there is one single problematic area of their management and development process; it’s that there are issues with each and every one of them. Sometimes more minor than others, but they all add up to represent an organization that desperately needs an enema. These reality denying, viagra popping ol Broad Street bullies need to get shipped out asap.
 

Kelmitchell2

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You're saying you watched enough Massachusetts High School hockey full game tape to evaluate his defensive game? Maybe you missed the "on draft day" part of the question? I'm not trying to be snarky here. There's obviously a disconnect somewhere.
Ok yeah didn't see that part, no I didn't watch him in his draft year, unless you count a few youtube videos that were posted prior to the draft (which didn't really stand out as good but can't go off of highlights)
 

Beef Invictus

Revolutionary Positivity
Dec 21, 2009
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Ok yeah didn't see that part, no I didn't watch him in his draft year, unless you count a few youtube videos that were posted prior to the draft (which didn't really stand out as good but can't go off of highlights)

Nah screw it. You can go off highlights. I've proclaimed Zayde Wisdom and Linus Hogberg will be wildly successful because their names are too awesome to fail. That's even flimsier than highlights.

That so far this is working better than it ever should have just further convinces me I never want to bet on hockey.
 
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