WhatTheDuck
9 - 20 - 8
Just the first goal of the playoffs for Galimov, but probably the biggest of his life
Prospect Info: 2022-23 Ducks Prospects
- Thread starter MMC
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Just the first goal of the playoffs for Galimov, but probably the biggest of his life
Hockey Duckie
Registered User
Your assessment isn't the same as the rest of the scouting media. Many of the offensive smurf forwards were predicted to go earlier in the draft including over Kasper. That's why I found your thought that Minty should have gone higher didn't make much sense from the mass scouting media as well as how the draft went. Here's MyNHLdraft's 2022 mock draft, Minty went 13th: link. Here's NHL.com's 2022 mock draft, Kimelmen had him at 11th & Morreale at 10th: link. the Athletic's Pronman's 2022 mock draft, Minty went 12th: link.
The draft was a surprise to see Wright fall to fourth, Korchinski and Kasper flying high, and many of the offensive smurfs falling.
We drafted Gaucher over Snuggerud and Kulich. There was a good chance that we probably were in on Kasper, but Verbeek's mentor drafted him at 8th overall.
Your preference about LaCombe doesn't say much in-depth, though. Feels like the NCAA guys aren't getting love. I can see LaCombe being pushed to bottom pairing if and only if the other prospects improve their defense. That's a big if. LaCombe has more experience right now defensively over OFD's Drysdale, Minty, and Zellweger. LaCombe shows a high-end ability to block shots in his NCAA career as well as in two NHL games.
Even though I'm praising LaCombe, I don't think he's a sure thing just like I don't think any of our prospects are sure things. I'm hoping that at least half of them pan out, but be amazeballs if 3/4th of them become NHL established. With Fowler's exit in three years, that will be 7 NHL defensive spots open for our prospects and future acquisitions.
WhatTheDuck
9 - 20 - 8
You've stated this a couple times, and it's entirely false.
Drysdale has played 127 games at the pro level (113 in the NHL), Lacombe has played two. There isn't an argument to be made regarding usage, playing style or anything you could possibly come up with, that would make your statement true.
I get that you want to be the high guy on Lacombe but it's taking you to some weird places. Like questioning why people refer to him as a rookie - that's because he literally is a rookie and only has two pro games under his belt.
Dr Johnny Fever
Eggplant and Teal
I should have elaborated but I was on an iPad having breakfast in Yosemite. I was thinking Hinds could be the strong D half and Drysdale could be allowed to us that smooth skating and offensive instincts to develop into more of the Scotty Nieds type O threat.
He is a rookie but 4 years of college is a lot more valid to me then someone that has 3 years of the CHL and one in the AHL. I know that’s not Drysdale and I’m not saying you are wrong about Drysdale being ahead of him, just saying he is a little further along then most players with 2 professional games.
WhatTheDuck
9 - 20 - 8
I think it's definitely fair to have Lacombe ahead of our other D prospects in terms of maturity and NHL readiness, but Drysdale shouldn't be included in that.
Hockey Duckie
Registered User
We're talking about development here, not ceiling potential. We're talking about reality here, not fantasies of what player should be.
- Drysdale, 127 Games after Drafted
- 2020-21: 38 games (14 AHL and 24 NHL)
- 2021-22: 81 NHL games
- 2022-23: 8 NHL games, injured for rest of season
- LaCombe, 142 Games after Drafted
- 2019-20: 37 NCAA games
- 2020-21: 27 NCAA games
- 2021-22: 39 NCAA games
- 2022-23: 37 NCAA games and 2 NHL games
Using games played only loses the context that two seasons have been played and that Drysdale wasn't ready for the NHL for those two seasons. LaCombe's had four consecutive years of physical and game development at the NCAA level.
Am I saying that LaCombe's got the higher ceiling? No. I'm saying he's further developed than Drysdale is right now. You think losing a season in a young defenseman's career isn't a huge setback? This is where you're disingenuous with posting up NHL games played and no context.
- 2021-22 Drysdale Before and After the TDL
- Total: 81 games, 32 pts, -26 rating
- Before TDL (w/ Lindholm): 62 games, 26 pts (0.41 ppg) , - 17 rating ( -0.27 rating/game)
- After TDL (w/o Lindholm): 19 games, 6 pts (0.31 ppg) , -9 rating (-0.47 rating/game)
Is that the greatness of Drysdale that you're recalling? Lindholm was a +0 rating with 22 points and usually Drysdale's partner. If Lindholm has to kill penalties, then Drysdale will play without Lindholm after that penalty kill since Drysdale isn't on the PK unit. That's where we get the discrepancies in plus/minus rating while being defensive partners at even strength.
Drysdale is the prize here. I'd rather have LaCombe on a higher pairing so we can ease and shelter Drysdale back into the NHL fold. We aren't in a rush to get back into the playoffs, so we might as well properly develop our defensemen as best as we can instead of having delusions of what a prospect should be in our minds. Did we all forget the thought Drysdale should have been in the AHL in his first official NHL rookie season in 2021-22 (see stats above)? I was just happy he didn't look overwhelmed in the 81 NHL games compared to looking lost after his first few NHL games in 2020-21 season. Now, Drysdale's lost a year of development. We don't know where Drysdale is in his development because it never got off the ground this season.
Max Jones lost a year of development two seasons ago. It took 3/4ths of this season to finally see Jones starting to put it together this season like it was his COVID season (three seasons ago) and we still don't know what we have in Jones.
Hockey Duckie
Registered User
Do you have time to talk about our lord and savior Martin Madden?
(We need improvement in F drafting outside of top 10 tho)
Considering that we're going to have four out of our top-6 going to be filled up after the upcoming draft, it's not really much of a concern. Though, it will be interesting to see what we do with the first pick in the second round of the draft, will we swing for a top-6 forward or play it safe with a Gaucher-type player... or go defense?
We can continue to do the Murray way of acquiring top-end forwards via trade. Since the Ducks (Madden) are great at identifying defensemen and goalies, then we can use them for trade capital in trades to acquire a player or to acquire more draft picks. G Andersen netted us a 2016 first round pick and a 2017 second round pick from Toronto. We could have used those picks as trade capital, but we ended up using them as they became C Steel at 30th overall and LW Comtois at 50th overall.
As for bottom-6 forwards, the 2022 draft nabbed two shutdown forwards in C Gaucher and LW/C Hvidston. Verbeek got C/W Nesterenko at the TDL in the Klingberg trade.
Forward isn't our problem. It's defense that's a problem. We're just waiting on the blue liners to become established at the NHL level, which will take some time.
WhatTheDuck
9 - 20 - 8
Drysdale has a full NHL season under his belt where he played just a hair under 20 mins per game. He gained more "experience" in that one season than you could possibly gain in an entire college tenure. That's assuming we are talking about experience relevant to being an NHL Dman.
There's not a chance in hell you're convincing anyone that Lacombe is "more experienced" when Drysdale has played almost as many NHL games as Lacombe did in the NCAA. One has already played a full season utilized as a top 4 Dman in the NHL, of course he's more experienced.
Go on about Lacombe until the cows come home if you want to be his biggest fan, but there's just no need for completely false statements. The guy with two NHL games is not more experienced than the guy with 127, and any argument to the contrary is just a silly waste of time.
Lucky Luke
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''I would have preferred that we wait for the end of the season to announce the trophy winners. We are pretty much focused exclusively on collective success, at this time.'' - Tristan Luneau
Smirnov2Chistov
EEK!
Do you have time to talk about our lord and savior Martin Madden?
(We need improvement in F drafting outside of top 10 tho
Not going to lie, I wasn’t really impressed with him as others are even before the Zegras draft. There’s been some serious misses - but that can be either towards hindsight drafting or player development.
GreatBear
Registered User
Most draft choices are misses. To truly evaluate the head of drafting you need to look at his average over a period of years and see what percentage of draft choices actually make it to the NHL. By the way, I think that Madden does an above average job, but there are some other teams that have done better.
I can't complain about the Dmen drafting over the years. I'd say the only thing missing out of it would be a true offensive dynamo, but we may have 1 or 2 of those coming now.
Not nearly as impressed with our forwards drafting, although our highest picks like Zegs/McT were good, so at least they didn't bungle those, like other teams have. But as far as some of our choices later in the 1st round and after, it's something that's gotta improve.
Not nearly as impressed with our forwards drafting, although our highest picks like Zegs/McT were good, so at least they didn't bungle those, like other teams have. But as far as some of our choices later in the 1st round and after, it's something that's gotta improve.
When you compare us to the rest of the league, we are without a doubt a top 5 team in drafting since he came on. Probably closer to #1 then #5.
Everyone has misses.
Also, I remember reading an interview with Madden where he says the times they have missed was because they tried to draft for need instead of BPA. I think that is Ritchie written all over it, and he is the only real rough miss the Ducks have had in his time.
The one that I remember the most when Madden went with going with need or balance versus BPA is the Etem over Faulk because god forbid we draft two offensive defensemen (after picking Fowler).
If we measure percentage 'reaching the NHL,' yes Madden is one of the best. However, in terms of finding star/impact players, I would say he might not be even crack top 5. Its likely due to him leaning towards being too conservative overall with the early picks IMO.
Dr Johnny Fever
Eggplant and Teal
I don't know if that's really true. At the draft Fowler was given a jersey with no name on the back. Etem, selected at 30, had his name on the jersey. I think it's pretty obvious the Ducks were going to slect Etem at 12 until Fowler fell. Then of course selected Etem when he fell. IIRC Etem was supposedly a mid first round consensus? They liked Etem a lot. Madden can thank the Rangers for not looking bad that year.
Hockey Duckie
Registered User
Anaheim went for need during the 2016-2018 draft, selecting mostly forwards. We drafted more goalies than defensemen in that draft period. And one of the two drafted defenseman switched to forward.
2009-2018, Playoff Era
During Murray's (and Madden's) first decade, we missed the playoffs only twice, 2010 and 2012. At 12th overall in 2010, we drafted Fowler. In the 2012 draft, we drafted Lindholm 6th overall. The further away from the top-10, the less likely the chances of a player makes the NHL, let alone becomes a star.
Looking at goalies alone, the Ducks have drafted Gibson in 2011, Andersen in 2012, and Dostal in 2018.
Defensemen are Madden's forte. We have Vatanen from 2009, Fowler in 2010, Manson in 2011, Lindholm in 2012, Theodore in 2013, as well as Pettersson and Montour in 2014.
Forwards who made an impact drafted by M&M (Murray and Martin) are Palms in 2009, Rakell & Karlsson in 2011, Kase in 2014, Terry in 2015, and Lundy in 2018.
Star players drafted in this decade set are G Gibson, G Andersen, D Fowler, D Lindholm, D Theodore, and RW Terry. Terry took the scenic route to stardom.
2019-2021, Non-Playoff Era
For three consecutive drafts, the Ducks were in the top-10. In 2019, they drafted C Zegras at 9th. The following draft, D Drysdale was selected at 6th overall. The final year of M&M, they surprised the hockey community by drafting C McTavish. All three are already in the NHL. Zegras and McTavish look like stars. Drysdale was hampered by losing a season of development last year.
Anaheim went back to a balanced draft starting in 2019. It's still too early to tell who are impact players or stars from the 2019-21 class, but that 2021 class looks great. M&M took big swings with late first rounders LW Tracey (a late bloomer) in 2019 and RW Perreault (a sliding prospect with top-10 skills, but lack of motor).
Having top-10 picks makes a significant difference in higher end talent accumulation. M&M appear to tentatively be 5 out of 6 with top-10 selections: Fowler, Lindholm, Ritchie, Zegras, Drysdale, and McTavish. Ritchie is the only bomb.
2022 Draft, Verbeek Era
It's an odd draft pool. The defensemen drafted feel like the usual M&M signature types, but the forwards drafted in the first four rounds run contrary to the defensemen in Gaucher and King. We started to take big swings in the fifth round on in Hvidston and Callow. Russian G Buteyets might be a gem in the long run b/c Russian goalies are often thrust into higher leagues at younger ages and often that gives them an edge in the pro career if they manage to survive the onslaught.
OFD Minty is a 10th overall selection and projects to be a great find! At 42nd overall, DFD Warren has injuries set him back this year, twice. Eleven picks later, Two-way D Luneau looks to be the biggest gem b/c he was a projected 1st round talent, but a knee surgery made him lose his burst in his D+0 season. Luneau did great this season and he's still working on regaining that burst.
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I think there are extreme expectations in drafting, believing all picks are made equal such as a 27th overall pick is similar to top-10 pick or top-5 selection. Zegras became a star in his D+2 season. Fifth round Terry didn't become one until his D+7 season. And now Anaheim has the trio of Zegras, Terry, and McTavish forwards to build around for a long while.
WhatTheDuck
9 - 20 - 8
In the end, all that I really care about is the talent they are drafting. While I have a slight bias for forwards, their dmen drafting over the past 3-4 years looks like the best in team history. You can always trade one of these guys for a forward prospect/younger guy if necessary as well.
Hockey Duckie
Registered User
Which is what Murray did, but not for a forward prospect/young guy. He used defensemen in trades for established NHL talent in that playoff push during that six consecutive playoff appearances with two WCF showings.
Murray did admit that he probably should have changed over sooner with youth, but I think he wanted to chase the cup and felt confident his drafted forwards would be a bridge. Murray stopped drafting defensemen in favor of forwards between the 2016-18 drafts. Mahura was a 3rd rd pick in 2016 and Hunter Drew a 7th round pick. Murray banked heaving on Steel, Jones, Comtois, Morand, Badini, Lundy, Groulx, and McLaughlin. So far, Jones is still kicking around, Lundy looks like he could stick around, and Groulx could be here next year as a 4C.
Here's Murray's 2021 after the season review:
On the team's offensive struggles
We got older, and maybe I waited too long to start this, whatever word you want to use. We got older, and guys were less willing to go to those places. I don't quite have the answers to why some of our people's production has gone down. Ricky [Rickard Rakell] has had two years in a row where he's just not scoring, and he does get scoring chances. We've got to get them back on the right page. With the coaching staff, we have to come up with a few new ideas on how to do this, how to get to the tough areas to score goals.
MMC
Global Moderator
MMC
Global Moderator
Believe we only hold Sundsvik's rights for one more year so if he plays that contract out he'll be free to sign anywhere when it's over
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