2022-23 Roster Discussion

[Gordon112358]

From Illegal Curve:

After the game last night that saw the Jets defeat the Blues 4-2 the bench boss of Winnipeg was asked for additional clarity when it comes to DeMelo and if they still expect him back when they return from the break. Bowness indicated:

“We’re hoping that he’ll be able to skate. We’re not certain on that and we won’t know for another five or six days. He’s getting treatments and we’re hoping that when we come back on the 9th, he’s on the ice.”

DeMelo has had a nice season with two goals and 14 assists in 46 games for the Jets.

Earlier in the day during his media availability following morning skate Bowness had indicated that the Jets expect Mason Appleton to play on the 11th. He also said that he spoke with David Gustafsson who hopes to be skating again on the 9th and then “we’ll see where he is. He’ll need some time.”.

Sounds like you could be right on this one. If the Jets can stretch out his injury return another week from their first game back, the conditioning stint would give them until the deadline to keep him off the roster.

Kuhlman being waived when Appleton comes back would make sense, but if De Melo isn't good to go, maybe he ends up on IR for a couple of weeks to bide some time.

I think my window of patience for David Gustafsson is over. This guy has been constantly injured ever since he was drafted. I think it's time to cut him loose.

 

[voyageur]

I think my window of patience for David Gustafsson is over. This guy has been constantly injured ever since he was drafted. I think it's time to cut him loose.

Starting him in the NHL at 19 years old has thrown off his development curve a bit. If he had stayed on the Moose for his inaugural season, the Jets would still be able to demote him. Instead they are forced to make a decision on a kid who doesn't turn 23 until the playoffs.

I'd like to see him play out his contract, by then the Jets should know whether Nikkanen is a suitable replacement. I still like some elements of his game more than Stenlund's at centre, and I don't think you'll see Toninato back in a Jets uniform, so I'd be hesitant to let a centre go for nothing so quickly in his career. I'd rather lose Kuhlman than Gustafsson at this point.

 

[gojetsgo]

Connor McDavid and 'Multi-National' Hockey League players top TSN's Top 25 list | TSN

Woe, Canada? Pro, world? Take your pick. Unanimous No. 1 Connor McDavid is the only Canadian in the upper echelon of TSN’s mid-season NHL Top 25 Players.

www.tsn.ca

16. Helle
17. JMO
21. Connor

 

[DRW204]

I think my window of patience for David Gustafsson is over. This guy has been constantly injured ever since he was drafted. I think it's time to cut him loose.

any talks of him becoming "lowry replacement" are seemingly dwindling. he did have a solid offensive showing in the AHL as a 20 year old but evidently hasn't meant much. the Jets have lost the shot/chance/goal-share while he's been on the ice so whatever value he brings defensively, doesn't make up for the lack offense. & this is against other team's 4th lines. i kind of understand why Chevy brings in those much maligned vet 4th liners now. the alternative is just as bad, or even worse.

i think they still keep him around. they hardly ever just cut guys loose like that. but as for a trade-chip or anything i don't think he has much value from another team's POV.

Connor McDavid and 'Multi-National' Hockey League players top TSN's Top 25 list | TSN

Woe, Canada? Pro, world? Take your pick. Unanimous No. 1 Connor McDavid is the only Canadian in the upper echelon of TSN’s mid-season NHL Top 25 Players.

www.tsn.ca

16. Helle
17. JMO
21. Connor

not always the biggest fan of rankings Fwd, D and G among each other.

Helle at #2 ranked goalie (although ridiculous he was not-ranked as a top-50 player in the pre-season)
Morrissey at #3 ranked D

probably should quiet down some of the supposed Winnipeg bias on here for a bit lol.

 

[RabidOne]

i just think their drafting is a bit overrated, especially for a team labelled as draft-and-develop. i understand they did trade some picks as you noted, but they did have roughly 5 picks/year during your time-frame. & look at 2017, 2016 too. Beyond the 1st, where you need to make your money, their record hasn't been great. If Gus is your saving grace on the fwds, a guy who hadn't scored since like 10 covid boosters ago, that's pretty bad id say. And he is getting outplayed by Stenlund, and now I get why they brought in the Thompson's of the world.

Samberg is starting to play a bit better tho. But I still dunno if there's a consistent top 4 d there. He's draft+6 and 24 years old. It may be possible he is closer to "is what he is"

All those 2021, 2022 picks u mentioned it's far to early to label them anything.

Earlier in the season I saw quite a few of those gaffes like Heinola's last one where you could see Samberg was just trying to get rid of the puck under pressure and giving it away. With more time he seems to have calmed down quite a bit.

 

[DRW204]

Earlier in the season I saw quite a few of those gaffes like Heinola's last one where you could see Samberg was just trying to get rid of the puck under pressure and giving it away. With more time he seems to have calmed down quite a bit.

Sambergs puck skills definitely have been hit or miss this year. It's been alot better as of late and I'd say he's sliding into a good 3rd pair defender, and doing it without Demelo which is key.

Heinola isn't near as good defensively, so even with the gaffes you detail, he does not atleast have the defensive play to fall-back on.

I liked heinola. AHL numbers looked solid, same with his pro European ones. But he hasn't done much in the nhl which is what matters. Once you see the vets ahead of him, along with a similarly aged samberg playing better, Idk where he fits. It's 3 coaches now that see him not as an nhl regular.

Part of managing assets is capitalizing when the values are at its highest if you don't see them as a long term fit. Heinola might be that as a trade piece.

 

[Zhamnov5GoalGame]

Connor McDavid and 'Multi-National' Hockey League players top TSN's Top 25 list | TSN

Woe, Canada? Pro, world? Take your pick. Unanimous No. 1 Connor McDavid is the only Canadian in the upper echelon of TSN’s mid-season NHL Top 25 Players.

www.tsn.ca

16. Helle
17. JMO
21. Connor

JMO is the only "Canadian" listed there.

 

[RabidOne]

Sambergs puck skills definitely have been hit or miss this year. It's been alot better as of late and I'd say he's sliding into a good 3rd pair defender, and doing it without Demelo which is key.

Heinola isn't near as good defensively, so even with the gaffes you detail, he does not atleast have the defensive play to fall-back on.

I liked heinola. AHL numbers looked solid, same with his pro European ones. But he hasn't done much in the nhl which is what matters. Once you see the vets ahead of him, along with a similarly aged samberg playing better, Idk where he fits. It's 3 coaches now that see him not as an nhl regular.

Part of managing assets is capitalizing when the values are at its highest if you don't see them as a long term fit. Heinola might be that as a trade piece.

I am willing to give Heinola more time. Samberg is only making a dent this year and he is 2 years older.

 

[DRW204]

I am willing to give Heinola more time. Samberg is only making a dent this year and he is 2 years older.

That's fair. I'd say Samberg made a minor dent last year though. Can you say over a collection of games heinola has looked as good as Samberg's? Even if you isolate it to just last season to try and account for the minor age difference. This is coming from someone who had heinola>samberg as a prospect.

I just don't really see how with the players ahead of him that the opportunities change next year. I remember hearing it was a Maurice problem on here.... Well it's 3 staffs now that don't view him as a regular.

Then consider probably 7 of our nhl dmen rate better than him (again, all signed next year.). We'll see if they open up a regular spot for him via trade. I'm a bit doubtful of that but maybe they do .

 

[Jet]

Kind of missed this yesterday, but very unlikely you send someone down. Your options are losing someone on waivers or sending Perfetti or Samberg down. Which would be a real shitty thing for the organization to do. Guess what Cole and Dylon instead of that family vacation you were planning and looking forward to we decided to give a couple extra weeks work on the Moose and by the way you will lose 90% of your pay while you’re doing it.

I think the guys understand it. As long as you frame it correctly. In my mind they don't send Perfetti down as his skillset is not replicated on the current roster by anyone still up (in terms of the pool of replacement players). Samberg could be replaced by Capo pretty easily, and it would only be temporary until the next injury, but hopefully when the rosters expand. I'm sure Samberg understands the mission for the team this year and that you don't want to lose depth unnecesarily

PS - just to be clear I'd rather waive Kuhlman as I don't think he brings much, but I think the org likes him and might want to hang onto him. He'd probably clear waivers as I don't see a team wanting to force him on the roster. However, a team dealing away good players for prospects might have a spot for him so who knows.

 

[KingBogo]

I think the guys understand it. As long as you frame it correctly. In my mind they don't send Perfetti down as his skillset is not replicated on the current roster by anyone still up (in terms of the pool of replacement players). Samberg could be replaced by Capo pretty easily, and it would only be temporary until the next injury, but hopefully when the rosters expand. I'm sure Samberg understands the mission for the team this year and that you don't want to lose depth unnecesarily

PS - just to be clear I'd rather waive Kuhlman as I don't think he brings much, but I think the org likes him and might want to hang onto him. He'd probably clear waivers as I don't see a team wanting to force him on the roster. However, a team dealing away good players for prospects might have a spot for him so who knows.

The conversation was about sending them down during the break to save cap space, which would be pretty unfair since the kid no doubt had vacation plans, most likely going home to visit family and friends.

 

[KingBogo]

I am willing to give Heinola more time. Samberg is only making a dent this year and he is 2 years older.

But Samberg is starting to make a considerable dent, and it is growing with each game. He is far ahead of Heinola at this point. Samberg has moved into the top handful of Jets in terms of underlying metrics. He has a CF% 54.55, xGF% 54.78 and a HDCF% 57.89. This is really strong progress and likely someone soon pushing into the 2nd pairing in terms of impact.

 

[Gm0ney]

I don't know - it's tough to evaluate Heinola. He's in and out of the lineup. Every time he puts together a few games in a row and starts looking comfortable, he's pulled out and then sits for at least a couple of weeks then thrown back in and looks bad.

Compare and contrast with Samberg over the last two years at even strength. He was given a good run of games as Stanley's replacement this year and has done well. Samberg's most common partner has been Nate Schmidt. They've had 206 minutes and put up good results. Heinola's only had 51 minutes, but has also done well with Schmidt.

	Partner	TOI	CF%	GF%	xGF%
Samberg	Schmidt	206:12	59.00%	59.09%	58.29%
Heinola	Schmidt	51:18	50.00%	66.67%	53.58%

Heinola's most common partner, OTOH is noted defensive specialist Neal Pionk - who has been described as a "lord of chaos in all zones" and "drags down whoever he's paired with". Samberg's also seen quite a bit of time with Pionk - he's his 2nd most common partner. While you wouldn't call the results for either guy great, 21 year old jerked in and out of the lineup Heinola's actually performed slightly better.

	Partner	TOI	CF%	GF%	xGF%
Samberg	Pionk	170:43	41.55%	50.00%	38.68%
Heinola	Pionk	108:40	45.60%	50.00%	45.02%

Samberg's 3rd most common partner is DeMelo, who he's played 127 minutes with over the last 2 seasons - a steady defensive partner and certainly what I'd consider a good player to throw out there with a rookie to help him get his feet wet. Heinola's been given only 11 minutes over 2 seasons with DeMelo. Hmmm... (I was filtering at 20 TOI over 2 seasons to try to weed out the super small samples).

	Partner	TOI	CF%	GF%	xGF%
Samberg	DeMelo	127:04	55.75%	57.14%	63.86%
Heinola	DeMelo	< 12

Both have played with Dillon. Samberg good, Heinola bad:

	Partner	TOI	CF%	GF%	xGF%
Samberg	Dillon	99:02	53.71%	62.50%	61.98%
Heinola	Dillon	43:26	49.28%	20.00%	46.92%

They've played together a bit as well with good results:

	Partner	TOI	CF%	GF%	xGF%
Samberg	Heinola	40:17	53.54%	33.33%	54.29%

So I dunno. Maybe give the guy a lengthy run of games with a decent partner. Keep him away from Pionk. Keep everyone away from Pionk. Maybe send Pionk away. See what happens.

 

[Jet]

The conversation was about sending them down during the break to save cap space, which would be pretty unfair since the kid no doubt had vacation plans, most likely going home to visit family and friends.

Ohhhhhhhh sorry. Yeah, I agree

 

[KingBogo]

I don't know - it's tough to evaluate Heinola. He's in and out of the lineup. Every time he puts together a few games in a row and starts looking comfortable, he's pulled out and then sits for at least a couple of weeks then thrown back in and looks bad.

Compare and contrast with Samberg over the last two years at even strength. He was given a good run of games as Stanley's replacement this year and has done well. Samberg's most common partner has been Nate Schmidt. They've had 206 minutes and put up good results. Heinola's only had 51 minutes, but has also done well with Schmidt.

	Partner	TOI	CF%	GF%	xGF%
Samberg	Schmidt	206:12	59.00%	59.09%	58.29%
Heinola	Schmidt	51:18	50.00%	66.67%	53.58%

Heinola's most common partner, OTOH is noted defensive specialist Neal Pionk - who has been described as a "lord of chaos in all zones" and "drags down whoever he's paired with". Samberg's also seen quite a bit of time with Pionk - he's his 2nd most common partner. While you wouldn't call the results for either guy great, 21 year old jerked in and out of the lineup Heinola's actually performed slightly better.

	Partner	TOI	CF%	GF%	xGF%
Samberg	Pionk	170:43	41.55%	50.00%	38.68%
Heinola	Pionk	108:40	45.60%	50.00%	45.02%

Samberg's 3rd most common partner is DeMelo, who he's played 127 minutes with over the last 2 seasons - a steady defensive partner and certainly what I'd consider a good player to throw out there with a rookie to help him get his feet wet. Heinola's been given only 11 minutes over 2 seasons with DeMelo. Hmmm... (I was filtering at 20 TOI over 2 seasons to try to weed out the super small samples).

	Partner	TOI	CF%	GF%	xGF%
Samberg	DeMelo	127:04	55.75%	57.14%	63.86%
Heinola	DeMelo	< 12

Both have played with Dillon. Samberg good, Heinola bad:

	Partner	TOI	CF%	GF%	xGF%
Samberg	Dillon	99:02	53.71%	62.50%	61.98%
Heinola	Dillon	43:26	49.28%	20.00%	46.92%

They've played together a bit as well with good results:

	Partner	TOI	CF%	GF%	xGF%
Samberg	Heinola	40:17	53.54%	33.33%	54.29%

So I dunno. Maybe give the guy a lengthy run of games with a decent partner. Keep him away from Pionk. Keep everyone away from Pionk. Maybe send Pionk away. See what happens.

I don't disagree about giving Heinola an extended opportunity, but it most definitely shouldn't be at the expense of Samberg who has been progressing very well and will be an important part of our future. Not the worst idea trading Pionk, just not sure of the market.

 

[Buffdog]

any talks of him becoming "lowry replacement" are seemingly dwindling. he did have a solid offensive showing in the AHL as a 20 year old but evidently hasn't meant much. the Jets have lost the shot/chance/goal-share while he's been on the ice so whatever value he brings defensively, doesn't make up for the lack offense. & this is against other team's 4th lines. i kind of understand why Chevy brings in those much maligned vet 4th liners now. the alternative is just as bad, or even worse.

i think they still keep him around. they hardly ever just cut guys loose like that. but as for a trade-chip or anything i don't think he has much value from another team's POV.


not always the biggest fan of rankings Fwd, D and G among each other.

Helle at #2 ranked goalie (although ridiculous he was not-ranked as a top-50 player in the pre-season)
Morrissey at #3 ranked D

probably should quiet down some of the supposed Winnipeg bias on here for a bit lol.

I'm not ready to quite throw in the towel and call Gus a bust - yet.

He's still 22 (23 in April) and two of his development seasons were f***ed by covid. Maybe that derailment is permanent.

He sure seems injury prone and you're right about all his metrics.

 

[DRW204]

I'm not ready to quite throw in the towel and call Gus a bust - yet.

He's still 22 (23 in April) and two of his development seasons were f***ed by covid. Maybe that derailment is permanent.

He sure seems injury prone and you're right about all his metrics.

how were they f***ed by covid? he played with the moose, and showed some offensive production. were you expecting to him play elsewhere? there are other players around the league who came out just fine from those 2 covid years.

I don't know - it's tough to evaluate Heinola. He's in and out of the lineup. Every time he puts together a few games in a row and starts looking comfortable, he's pulled out and then sits for at least a couple of weeks then thrown back in and looks bad.

Compare and contrast with Samberg over the last two years at even strength. He was given a good run of games as Stanley's replacement this year and has done well. Samberg's most common partner has been Nate Schmidt. They've had 206 minutes and put up good results. Heinola's only had 51 minutes, but has also done well with Schmidt.

	Partner	TOI	CF%	GF%	xGF%
Samberg	Schmidt	206:12	59.00%	59.09%	58.29%
Heinola	Schmidt	51:18	50.00%	66.67%	53.58%

Heinola's most common partner, OTOH is noted defensive specialist Neal Pionk - who has been described as a "lord of chaos in all zones" and "drags down whoever he's paired with". Samberg's also seen quite a bit of time with Pionk - he's his 2nd most common partner. While you wouldn't call the results for either guy great, 21 year old jerked in and out of the lineup Heinola's actually performed slightly better.

	Partner	TOI	CF%	GF%	xGF%
Samberg	Pionk	170:43	41.55%	50.00%	38.68%
Heinola	Pionk	108:40	45.60%	50.00%	45.02%

Samberg's 3rd most common partner is DeMelo, who he's played 127 minutes with over the last 2 seasons - a steady defensive partner and certainly what I'd consider a good player to throw out there with a rookie to help him get his feet wet. Heinola's been given only 11 minutes over 2 seasons with DeMelo. Hmmm... (I was filtering at 20 TOI over 2 seasons to try to weed out the super small samples).

	Partner	TOI	CF%	GF%	xGF%
Samberg	DeMelo	127:04	55.75%	57.14%	63.86%
Heinola	DeMelo	< 12

Both have played with Dillon. Samberg good, Heinola bad:

	Partner	TOI	CF%	GF%	xGF%
Samberg	Dillon	99:02	53.71%	62.50%	61.98%
Heinola	Dillon	43:26	49.28%	20.00%	46.92%

They've played together a bit as well with good results:

	Partner	TOI	CF%	GF%	xGF%
Samberg	Heinola	40:17	53.54%	33.33%	54.29%

So I dunno. Maybe give the guy a lengthy run of games with a decent partner. Keep him away from Pionk. Keep everyone away from Pionk. Maybe send Pionk away. See what happens.

so who is sitting for him? & next year, how do you get him in the line-up as a regular? do you really think Chevy is going to trade one of the vets to let heinola have a spot? i am a bit doubtful

 

[Buffdog]

how were they f***ed by covid? he played with the moose, and showed some offensive production. were you expecting to him play elsewhere? there are other players around the league who came out just fine from those 2 covid years.

so who is sitting for him? & next year, how do you get him in the line-up as a regular? do you really think Chevy is going to trade one of the vets to let heinola have a spot? i am a bit doubtful

I'd argue that covid f***ed with every kids development. Bubbles, taxi squads, stress involved with isolation. How could you say it didn't f*** with him?

2020-2021 he played a total 40 games for three different teams on two continents as a 20 year old

 

[DRW204]

I'd argue that covid f***ed with every kids development. Bubbles, taxi squads, stress involved with isolation. How could you say it didn't f*** with him?

2020-2021 he played a total 40 games for three different teams on two continents as a 20 year old

doesnt really answer the question. everyone went through this, it's not unique to him. i am asking how has his game been f***ed by it meanwhile others have seemingly been fine. where else were you expecting him to play during that time? and secondly, he was at his best production-wise during the covid years.

not saying it was all rainbows and unicorns during that time, b/c i lived through it too, but to say development f***ed? idk about that. especially when he was playing at his best, and others went through the exact same circumstances.

unless something happened to him like marco rossi or byram (myocarditis, vertigo) which i am unaware of.

id say injuries were perhaps more of an individual derailment than covid. that 2020-2021 season he started in europe came to NA when things opened up (i dont think it's abnormal for someone to do this). he was hurt, got some nhl time, played 22/36 moose games.

 

[Howard Chuck]

I don't know - it's tough to evaluate Heinola. He's in and out of the lineup. Every time he puts together a few games in a row and starts looking comfortable, he's pulled out and then sits for at least a couple of weeks then thrown back in and looks bad.

Compare and contrast with Samberg over the last two years at even strength. He was given a good run of games as Stanley's replacement this year and has done well. Samberg's most common partner has been Nate Schmidt. They've had 206 minutes and put up good results. Heinola's only had 51 minutes, but has also done well with Schmidt.

	Partner	TOI	CF%	GF%	xGF%
Samberg	Schmidt	206:12	59.00%	59.09%	58.29%
Heinola	Schmidt	51:18	50.00%	66.67%	53.58%

Heinola's most common partner, OTOH is noted defensive specialist Neal Pionk - who has been described as a "lord of chaos in all zones" and "drags down whoever he's paired with". Samberg's also seen quite a bit of time with Pionk - he's his 2nd most common partner. While you wouldn't call the results for either guy great, 21 year old jerked in and out of the lineup Heinola's actually performed slightly better.

	Partner	TOI	CF%	GF%	xGF%
Samberg	Pionk	170:43	41.55%	50.00%	38.68%
Heinola	Pionk	108:40	45.60%	50.00%	45.02%

Samberg's 3rd most common partner is DeMelo, who he's played 127 minutes with over the last 2 seasons - a steady defensive partner and certainly what I'd consider a good player to throw out there with a rookie to help him get his feet wet. Heinola's been given only 11 minutes over 2 seasons with DeMelo. Hmmm... (I was filtering at 20 TOI over 2 seasons to try to weed out the super small samples).

	Partner	TOI	CF%	GF%	xGF%
Samberg	DeMelo	127:04	55.75%	57.14%	63.86%
Heinola	DeMelo	< 12

Both have played with Dillon. Samberg good, Heinola bad:

	Partner	TOI	CF%	GF%	xGF%
Samberg	Dillon	99:02	53.71%	62.50%	61.98%
Heinola	Dillon	43:26	49.28%	20.00%	46.92%

They've played together a bit as well with good results:

	Partner	TOI	CF%	GF%	xGF%
Samberg	Heinola	40:17	53.54%	33.33%	54.29%

So I dunno. Maybe give the guy a lengthy run of games with a decent partner. Keep him away from Pionk. Keep everyone away from Pionk. Maybe send Pionk away. See what happens.

Kind of a risk, but I would like to trade Pionk and take a gamble on Heinola long term. If we had Samberg and Heinola as good cost controlled dmen, that would be awesome.

Take any of my comments on Heinola with a grain of salt, as I’m a huge supporter

 

[surixon]

But Samberg is starting to make a considerable dent, and it is growing with each game. He is far ahead of Heinola at this point. Samberg has moved into the top handful of Jets in terms of underlying metrics. He has a CF% 54.55, xGF% 54.78 and a HDCF% 57.89. This is really strong progress and likely someone soon pushing into the 2nd pairing in terms of impact.

I think the point was he was allowed to grow unto the role and is now looking really good.

Perhaps Ville would make similar strides with a similar opportunity. Too late for that to be this season but hopefully if he's still here next season he does similarly.

 

[Flair Hay]

Not to knock Ville. But I think it's been pretty clear for 2+ years which guy (between he and Samberg) had the skill set made for playing a defensive role in the NHL, and which guy would take time to adapt his game to the pros.

Samberg showing well in the metrics is obviously a great sign.

 

[Adam da bomb]

I think the point was he was allowed to grow unto the role and is now looking really good.

Perhaps Ville would make similar strides with a similar opportunity. Too late for that to be this season but hopefully if he's still here next season he does similarly.

Samberg also brings something in terms of fit. With Pionk, Schmidt this season Heinola brought less. One could say what about the future but the jets seem pretty keen to go for it this season and weren’t going to work him in without serious injuries. I imagine that happens to lots of prospects on competitive teams.

 

[ps241]

Not to knock Ville. But I think it's been pretty clear for 2+ years which guy (between he and Samberg) had the skill set made for playing a defensive role in the NHL, and which guy would take time to adapt his game to the pros.

Samberg showing well in the metrics is obviously a great sign.

That and Ville’s waiver exemption piece. Both Samberg and Stanley were toilet seated when they were waiver exempt as well.

That being said I am happy for Samberg’s continued progression. He defends well.

 

[surixon]

Samberg also brings something in terms of fit. With Pionk, Schmidt this season Heinola brought less. One could say what about the future but the jets seem pretty keen to go for it this season and weren’t going to work him in without serious injuries. I imagine that happens to lots of prospects on competitive teams.

As I pointed out earlier a good comparison is the Leafs with Liljegren and Sandin. Competitive team trying to win who brought in vet dmen. It took a while for both to stick in the NHL. I'm sure there glad that they stuck with them and didn't trade either.