2022-23 Roster Discussion

[Adam da bomb]

As I pointed out earlier a good comparison is the Leafs with Liljegren and Sandin. Competitive team trying to win who brought in vet dmen. It took a while for both to stick in the NHL. I'm sure there glad that they stuck with them and didn't trade either.

Yep they just got an opportunity this season with the team having serious health issues, Muzzin missing lots of games. Their core of matthews is younger than Schief and their older player Tavares is their 2nd line centre. Toronto is who we could have become if pld agreed to stay long term and was better. Also we never had a player as good as Marner.
So their window is longer if they ever get past 1st rd of Boston or Tb. Our window looks like it’s coming to a premature end with PLD wanting out so we have a shorter window and have to be more ambitious. Therefore Heinola becomes our best trade piece. He may make trading him a decision we regret when he becomes amazing for someone else.

 

[surixon]

Yep they just got an opportunity this season with the team having serious health issues, Muzzin missing lots of games. Their core of matthews is younger than Schief and their older player Tavares is their 2nd line centre. Toronto is who we could have become if pld agreed to stay long term and was better. Also we never had a player as good as Marner.
So their window is longer if they ever get past 1st rd of Boston or Tb. Our window looks like it’s coming to a premature end with PLD wanting out so we have a shorter window and have to be more ambitious. Therefore Heinola becomes our best trade piece. He may make trading him a decision we regret when he becomes amazing for someone else.

I mean Mathews is only under contract for 1 more year after this same as Nylander so their window may slam shut just as prematurely as ours. That or they become so much more top heavy with Mathews likely making 15 million and Nylander over $10 million.

 

[Adam da bomb]

I mean Mathews is only under contract for 1 more year after this same as Nylander so their window may slam shut just as prematurely as ours. That or they become so much more top heavy with Mathews likely making 15 million and Nylander over $10 million.

Maybe, either way it doesn’t take away from the prematureness.
I think they have an easier time keeping Matthews than we do PLD. Either way, hoping Heinola is good a year or two from now isn’t really a recipe for success. It’s the same reason I think Lucius and Mcgroaty should be on the table. I remember ppl being underwhelming with those two during and before wj. I’m of two minds both hating going all in and thinking as soon as we lose PLD we have a long rebuild ahead. Therefore, future, what future all that matters is a cup.
Obviously, they won’t be because continued playoffs is better business than rebuilding.

Lots of Canadian teams have this problem that’s why I think it’s shortsighted TB and Boston fans patting themselves on the back for their stars taking pay cuts and pointing out that they have been good for a decade without accepting they were just handed a winning card.

 

[Jet]

Yep they just got an opportunity this season with the team having serious health issues, Muzzin missing lots of games. Their core of matthews is younger than Schief and their older player Tavares is their 2nd line centre. Toronto is who we could have become if pld agreed to stay long term and was better. Also we never had a player as good as Marner.
So their window is longer if they ever get past 1st rd of Boston or Tb. Our window looks like it’s coming to a premature end with PLD wanting out so we have a shorter window and have to be more ambitious. Therefore Heinola becomes our best trade piece. He may make trading him a decision we regret when he becomes amazing for someone else.

There's lots of assumptions here.

We still don't know what's going to happen with PLD.

Toronto has the obvious best player in their forward elite, but then if you go in terms of talent they have Marner 25, Nylander 26, and Tavares 32.

Put that up against Schiefele 28, Connor 25, Dubois 24 and Ehlers 26

I actually like our top 4 better.

 

[DRW204]

Not to knock Ville. But I think it's been pretty clear for 2+ years which guy (between he and Samberg) had the skill set made for playing a defensive role in the NHL, and which guy would take time to adapt his game to the pros.

Samberg showing well in the metrics is obviously a great sign.

Not even just samberg but Stanley too. Who won to stay in the Canadian Division year? Who started the year after? And then who started this year? This is across different coaching staffs too.

Unless one of the "pp dmen" get moved he will be on the outside looking in next year again. I brought this up years ago... He wasn't making the team when the depth chart stunk, now it's good with highly paid vets he likely won't be there next year either.

His play hasn't helped make it impossible for staffs to keep him in the lineup. Although majority of that is on him, the constant stops and starts probably doesnt help either.

 

[MardyBum]

Trade him before his value drops. He hasn't shown he's an everyday good NHLer by his D+4 like *checks roster*

Logan Stanley who spent his D+4 in the AHL.
Dylan Samberg who spent his D+4 in the AHL
Kyle Capobianco who spent his D+4 in the AHL outside of 2 games.
Nate Schmidt who spent his D+4 in the NCAA(after being undrafted)
Brenden Dillon who spent half his D+4 in the AHL and half in the NHL(after not being drafted)
Dylan Demelo who spent his D+4 in the AHL.

So like Josh Morrissey. The only dman on the roster who was a fulltime proven NHLer by his D+4.

He's certainly no Josh Morrissey.



Edit : I forgot Neal Pionk, who spent his D+4 in the NCAA. Whoops!

 

[KingBogo]

Trade him before his value drops. He hasn't shown he's an everyday good NHLer by his D+4 like *checks roster*

Logan Stanley who spent his D+4 in the AHL.
Dylan Samberg who spent his D+4 in the AHL
Kyle Capobianco who spent his D+4 in the AHL outside of 2 games.
Nate Schmidt who spent his D+4 in the NCAA(after being undrafted)
Brenden Dillon who spent half his D+4 in the AHL and half in the NHL(after not being drafted)
Dylan Demelo who spent his D+4 in the AHL.

So like Josh Morrissey. The only dman on the roster who was a fulltime proven NHLer by his D+4.

He's certainly no Josh Morrissey.



Edit : I forgot Neal Pionk, who spent his D+4 in the NCAA. Whoops!

I made this argument a few months back when everyone was complaining about Heinola's usage and needing to be developed in the NHL, but without as much detail. I don't think the organization feels a need to rush him.

Also from an organizational perspective Heinola plays an important role. He is the #9 defenseman who can be moved up and down as needed since he is waiver exempt, thereby eliminating the risk of losing any defensive depth that may later be needed.

 

[surixon]

I made this argument a few months back when everyone was complaining about Heinola's usage and needing to be developed in the NHL, but without as much detail. I don't think the organization feels a need to rush him.

Also from an organizational perspective Heinola plays an important role. He is the #9 defenseman who can be moved up and down as needed since he is waiver exempt, thereby eliminating the risk of losing any defensive depth that may later be needed.

Just looking back at his draft year and all the dmen taken in around him are still in the AHL except for York who still spent the first part of the year there.

Maybe some of us got impatient with him and the org. It doesn't look like he's tracking any different from his fellow class of dmen.

 

[MardyBum]

I made this argument a few months back when everyone was complaining about Heinola's usage and needing to be developed in the NHL, but without as much detail. I don't think the organization feels a need to rush him.

Also from an organizational perspective Heinola plays an important role. He is the #9 defenseman who can be moved up and down as needed since he is waiver exempt, thereby eliminating the risk of losing any defensive depth that may later be needed.

Agreed. I'm a fan of Ville, think he's going to be a solid NHLer, but Samberg has outplayed him, he should absolutely be in the lineup ahead of him. Stanley needs waivers and they'd 100% lose him to waivers, and you don't want Ville sitting in the PB which is fine for Capo who's been good when used after large stretches of no play.

He had some great games before the last bad couple that seems burned into some memories.

Just looking back at his draft year and all the dmen taken in around him are still in the AHL except for York who still spent the first part of the year there.

Maybe some of us got impatient with him and the org. It doesn't look like he's tracking any different from his fellow class of dmen.

Playing at 18 in the NHL doesn't help on this forum lol. He gets treated like he's 26 sometimes the way the word bust is thrown around.

 

[BoneDocUK]

Agreed. I'm a fan of Ville, think he's going to be a solid NHLer, but Samberg has outplayed him, he should absolutely be in the lineup ahead of him. Stanley needs waivers and they'd 100% lose him to waivers, and you don't want Ville sitting in the PB which is fine for Capo who's been good when used after large stretches of no play.

He had some great games before the last bad couple that seems burned into some memories.



Playing at 18 in the NHL doesn't help on this forum lol. He gets treated like he's 26 sometimes the way the word bust is thrown around.

This.

It's worth going back to those early rookie games -- he made quite a few here believers before he began to bust hard at the ripe old age of 21.

As a few others have noted there's plenty of fans on these boards now who "knew" that Liljegren was gonna be this good, despite all the post calling him a bust until he somehow magically became good.

Some prospects make it straightaway. Most don't. And most who don't make it never get the 30,000 foot runway of a guy who's 6'7". Heinola has had a weird dev trajectory and this year is really no different. He may well fail to make it as a useful NHLer but it's far too early to tell.

And Samberg is a good comparo here. What happens if two seasons ago the Jets look at his indifferent play and think "Bust!" and move on from him?

At this point maybe it's more about fit and less about overall quality. Samberg PKs, Stan is tall, etc. But Ville potentially offers a transition game and PP presence that we don't really have after JMo, as we've seen already this year. Those skillsets are also important to team success.

If I were Chevy I'd swallow my pride and see what I can get for Stanley, because it isn't clear that he offers anything, other than height, over the other 5/6/7s in the roster and in the bullpen. But I don't expect to see it.

 

[Adam da bomb]

This.

It's worth going back to those early rookie games -- he made quite a few here believers before he began to bust hard at the ripe old age of 21.

As a few others have noted there's plenty of fans on these boards now who "knew" that Liljegren was gonna be this good, despite all the post calling him a bust until he somehow magically became good.

Some prospects make it straightaway. Most don't. And most who don't make it never get the 30,000 foot runway of a guy who's 6'7". Heinola has had a weird dev trajectory and this year is really no different. He may well fail to make it as a useful NHLer but it's far too early to tell.

And Samberg is a good comparo here. What happens if two seasons ago the Jets look at his indifferent play and think "Bust!" and move on from him?

At this point maybe it's more about fit and less about overall quality. Samberg PKs, Stan is tall, etc. But Ville potentially offers a transition game and PP presence that we don't really have after JMo, as we've seen already this year. Those skillsets are also important to team success.

If I were Chevy I'd swallow my pride and see what I can get for Stanley, because it isn't clear that he offers anything, other than height, over the other 5/6/7s in the roster and in the bullpen. But I don't expect to see it.

Ville only potentially offers improvement on pp and transition game, Stanley 100% offers height.

 

[Snowboy]

Ville only potentially offers improvement on pp and transition game, Stanley 100% offers height.

Send him to a basketball team!

 

[Gm0ney]

Trade him before his value drops. He hasn't shown he's an everyday good NHLer by his D+4 like *checks roster*

Logan Stanley who spent his D+4 in the AHL.
Dylan Samberg who spent his D+4 in the AHL
Kyle Capobianco who spent his D+4 in the AHL outside of 2 games.
Nate Schmidt who spent his D+4 in the NCAA(after being undrafted)
Brenden Dillon who spent half his D+4 in the AHL and half in the NHL(after not being drafted)
Dylan Demelo who spent his D+4 in the AHL.

So like Josh Morrissey. The only dman on the roster who was a fulltime proven NHLer by his D+4.

He's certainly no Josh Morrissey.



Edit : I forgot Neal Pionk, who spent his D+4 in the NCAA. Whoops!

I guess the Heinola-Now folks feel like he's developed about as much as he can in the AHL. Diminishing returns for him there now. He needs time in the NHL to put together his game...

 

[voyageur]

I just watched this last night. Pretty funny stuff. We're lucky to have these guys in Winnipeg.

 

[DRW204]

 

[TheHead]

Uh-oh..... I don't like the sound of that....

 

[tbcwpg]

 

[hockeyarena]

Bryan Little karma.

 

[Jack7222]

Bryan Little karma.

Are you suggesting one of our star wingers deserved getting a puck in the face because a shot of his accidentally hit Little one time?

 

[DRW204]

 

[DRW204]

 

[RustyCat]

I like that Bones does this with the lines.

 

[Buffdog]

f*** it, why not?

Gotta do something to get some scoring going. Start throwing shit against the wall

 

[Jet]

I like it. I like a strong, forechecking presence with skill players. We've been begging for 3 scoring lines forever.

Lowry has to get a goal soon, for his sanity.

I like a coach who shakes shit up

 

[Jack7222]

Whoa i actually like this, though not sure Saku is the guy to fit with Connor-Dubois. Interested to see how it goes.

Glad to see our coach willing to experiment a bit.

Also, as much as I am usually on the "get Ehlers more minutes" bandwagon, I actually think he will be a fit with Lowry...