2022-23 Roster Discussion

[surixon]

Yes, you're close to what I'm getting at -
And, if they are adding a scoring winger before / at the deadlines, you now know where it might be slotted

Well Bones made it no secret that he's not happy with the last 5 games and how they have played.

Maybe it's a sign of confidence in Cole's d game that he can slot with Lowry while he trys to get the other players to get back to simplifying things. I just worry about offense coming from that line and haven't liked Cole and Adam in the ozone because they read the plays differently.

 

[LowLefty]

Well Bones made it no secret that he's not happy with the last 5 games and how they have played.

Maybe it's a sign of confidence in Cole's d game that he can slot with Lowry while he trys to get the other players to get back to simplifying things. I just worry about offense coming from that line and haven't liked Cole and Adam in the ozone because they read the plays differently.

I certainly don't think of it as a demotion for Cole -
My last point was on the offense - if they add a winger before the deadline, that player may land on the other side of Lowry - and maybe then you have a scoring line (playmaker, hard driving center, scorer)

 

[Zhamnov5GoalGame]

agreed. but this will be perfetti's chance to drive a line offensively. so far career-to-date he's been stapled next to elite players such as scheifele, connor and pld. and another good top-6er in wheeler. Lowry has a a bit more offense this year, however i don't really see the hype in Saku M's game other than being big. doesn't really add much or a standout at 5v5 imo. this is where i think the Jets would need another middle-6er for the POs. barron is another player who has a bunch of physical tools, but really the production isn't there. this is a chance for him to show-case if he has top-6er potential.

also, perfetti could be a bottom-6 guy in the POs if the Jets make an addition. so would be wise to see how he looks with those linemates.

But realistically putting Perfetti on Lowry's line means they aren't really suited to check the other teams top lines.
It will be harder for Cole to create offense and harder for Lowry to forecheck and cycle in the offensive end.
Sort of a lose/lose.

For me moving to 3 scoring lines would require the addition of 2 offensive players via trade. One to play in the top 6 and one to play on the "new line" with the player moved down to play on that line. Or you just put both new players together with someone like Barron.

 

[surixon]

I certainly don't think of it as a demotion for Cole -
My last point was on the offense - if they add a winger before the deadline, that player may land on the other side of Lowry - and maybe then you have a scoring line (playmaker, hard driving center, scorer)

Agreed. Many good teams have two offensive drivers and a compliment to round things out. No issue trialing things out to see if we have some of the pieces necessary to build the balanced top 9 most contenders have.

But realistically putting Perfetti on Lowry's line means they aren't really suited to check the other teams top lines.
It will be harder for Cole to create offense and harder for Lowry to forecheck and cycle in the offensive end.
Sort of a lose/lose.

For me moving to 3 scoring lines would require the addition of 2 offensive players via trade. One to play in the top 6 and one to play on the "new line" with the player moved down to play on that line. Or you just put both new players together with someone like Barron.

The Lowry line hasn't exactly been all that great at checking the past few years. Perhaps they don't believe they have the pieces to really run with a hard matchup suppression line and will now balance the lines ans balance the matchups.

But I do tend to think this is more about getting our established offensive players to get back to a more simplified game.

I think this is also about getting Cole to shoot more. I'm sure he knows Cole and Mark play extremely well in the ozone together but Cole imo is getting a bit too comfortable looking to pass almost all the time. Playing with Lowry and Saku takes the elite trigger man option off his line and likely forces him to shoot more. I want all our players to be well rounded so I don't mind putting Cole in a position where he's going to learn a bit more defense but also is going to have to take more of an ownership on scoring on his new line.

I also think taking Cole away from Mark forces him to simplify. Ehlers playing with Mark also forces him to get his feet moving and to get his tempo back up.

Wheeler I think quiets down Conner and PLD as well as it gets the puck back into their hands more.

 

[DRW204]

But realistically putting Perfetti on Lowry's line means they aren't really suited to check the other teams top lines.
It will be harder for Cole to create offense and harder for Lowry to forecheck and cycle in the offensive end.
Sort of a lose/lose.

For me moving to 3 scoring lines would require the addition of 2 offensive players via trade. One to play in the top 6 and one to play on the "new line" with the player moved down to play on that line. Or you just put both new players together with someone like Barron.

it is an away game so he wont be dictating matchups so not sure how much that comes into play. nevertheless, i don't mind them altering the lines close to the TDL. Like you said, if it's 1-2 additions via trades, a guy like Perfetti who has had a pretty elite set of linemates so far might need to get used to a different set of skills/play-style. i agree, they need a better offensive skilled/IQ winger on the other side though. Additionally, seeing Barron in a top-6 role doesn't hurt either.

 

[RabidOne]

Agreed. Many good teams have two offensive drivers and a compliment to round things out. No issue trialing things out to see if we have some of the pieces necessary to build the balanced top 9 most contenders have.



The Lowry line hasn't exactly been all that great at checking the past few years. Perhaps they don't believe they have the pieces to really run with a hard matchup suppression line and will now balance the lines ans balance the matchups.

But I do tend to think this is more about getting our established offensive players to get back to a more simplified game.

I think this is also about getting Cole to shoot more. I'm sure he knows Cole and Mark play extremely well in the ozone together but Cole imo is getting a bit too comfortable looking to pass almost all the time. Playing with Lowry and Saku takes the elite trigger man option off his line and likely forces him to shoot more. I want all our players to be well rounded so I don't mind putting Cole in a position where he's going to learn a bit more defense but also is going to have to take more of an ownership on scoring on his new line.

I also think taking Cole away from Mark forces him to simplify. Ehlers playing with Mark also forces him to get his feet moving and to get his tempo back up.

Wheeler I think quiets down Conner and PLD as well as it gets the puck back into their hands more.

100%

 

[Zhamnov5GoalGame]

The Lowry line hasn't exactly been all that great at checking the past few years. Perhaps they don't believe they have the pieces to really run with a hard matchup suppression line and will now balance the lines ans balance the matchups.

Lowry's line has been used in this role regardless of effectiveness.
Or am I wrong?
It seems like his line is thrown out there against the top players as much as possible from the Jets coaching staff perspective.

 

[voyageur]

Lowry's line has been used in this role regardless of effectiveness.
Or am I wrong?
It seems like his line is thrown out there against the top players as much as possible from the Jets coaching staff perspective.

I was just reading an interview last night with Stan Fischler of The Hockey News where Chevy talked about the Jets being built up the middle with Scheifele, Dubois, Lowry. He definitely sees Lowry in the role he is in. Last year was a stinker for him because of linemates I felt. He's still getting shortchanged in terms of quality linemates, when the depth isn't all that strong. As for his ability to defend the best, I think he matches up pretty well, some of the metrics get spun against him, but what's your expectation for a guy that is on the ice in primilarily defensive zone situations? He should have a negative Corsi, at best he might get 50/50 with good linemates. Perfetti, who has been responsible defensively, might help that line create some more offense, I'm not sure this is where everyone will land, seems more like an experiment.

 

[Weezeric]

Agreed. Many good teams have two offensive drivers and a compliment to round things out. No issue trialing things out to see if we have some of the pieces necessary to build the balanced top 9 most contenders have.



The Lowry line hasn't exactly been all that great at checking the past few years. Perhaps they don't believe they have the pieces to really run with a hard matchup suppression line and will now balance the lines ans balance the matchups.

But I do tend to think this is more about getting our established offensive players to get back to a more simplified game.

I think this is also about getting Cole to shoot more. I'm sure he knows Cole and Mark play extremely well in the ozone together but Cole imo is getting a bit too comfortable looking to pass almost all the time. Playing with Lowry and Saku takes the elite trigger man option off his line and likely forces him to shoot more. I want all our players to be well rounded so I don't mind putting Cole in a position where he's going to learn a bit more defense but also is going to have to take more of an ownership on scoring on his new line.

I also think taking Cole away from Mark forces him to simplify. Ehlers playing with Mark also forces him to get his feet moving and to get his tempo back up.

Wheeler I think quiets down Conner and PLD as well as it gets the puck back into their hands more.

Couldn’t agree more with this. Plus, if the Jets are looking to acquire two wingers, it would be nice to see some different combinations. Perfetti-Lowry-Wheeler could end up as the third line potentially.

 

[surixon]

Couldn’t agree more with this. Plus, if the Jets are looking to acquire two wingers, it would be nice to see some different combinations. Perfetti-Lowry-Wheeler could end up as the third line potentially.

Exactly, they are going to need to see if they are able to create a more offensive line with Lowry centering it so might as well give it a couple game look. I didn't mind how Lowry and Cole finished the game together against Montreal. I do think they need a winger with some speed and finish so ideally it wouldn't be Wheeler.

Lowry's line has been used in this role regardless of effectiveness.
Or am I wrong?
It seems like his line is thrown out there against the top players as much as possible from the Jets coaching staff perspective.

Depends on the game. Sometimes Bones elects to hard match Dubois instead.

 

[pictman]

For years we have complained of the overpassing of Scheif, Wheeler and ? They have done a lot less of that this year but have slid back into it since coming back from injuries. When asked about the fancy passing goal a couple of games ago Bones said " take the shot. That play will only work 2 out of 10 times". He gave them a game to fix it then broke them up when they didn't. Great coaching in my opinion. It doesn't mean these lines are permanent. I don't mind them for many of the same reasons as others have pointed out.

 

[KingBogo]

For years we have complained of the overpassing of Scheif, Wheeler and ? They have done a lot less of that this year but have slid back into it since coming back from injuries. When asked about the fancy passing goal a couple of games ago Bones said " take the shot. That play will only work 2 out of 10 times". He gave them a game to fix it then broke them up when they didn't. Great coaching in my opinion. It doesn't mean these lines are permanent. I don't mind them for many of the same reasons as others have pointed out.

I think you are reading more into it then there is. If Bones tries to strangle the creativity out of our top 6, Chevy may as well trade Perfetti now, as in a couple years he is very likely to be one of the top couple creative play makers in the NHL.

 

[voyageur]

I think you are reading more into it then there is. If Bones tries to strangle the creativity out of our top 6, Chevy may as well trade Perfetti now, as in a couple years he is very likely to be one of the top couple creative play makers in the NHL.

I just wonder if the move wasn't made because of the teams on this road trip. Toronto usually plays us pretty dirty. There's a grudge that has existed since the whole Pionk/Lillegren/Spezza incident that devolved, or Dubois mauling Matthews. You are on the road where you can't protect matchups, Bones might have some peace of mind knowing that Perfetti has Adam Lowry on the same line. Same thing when you go into Philly and they have their wrecking ball 4th line.

 

[KingBogo]

I just wonder if the move wasn't made because of the teams on this road trip. Toronto usually plays us pretty dirty. There's a grudge that has existed since the whole Pionk/Lillegren/Spezza incident that devolved, or Dubois mauling Matthews. You are on the road where you can't protect matchups, Bones might have some peace of mind knowing that Perfetti has Adam Lowry on the same line. Same thing when you go into Philly and they have their wrecking ball 4th line.

I think you are probably right. Here is a quotes from Perfetti and Bones after the optional skate this morning:

Perfetti: When we're going strong, all four lines are playing the same way and looking the same way," said Perfetti. "Lows and Saku are big guys, they're strong powerful guys. I think we can work really well together if we get down low. They're really big, they free up a lot of pucks, and work really hard. We might be able to complement each other really well."

The concept of that trio is all about creating a bit more space for Perfetti, says Bowness, adding that the young forward excels when he has a little time and space.

Bones: "He sees the ice very well. He has a good hockey IQ, he knows where people are and he hangs onto pucks," said Bowness. "We're on the road, we don't get last line change. Give him some big physical guys that can help him defensively and help him protect the puck in the o-zone, give him a little extra room. We'll take a look at that."

 

[gojetsgo]

 

[JetsFan815]

Don't tell the genius behind the bench that some people have Samberg in Calder conversation:

 

[DRW204]

bowness, chevy and co. HAS to be concerned a bit about our bottom-6 right now for a PO push.

i think during a regular season, you can get by with a great top-6 and great goaltending, which we evidently have. but i believe in a PO series, when you're playing top teams, tighter checking and the margins are thinner in talent, that's when your bottom-6, or notably 3rd lines shine. hence why TBL's run included a great 3rd line, or PIT with HBK. I'll even throw in STL there with a combo of Thomas and Bozak on their 3rd.

after a pretty hot start, Lowry is now 0-goals in his last 23 gp with 7 assists & overall a (-10) at 5v5. fully aware it sounds like i am picking on him, but wearing an A, bring entrenched as a 3C and making 3.5m i think there is higher onus on him rather than the rest of the group. obviously not ALL on him, his wingers have not been great either & the finishing talent is below-average for all 3, i'd say. i know Barron gets a lot of hype, maybe shiny new toy syndrome not sure, and for sure he has flashes with using his size (i'd hope since he's 6' 4 220) & speed, but other than that .

i just cant see where the offense is going to come from. and really are we going to get by with 2/3 of our bottom-6 composed of 3 waiver wire claimed guys, and someone who was out of the NHL for 4 years? . i am aware AJF and Saku have PK value, but i really think our PK success has been moreso the change in system and style. i think you can sub-in players and still be fine in PK. has anyone really noticed a fall off since Gus has been gone for instance?

 

[voyageur]

bowness, chevy and co. HAS to be concerned a bit about our bottom-6 right now for a PO push.

i think during a regular season, you can get by with a great top-6 and great goaltending, which we evidently have. but i believe in a PO series, when you're playing top teams, tighter checking and the margins are thinner in talent, that's when your bottom-6, or notably 3rd lines shine. hence why TBL's run included a great 3rd line, or PIT with HBK. I'll even throw in STL there with a combo of Thomas and Bozak on their 3rd.

after a pretty hot start, Lowry is now 0-goals in his last 23 gp with 7 assists & overall a (-10) at 5v5. fully aware it sounds like i am picking on him, but wearing an A, bring entrenched as a 3C and making 3.5m i think there is higher onus on him rather than the rest of the group. obviously not ALL on him, his wingers have not been great either & the finishing talent is below-average for all 3, i'd say. i know Barron gets a lot of hype, maybe shiny new toy syndrome not sure, and for sure he has flashes with using his size (i'd hope since he's 6' 4 220) & speed, but other than that .

i just cant see where the offense is going to come from. and really are we going to get by with 2/3 of our bottom-6 composed of 3 waiver wire claimed guys, and someone who was out of the NHL for 4 years? . i am aware AJF and Saku have PK value, but i really think our PK success has been moreso the change in system and style. i think you can sub-in players and still be fine in PK. has anyone really noticed a fall off since Gus has been gone for instance?

Last night Lowry could have scored early in the game, pucked bounced right in front of him with the net open and he couldn't bunt it in. Got an ugly PP assist. But his line was owned, partially because he had another rough night in the circle. Things got even worse for the Jets when he was out though, and I think that's a telling tale, that there is nobody who is going to step up and replace him if he gets injured, and at first I though that hit was like the one Vegas put on him, after he beat the crap out of Reaves, one that knocked him out for a long stretch.

There's something to be said with the lack of talent on the bottom of this team, and I think that affects Lowry as much as anyone.

I think Barron with Lowry gives something Bowness wants, a defensive minded line that can hold possession on the cycle in the offensive zone. But we've seen a significant drop off from Lowry's effectiveness since Harkins was dropped off that line, and eventually sent to the Moose, replaced by Kuhlman.

I am looking at the combination of Maenalanen/AJF/Kuhlman/Stenlund/Gustafsson combining for 13 goals on the season so far, meanwhile Sam Gagner has 8, more than Lowry, more than Perfetti, and he can't get into the lineup. Because he is a defensive liability I suppose, but I wouldn't say any of those other guys are showing much either. Maybe Stenlund, if you take out the Nashville game.

I agree that the team is going to need some secondary scoring to go anywhere. With Lowry now under 50% on the draw, that gives me more hope that the Jets will go for a faceoff ace like Toews to start with the puck and consider moving Lowry to the wing. I think Lowry-Toews-Appleton would be a good checking line that could put some puck in the net. I would consider Toews to be the Copp replacement on what was a successful line for the Jets 2 years ago.

4th line should be at least 2 PKers. The two best at both 5 on 5 and the PK. I don't know where Gagner sits in the organization right now, but he can score goals.

 

[voyageur]

Don't tell the genius behind the bench that some people have Samberg in Calder conversation:

I am not sure who the person in question is but Addison is -14 on the Wild this year, I think he has been anything but great defensively and pretty sure Wild fans would say the same thing. Samberg has among the lowest GA/60 both ES/SH on the team, so he is right on that one.

 

[surixon]

Last night Lowry could have scored early in the game, pucked bounced right in front of him with the net open and he couldn't bunt it in. Got an ugly PP assist. But his line was owned, partially because he had another rough night in the circle. Things got even worse for the Jets when he was out though, and I think that's a telling tale, that there is nobody who is going to step up and replace him if he gets injured, and at first I though that hit was like the one Vegas put on him, after he beat the crap out of Reaves, one that knocked him out for a long stretch.

There's something to be said with the lack of talent on the bottom of this team, and I think that affects Lowry as much as anyone.

I think Barron with Lowry gives something Bowness wants, a defensive minded line that can hold possession on the cycle in the offensive zone. But we've seen a significant drop off from Lowry's effectiveness since Harkins was dropped off that line, and eventually sent to the Moose, replaced by Kuhlman.

I am looking at the combination of Maenalanen/AJF/Kuhlman/Stenlund/Gustafsson combining for 13 goals on the season so far, meanwhile Sam Gagner has 8, more than Lowry, more than Perfetti, and he can't get into the lineup. Because he is a defensive liability I suppose, but I wouldn't say any of those other guys are showing much either. Maybe Stenlund, if you take out the Nashville game.

I agree that the team is going to need some secondary scoring to go anywhere. With Lowry now under 50% on the draw, that gives me more hope that the Jets will go for a faceoff ace like Toews to start with the puck and consider moving Lowry to the wing. I think Lowry-Toews-Appleton would be a good checking line that could put some puck in the net. I would consider Toews to be the Copp replacement on what was a successful line for the Jets 2 years ago.

4th line should be at least 2 PKers. The two best at both 5 on 5 and the PK. I don't know where Gagner sits in the organization right now, but he can score goals.

The issue is the Lowry line hasn't been great defensively. Lowry was offsetting it earlier with above average scoring but now that his scoring has dried up that line isn't contributing much.

I think you need two better wingers to play with him which then allows you to play Barron on the fourth.

 

[voyageur]

The issue is the Lowry line hasn't been great defensively. Lowry was offsetting it earlier with above average scoring but now that his scoring has dried up that line isn't contributing much.

I think you need two better wingers to play with him which then allows you to play Barron on the fourth.

While I agree there's some other things to consider. Last night Kuhlman was definitely the weakest link on that line, but Brendan Dillon had two egregious turnovers that stood out to me, he had more too. At some point I think the Jets have to change up playing Dillon and Pionk behind them, I just don't see a complimentary game between the two, sometimes it's Pionk looking out of place, sometimes it's Dillon looking slow and getting beat. I still think the Jets need another centre, because an injury to Lowry is something I don't think the Jets can weather with this current squad, I don't see Stenlund or Gus able to replace him. That's why I'd be looking to upgrade at centre before any position. I think Adam Lowry under Bones system might be more effective as a winger. Especially if you are looking for a heavier forecheck from your checking line.

 

[WolfHouse]

The issue is the Lowry line hasn't been great defensively. Lowry was offsetting it earlier with above average scoring but now that his scoring has dried up that line isn't contributing much.

I think you need two better wingers to play with him which then allows you to play Barron on the fourth.

Like Lowry-Horvat-Apples?

 

[Duke749]

If we want to improve our bottom 6 we’re either going to have to get Lowry better wingers; or, get a center that can move him to wing.

 

[surixon]

While I agree there's some other things to consider. Last night Kuhlman was definitely the weakest link on that line, but Brendan Dillon had two egregious turnovers that stood out to me, he had more too. At some point I think the Jets have to change up playing Dillon and Pionk behind them, I just don't see a complimentary game between the two, sometimes it's Pionk looking out of place, sometimes it's Dillon looking slow and getting beat. I still think the Jets need another centre, because an injury to Lowry is something I don't think the Jets can weather with this current squad, I don't see Stenlund or Gus able to replace him. That's why I'd be looking to upgrade at centre before any position. I think Adam Lowry under Bones system might be more effective as a winger. Especially if you are looking for a heavier forecheck from your checking line.

The second pairing of Dillion/Pionk has been our Achilles heel on defense the last two seasons. Need to give Schmidt/Dillion a shot at it now and we need to get Snerg back in. No offense to Tree but Snerg is a better player right now.

 

[Slimy Sculpin]

I'm

The second pairing of Dillion/Pionk has been our Achilles heel on defense the last two seasons. Need to give Schmidt/Dillion a shot at it now and we need to get Snerg back in. No offense to Tree but Snerg is a better player right now.

I'm away and haven't been able to follow the Jets that closely other than checking in on this board. From reading the various threads, it seems that Pionk may be a bit of an issue (brings down whatever pairing he'd a part of if I understand correctly) and folks here seem to think that for some strange reason Stanley is getting the nod over Samberg, who at this point, might be the better player. From watching the Jets quite closely earlier in the season, I agree on both counts. Is it just me or are there others who think that Coach B had a few tendencies similar to Coach Mo?