2022-23 Roster Discussion

[surixon]

I'm

I'm away and haven't been able to follow the Jets that closely other than checking in on this board. From reading the various threads, it seems that Pionk may be a bit of an issue (brings down whatever pairing he'd a part of if I understand correctly) and folks here seem to think that for some strange reason Stanley is getting the nod over Samberg, who at this point, might be the better player. From watching the Jets quite closely earlier in the season, I agree on both counts. Is it just me or are there others who think that Coach B had a few tendencies similar to Coach Mo?

There are definitely some similarities but also many differences.

In terms of systems we are much more aggressive and dynamic under Bones then Moe.

Bones believes in activating his d aggressively, Moe did not.

Both special teams units look much better as well.

But in terms of deployment they are similar. Both are running a top 6/bottom 6 setup. Both are giving Tree a long leash despite being outplayed by his competitors.

But I do find that Bones in some situations is actually more conservative than Maurice. You'd never see Maurice put checking lines over the boards for 4 on 4 or 3 on 3 opportunities. Bones has done both numerous times.

 

[DRW204]

Like Lowry-Horvat-Apples?

wrong mix of play-styles imo. horvat is going to do what with those two? neither of those 2 are adept play-makers or finishers. they're grind-happy players that don't amount to much offensively there isn't enough of offense skill or iq on the wing to support 3 scoring lines atm.

Last night Lowry could have scored early in the game, pucked bounced right in front of him with the net open and he couldn't bunt it in. Got an ugly PP assist. But his line was owned, partially because he had another rough night in the circle. Things got even worse for the Jets when he was out though, and I think that's a telling tale, that there is nobody who is going to step up and replace him if he gets injured, and at first I though that hit was like the one Vegas put on him, after he beat the crap out of Reaves, one that knocked him out for a long stretch.

There's something to be said with the lack of talent on the bottom of this team, and I think that affects Lowry as much as anyone.

I think Barron with Lowry gives something Bowness wants, a defensive minded line that can hold possession on the cycle in the offensive zone. But we've seen a significant drop off from Lowry's effectiveness since Harkins was dropped off that line, and eventually sent to the Moose, replaced by Kuhlman.

I am looking at the combination of Maenalanen/AJF/Kuhlman/Stenlund/Gustafsson combining for 13 goals on the season so far, meanwhile Sam Gagner has 8, more than Lowry, more than Perfetti, and he can't get into the lineup. Because he is a defensive liability I suppose, but I wouldn't say any of those other guys are showing much either. Maybe Stenlund, if you take out the Nashville game.

I agree that the team is going to need some secondary scoring to go anywhere. With Lowry now under 50% on the draw, that gives me more hope that the Jets will go for a faceoff ace like Toews to start with the puck and consider moving Lowry to the wing. I think Lowry-Toews-Appleton would be a good checking line that could put some puck in the net. I would consider Toews to be the Copp replacement on what was a successful line for the Jets 2 years ago.

4th line should be at least 2 PKers. The two best at both 5 on 5 and the PK. I don't know where Gagner sits in the organization right now, but he can score goals.

his assist was nice on the PP. but i also question his inclusion on the PP lol. at the end of the day, he's the longest-tenured bottom-6er, the highest paid, the expectations are probably higher for him. 23 games w/o a goal? i mean c'mon, if this was a different Fwd on the team, they'd be getting lambasted on here.

i am trying to see what others see in barron. he has size, good speed, i don't know if the hands are consistently there & his finishing definitely hasn't been there. i don't think he's considered a prospect or "young" anymore (by NHL standards) as he's 24 but definitely an inexperienced player. i don't see sure-thing at top-9er right now, maybe in the future no clue .

i do agree with your combo of players. that's basically what you can expect out of waiver wire guys. maybe im thinking about it to much or putting to much stock into it.... but the fact we dont have any prospects that can come in and supplement bottom-6 scoring, isn't that a bit concerning? Like having that high amount of waiver-wire guys rather than home-grown talent? i do agree harkins did look solid in his stint, i actually preferred his game than most of those players but much like harkins he does fizzle out after a few hot games and then it's back to irrelevance.

idk how much toews adds. he's a top-6er on CHI playing heavy PP mins. 10/27 pts are on the PP (he wont be seeing much PP time here), he has 12 5v5 pts and a rate of 5v5 pts/60 is 1.24. i don't think that's going to improve playing w/ our bottom-6 & Lowry+Appleton. i have no idea if he's a great driver of offense anymore. the stats would say no. but i don't watch CHI enough to have a real qualified opinion.

overall might be spending too many key-strokes on this lol. we're 10th in GF league-wide, 19th at 5v5 (which is where the absence of bottom-6 scoring would be exemplified).

 

[DRW204]

delete

 

[Jack7222]

wrong mix of play-styles imo. horvat is going to do what with those two? neither of those 2 are adept play-makers or finishers. they're grind-happy players that don't amount to much offensively there isn't enough of offense skill or iq on the wing to support 3 scoring lines atm.

This is the issue... are we really one good player away from more scoring in the bottom six? It feels like major surgery is required unless we find the perfect player for Lowry.

 

[JetsFan815]

This is the issue... are we really one good player away from more scoring in the bottom six? It feels like major surgery is required unless we find the perfect player for Lowry.

Yep, we have 3 guys- AJF, Saku, and Kuhlman, who are bad with the puck and can't handle the puck well enough to be any kind of scoring threat. A contender can only afford to have 1 such guy on the 4th line yet we have 3. Appleton was having a rough season before he was hurt so not sure how much I trust him to be able to live up to the role and caphit.

I also no longer trust the coach to actually use the bottom-6 in a better way even if he was given better options. For one Gagner/Harkins should already be back in the lineup. Eyssimont should never have been waived, gotta think the coach had some say in that when it came to deciding which guy got waived.

Barron, Lowry and Stenlund have been acceptable bottom-6 players, need an upgrade for almost every other spot.

 

[voyageur]

wrong mix of play-styles imo. horvat is going to do what with those two? neither of those 2 are adept play-makers or finishers. they're grind-happy players that don't amount to much offensively there isn't enough of offense skill or iq on the wing to support 3 scoring lines atm.


his assist was nice on the PP. but i also question his inclusion on the PP lol. at the end of the day, he's the longest-tenured bottom-6er, the highest paid, the expectations are probably higher for him. 23 games w/o a goal? i mean c'mon, if this was a different Fwd on the team, they'd be getting lambasted on here.

i am trying to see what others see in barron. he has size, good speed, i don't know if the hands are consistently there & his finishing definitely hasn't been there. i don't think he's considered a prospect or "young" anymore (by NHL standards) as he's 24 but definitely an inexperienced player. i don't see sure-thing at top-9er right now, maybe in the future no clue .

i do agree with your combo of players. that's basically what you can expect out of waiver wire guys. maybe im thinking about it to much or putting to much stock into it.... but the fact we dont have any prospects that can come in and supplement bottom-6 scoring, isn't that a bit concerning? Like having that high amount of waiver-wire guys rather than home-grown talent? i do agree harkins did look solid in his stint, i actually preferred his game than most of those players but much like harkins he does fizzle out after a few hot games and then it's back to irrelevance.

idk how much toews adds. he's a top-6er on CHI playing heavy PP mins. 10/27 pts are on the PP (he wont be seeing much PP time here), he has 12 5v5 pts and a rate of 5v5 pts/60 is 1.24. i don't think that's going to improve playing w/ our bottom-6 & Lowry+Appleton. i have no idea if he's a great driver of offense anymore. the stats would say no. but i don't watch CHI enough to have a real qualified opinion.

overall might be spending too many key-strokes on this lol. we're 10th in GF league-wide, 19th at 5v5 (which is where the absence of bottom-6 scoring would be exemplified).

That's an excellent point. I think some of that has to do with how thin the Jets drafts were between 2018-2021, part going for the playoffs, and part trying to maintain a competitive team without free agency being a factor. Draft picks for De Melo, Dillon, Schmidt, Stastny (twice). A lot of folks say it's easy to sign 4th line guys, but the Jets were only able to get Gagner, Stenlund and Maenalanen as free agents, and all of them are here because they had an opportunity that they might not get elsewhere.

But you look those drafts, Perfetti has made the team, Gustafsson made the team because he started in the NHL at 19. Heinola is somewhere in between. The other prospects from those draft years playing on the Moose are Chisholm, Lundmark, Bauer, Torgersson and Nikkanen. I think you might still be a year or two away from the two forwards being able to contribute. I'd say that same timetable probably applies to Lucius, Mc Groarty and Lambert. A lot of uncertainty still around the 2021 Russian forwards drafted, will they ever get to North America? That to me would be a reason to hold on to some draft currency because that's a prime example of not having enough draft picks to develop into quality prospects that give an internal push. Already 2023 draft is looking thin...unless there are some big moves in the offseason.

 

[Zhamnov5GoalGame]

This is the issue... are we really one good player away from more scoring in the bottom six? It feels like major surgery is required unless we find the perfect player for Lowry.

I think it’s two players unless we find the perfect mix that allowed Gagner to play since he scores pretty well. The 4th would be a bit better by pushing 3rd line guys down and having a pretty deep list of guys competing for those 3 spots.

All depends on the prices and who we can get.

 

[voyageur]

From yesterday's practice c/o of Illegal Curve:

Skate news:
As per Scott Billeck of the Winnipeg Sun a few faces missing from today’s skate including Nikolaj Ehlers, Pierre-Luc Dubois, Dylan DeMelo and Connor Hellebuyck.
Lines & D pairs:
Menalainen-Scheifele-Wheeler
Connor-Stenlund-Perfetti
Barron-Lowry-Kuhlman
AJF-Gagner-Appleton(non-contact)
Morrissey-Pionk
Dillon-Schmidt
Stanley/Samberg/Capobianco rotating together.
Health news:
Head coach Rick Bowness indicated in his media availability (as per Scott) that the guys missing were simply for maintenance as players deal with bumps and bruises.


I'm looking at these combinations and wondering if the Jets don't move towards two defensive pairings that have done well in the past, analytically, Dillon-Schmidt, and Stanley-De Melo, and leave Morrissey-Pionk together to carry the offense.

Who do you think moves out of the lineup to get Appleton into it? While I don't think it's the best move, I could see the Jets demoting Samberg to the Moose until the trade deadline, which then allows rosters to be expanded, to keep him playing, and keep the roster together.

In terms of Gustafsson I think that will get more interesting. Not sure the Jets want to waive Kuhlman to strengthen a competitors depth, because Seattle is not a team with a lot of depth, understandably. Maybe somebody else goes on IR when he comes back. Not sure who is the most injured of the group, or expendable at this point.

 

[Adam da bomb]

From yesterday's practice c/o of Illegal Curve:

Skate news:
As per Scott Billeck of the Winnipeg Sun a few faces missing from today’s skate including Nikolaj Ehlers, Pierre-Luc Dubois, Dylan DeMelo and Connor Hellebuyck.
Lines & D pairs:
Menalainen-Scheifele-Wheeler
Connor-Stenlund-Perfetti
Barron-Lowry-Kuhlman
AJF-Gagner-Appleton(non-contact)
Morrissey-Pionk
Dillon-Schmidt
Stanley/Samberg/Capobianco rotating together.
Health news:
Head coach Rick Bowness indicated in his media availability (as per Scott) that the guys missing were simply for maintenance as players deal with bumps and bruises.


I'm looking at these combinations and wondering if the Jets don't move towards two defensive pairings that have done well in the past, analytically, Dillon-Schmidt, and Stanley-De Melo, and leave Morrissey-Pionk together to carry the offense.

Who do you think moves out of the lineup to get Appleton into it? While I don't think it's the best move, I could see the Jets demoting Samberg to the Moose until the trade deadline, which then allows rosters to be expanded, to keep him playing, and keep the roster together.

In terms of Gustafsson I think that will get more interesting. Not sure the Jets want to waive Kuhlman to strengthen a competitors depth, because Seattle is not a team with a lot of depth, understandably. Maybe somebody else goes on IR when he comes back. Not sure who is the most injured of the group, or expendable at this point.

Giving them Kuhlman Will just make it easier for us to win.

 

[voyageur]

Giving them Kuhlman Will just make it easier for us to win.

That's easy to say but Kuhlman has the best metrics on the PK for any regular this year. He's probably still the only guy that Bowness feels comfortable replacing Appleton with, as Maenalanen has taken a step back since his return.

 

[KingBogo]

That's easy to say but Kuhlman has the best metrics on the PK for any regular this year. He's probably still the only guy that Bowness feels comfortable replacing Appleton with, as Maenalanen has taken a step back since his return.

It will be interesting to see what happens. I don't think the organization wants to lose anyone at this point.

 

[Zhamnov5GoalGame]

From yesterday's practice c/o of Illegal Curve:

Skate news:
As per Scott Billeck of the Winnipeg Sun a few faces missing from today’s skate including Nikolaj Ehlers, Pierre-Luc Dubois, Dylan DeMelo and Connor Hellebuyck.
Lines & D pairs:
Menalainen-Scheifele-Wheeler
Connor-Stenlund-Perfetti
Barron-Lowry-Kuhlman
AJF-Gagner-Appleton(non-contact)
Morrissey-Pionk
Dillon-Schmidt
Stanley/Samberg/Capobianco rotating together.
Health news:
Head coach Rick Bowness indicated in his media availability (as per Scott) that the guys missing were simply for maintenance as players deal with bumps and bruises.


I'm looking at these combinations and wondering if the Jets don't move towards two defensive pairings that have done well in the past, analytically, Dillon-Schmidt, and Stanley-De Melo, and leave Morrissey-Pionk together to carry the offense.

Who do you think moves out of the lineup to get Appleton into it? While I don't think it's the best move, I could see the Jets demoting Samberg to the Moose until the trade deadline, which then allows rosters to be expanded, to keep him playing, and keep the roster together.

In terms of Gustafsson I think that will get more interesting. Not sure the Jets want to waive Kuhlman to strengthen a competitors depth, because Seattle is not a team with a lot of depth, understandably. Maybe somebody else goes on IR when he comes back. Not sure who is the most injured of the group, or expendable at this point.

Morrissey’s results with Pionk have been poor. I’m hoping Samberg rotates back in. Maybe Saku would clear waivers or I guess someone is injured?

Strange that Man-a-lananan played so well for a few games before his injury and has looked the complete opposite since he came back.

Bottom 6
Lowry in his own tier and untouchable
Stenlund seems to have cemented a role as 4C, face off guy and PKer for now.

Barron seems to be ranked above the rest based on usage/opportunity.

AJF - despite not getting the opportunities of some others I think he ranks next for the coaches.

Kulhman/Saku have been options for the 3rd line and higher but also seem like the most expendable.

Gus/Gagner currently press box bound. I don’t see the team moving Gagner and I think Gus holds some value if we lose a C and haven’t added one at the TDL.

It would be cool to see the coaches depth chart to see what their unfiltered true rankings of these guys are.

 

[Arthur Fonzarelli]

It will be interesting to see what happens. I don't think the organization wants to lose anyone at this point.

As soon as Appleton & Gustafsson are off IR the roster will be at 25. They'll necessitate two players being waived to the Moose as only Perfetti & Samberg are waivers exempt. With Stanley back, perhaps Samberg goes down. Even then someone is getting waived.

Take your pick. It's one of Stenlund, Gagner, Barron, Fjabllby, Kuhlman, Gustafsson or Maenalanen.

Since Appleton is basically ready, the only way this doesn't occur is if the Jets can make it to the trading deadline with Gustaffson on IR. After which the team can carry a 23+ man roster. Wit that said Bowness stated late last week that both were nearly ready. I can't see Gus staying on IR for another month.

 

[KingBogo]

As soon as Appleton & Gustafsson are off IR the roster will be at 25. They'll be two players being waived to the Moose as only Perfetti & Samberg are waivers exempt. With Stanley back, perhaps Samberg goes down. Even then someone is getting waived.

Take your pick. It's one of Stenlund, Gagner, Barron, Fjabllby, Kuhlman, Gustafsson or Maenalanen.

Since Appleton is basically ready, the only way this doesn't occur is if the Jets can make it to the trading deadline with Gustaffson on IR. After which the team can carry a 23+ man roster.

I wonder if Gus could be sent to the Moose for a conditioning stint to buy some time? I'm also guessing Kuhlman is the 1st to be waived.

 

[Arthur Fonzarelli]

I wonder if Gus could be sent to the Moose for a conditioning stint to buy some time? I'm also guessing Kuhlman is the 1st to be waived.

A conditioning stint would be a good angle.

"The standard form of the loan lasts for 14 consecutive days. The player is sent to the AHL, plays in whatever games he’s assigned and then returns to the NHL at the end. His salary is paid as if he’s in the NHL, and the player counts against the salary cap. A team has to have the kind of cap situation that allows for enough players as extras to make this possible."

All of this is possible for Chevy who's loads of space at his disposal. Gus' AAV is league minimum so the daily cap hit over a handful of weeks shouldn't affect the Jets deadline cap hit too badly.

With that said, "The Commissioner has the right to investigate the circumstances of any loan, so teams cannot use the loan to evade waivers or the salary cap. Players must consent to conditioning loans as well."

 

[NA Hockey]

 

[surixon]

View attachment 643152

Yeah I still don't know why thay line was broken up over one bad game.

 

[DRW204]

That's an excellent point. I think some of that has to do with how thin the Jets drafts were between 2018-2021, part going for the playoffs, and part trying to maintain a competitive team without free agency being a factor. Draft picks for De Melo, Dillon, Schmidt, Stastny (twice). A lot of folks say it's easy to sign 4th line guys, but the Jets were only able to get Gagner, Stenlund and Maenalanen as free agents, and all of them are here because they had an opportunity that they might not get elsewhere.

But you look those drafts, Perfetti has made the team, Gustafsson made the team because he started in the NHL at 19. Heinola is somewhere in between. The other prospects from those draft years playing on the Moose are Chisholm, Lundmark, Bauer, Torgersson and Nikkanen. I think you might still be a year or two away from the two forwards being able to contribute. I'd say that same timetable probably applies to Lucius, Mc Groarty and Lambert. A lot of uncertainty still around the 2021 Russian forwards drafted, will they ever get to North America? That to me would be a reason to hold on to some draft currency because that's a prime example of not having enough draft picks to develop into quality prospects that give an internal push. Already 2023 draft is looking thin...unless there are some big moves in the offseason.

i just think their drafting is a bit overrated, especially for a team labelled as draft-and-develop. i understand they did trade some picks as you noted, but they did have roughly 5 picks/year during your time-frame. & look at 2017, 2016 too. Beyond the 1st, where you need to make your money, their record hasn't been great. If Gus is your saving grace on the fwds, a guy who hadn't scored since like 10 covid boosters ago, that's pretty bad id say. And he is getting outplayed by Stenlund, and now I get why they brought in the Thompson's of the world.

Samberg is starting to play a bit better tho. But I still dunno if there's a consistent top 4 d there. He's draft+6 and 24 years old. It may be possible he is closer to "is what he is"

All those 2021, 2022 picks u mentioned it's far to early to label them anything.

 

[gojetsgo]

wonder if we send someone down tomorrow then and gain more deadline space

 

[10Ducky10]

wonder if we send someone down tomorrow then and gain more deadline space

February 11th, I think he means.

 

[KingBogo]

wonder if we send someone down tomorrow then and gain more deadline space

Kind of missed this yesterday, but very unlikely you send someone down. Your options are losing someone on waivers or sending Perfetti or Samberg down. Which would be a real shitty thing for the organization to do. Guess what Cole and Dylon instead of that family vacation you were planning and looking forward to we decided to give a couple extra weeks work on the Moose and by the way you will lose 90% of your pay while you’re doing it.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Kind of missed this yesterday, but very unlikely you send someone down. Your options are losing someone on waivers or sending Perfetti or Samberg down. Which would be a real shitty thing for the organization to do. Guess what Cole and Dylon instead of that family vacation you were planning and looking forward to we decided to give a couple extra weeks work on the Moose and by the way you will lose 90% of your pay while you’re doing it.

Yep shitty way to build loyalty to pieces that could be very important in future like top 6 and top 4 pieces to keep a waiver wire player like Kuhlman. If they did that it would come back and bite them in the future.

 

[surixon]

Kind of missed this yesterday, but very unlikely you send someone down. Your options are losing someone on waivers or sending Perfetti or Samberg down. Which would be a real shitty thing for the organization to do. Guess what Cole and Dylon instead of that family vacation you were planning and looking forward to we decided to give a couple extra weeks work on the Moose and by the way you will lose 90% of your pay while you’re doing it.

Yup both are clearly NHL players now that are or are trending to top 6/top 4 roles. You don't disrespect them by sending them down and cutting their pay to accrue a tiny bit more cap space.

 

[gojetsgo]

wasn't talking about sending down samberg/perfetti/barron was talking about sending down one of the bottom 6 early that we are going to need to waive anyways to activate appleton off of the ir, unless demelo remains out for more games

 

[voyageur]

I wonder if Gus could be sent to the Moose for a conditioning stint to buy some time? I'm also guessing Kuhlman is the 1st to be waived.

From Illegal Curve:

After the game last night that saw the Jets defeat the Blues 4-2 the bench boss of Winnipeg was asked for additional clarity when it comes to DeMelo and if they still expect him back when they return from the break. Bowness indicated:

“We’re hoping that he’ll be able to skate. We’re not certain on that and we won’t know for another five or six days. He’s getting treatments and we’re hoping that when we come back on the 9th, he’s on the ice.”

DeMelo has had a nice season with two goals and 14 assists in 46 games for the Jets.

Earlier in the day during his media availability following morning skate Bowness had indicated that the Jets expect Mason Appleton to play on the 11th. He also said that he spoke with David Gustafsson who hopes to be skating again on the 9th and then “we’ll see where he is. He’ll need some time.”.

Sounds like you could be right on this one. If the Jets can stretch out his injury return another week from their first game back, the conditioning stint would give them until the deadline to keep him off the roster.

Kuhlman being waived when Appleton comes back would make sense, but if De Melo isn't good to go, maybe he ends up on IR for a couple of weeks to bide some time.