Rumor: 2022-2023 Trade Rumors and Free Agency: The Search for a 2C

[Cousin Eddie]

He had a bunch of coaches in the NHL (like 3 or 4 in Buffalo alone) and none of them kept him at C. Safe to say he's a winger.

This is true but I really respected the role he played last year when playing with lundell. It was similar to ROR playing “wing” with Dutchy. Reinhart did some heavy lifting defensively for Lundell last year. In the D zone it was Reinhart playing low and Lundell out on the D man.

I’m not going to pretend to know exactly how Reinhart has performed at C vs W over his career but I know he basically played that C position away from the puck a lot of last year and played it very well.

 

[Balthazar]

Don’t be shocked if JT Miller is traded despite his contract extension.

I'm expecting it.

Miller and Mack in the same locker room?

 

[redacted]

They don't want D that are excellent at transitioning the puck even though that's what beat Tampa (yes I know he was injured)? Not buying it.

I realize you like to try to disguise the fatalistic as "realism" but this? Really?

They don't like small defensemen.

and since only Lundell or Barkov is worth one of these 2 and they aren't trading them...

Hence why a deal here really isn't realistic for either side. Both want to win and win now. The value differences between the players aren't close enough for hockey trades. Just not a good fit for either team.

 

[Balthazar]

They don't like small defensemen.

No one does. G is never going to get traded at full value

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Miller and Mack in the same locker room?

They both want the same thing. Just because Miller doesn’t really blend well in a dressing room full of dorks and losers who care more about their Instagram than they do winning hockey games doesn’t mean he’s a bad person. He wants the best from everyone and he wants people to be held accountable when they’re not giving their all. I think the Avs locker room is the perfect spot for him since it’s well known that’s already the mentality in that room.

 

[redacted]

Miller and Mack in the same locker room?

I actually think those two would get along great... same sort of mentalities. Horvat is more of the Dutchy type who may not jive.

 

[The Merchant]

I'd say as it stands... 2 top line guys, 3 middle 6 (not top 6) complementary sorts, 1 3rd liner, 4 bottom 6ers/4th liners, and 2 AHL depth... not really all that different.

Makes trading a top-pairing D all the more nonsensical

 

[ANewHope]

I mean it definitely started about Bennett. But I think it’s obvious Hench wasnt saying that it would take Bo or Toews to get Bennett out of FLA. Just that any deal between the two teams would be centered around Bo/Toews. Not Bo/Toews for Bennett.

Maybe I missed a post but wasn't like the entire thing about trading for Sam Bennett and Sam Bennett only? They clearly aren't trading Barkov and Lundell wasn't mentioned. He specifically said "that's where the deal would be centered"

Not like it really matters lol I took it as Bennett++ because obviously he's not suggesting Byram/Toews straight up for Bennett.

 

[redacted]

No one does. G is never going to get traded at full value

Some teams don't care, but they are a minority in the league. He'd need to go to a team that doesn't mind small defensemen (like Minny) and has some size in the top 4 today to compensate.

Also G only gets full value if he starts to stay healthy. This injury path will wreck his trade value unless it stops very soon.

Makes trading a top-pairing D all the more nonsensical

I don't see it as that much different right now. When healthy, makes a lot more sense to move a defensmen.

 

[ANewHope]

The only way you get a perk up for Lundell is if you are offering Byram.

You don't think they'd do a Toews/Lundell swap? They want to win right now. Defense is brutal. They have the C depth to contend without Lundell. I think on paper atleast there much better with Toews this season and next than Lundell assuming Lundell doesn't breakout like crazy and become a 1C.

I think it's always hard to judge if teams will part with young guys with potential. You think if Colorado calls them and offers Byram they'd accept? Even with Bo's injury issues so far?

 

[John Mandalorian]

I mean to be fair he said "that's where the deal would have to be centered" when the entire discussion was trading for Bennett. Nobody else was mentioned and it wasn't like he was talking about a different player on Florida. Obviously Bennett doesn't have the same value so I took it as Bennett++ for Byram/Toews because they'd have no interest in Girard for Bennett.

I'd do Toews for Lundell. I think it makes sense for both teams on paper. I don't think Colorado will move Toews tho and I'm not really sure if Florida would even listen to Lundell offers.

Yeah, it was a little strange to focus on Byram and Toews when the impetus for the Sam Bennett discussion was centered on someone the Avs might realistically target (in other words because it won't cost someone like Toews and Byram). I'm supposed to make the inference that the Avs are now trading for Lundell when the origin was that Sam Bennett was someone realistic? Why does the obligation to make the similar inference not apply when mentioning Toews and Byram?

 

[AvStock]

Not even Thanksgiving and y’all are turning on each other

 

[redacted]

You don't think they'd do a Toews/Lundell swap? They want to win right now. Defense is brutal. They have the C depth to contend without Lundell. I think on paper atleast there much better with Toews this season and next than Lundell assuming Lundell doesn't breakout like crazy and become a 1C.

I think it's always hard to judge if teams will part with young guys with potential. You think if Colorado calls them and offers Byram they'd accept? Even with Bo's injury issues so far?

I'm not totally sure you can get Lundell with either, and I think the main reason is the cap. They really need Lundell's lower cap hit next year. Lundell is a 2C capable player now and might reach 1C level play by later this year or into next year. An extreme bargain when they have some cap issues.

In a vacuum, you could probably swap Byram and Lundell as they have similar value ceilings and would help each team for a long duration as their primes are just beginning. In reality, Byram will demand a bigger contract that throws off the immediate structure of Flordia. They aren't ready for that salary increase next season.

For Toews, you don't trade a young 2C who can be a 1C for 1.5 years of a top pairing defensemen, who will also upset the cost structure of the team.

I get the appeal of Florida as a partner from an Avs standpoint... I don't get the appeal of the Avs from Florida's (unless the Avs would take on Bob ).

Not even Thanksgiving and y’all are turning on each other

We turned on each other in 2013.

 

[The Merchant]

Some teams don't care, but they are a minority in the league. He'd need to go to a team that doesn't mind small defensemen (like Minny) and has some size in the top 4 today to compensate.

Also G only gets full value if he starts to stay healthy. This injury path will wreck his trade value unless it stops very soon.



I don't see it as that much different right now. When healthy, makes a lot more sense to move a defensmen.

You don't see this team looking different after separating what has been the best top pairing in the league for the last two years? During a Cup window? I swear man some people have got to get over their Stastny PTSD. Keeping Toews for one more run is more valuable than whatever futures he'd bring in.

Now if we're talking Girard I'm more open to the thought. This team has already proven it can win without him and that, quite frankly, he just isn't a player that survives postseason play.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

If the Canucks actually trade JT Miller even with that extension, that's the route we need to go.

If you can get a 2C as high end as Miller, it really does so much heavy lifting for the depth issues on offense. Doesn't matter nearly as much if you're depth is a little weak if you've got the 2 most important positions on offense solved with high end players.

 

[redacted]

You don't see this team looking different after separating what has been the best top pairing in the league for the last two years? During a Cup window? I swear man some people have got to get over their Stastny PTSD. Keeping Toews for one more run is more valuable than whatever futures he'd bring in.

Now if we're talking Girard I'm more open to the thought. This team has already proven it can win without him and that, quite frankly, he just isn't a player that survives postseason play.

Some wires must have gotten crossed. I'm saying today's forward situation is about as bad is it would be if Toews was moved on defense. It is pretty abysmal up front right now. 1/6 guys being top paring capable is pretty much equivalent to 2/12 guys being top line capable. After each of those, you have varying levels of depth but no certain top 6/top4 guys. Some that are on the fringe, but no sure thing.

To me, you only move Toews if you can get a 2C for the next 3-4+ years. Only deal that makes sense. Avs could do that if Byram stays healthy as he could probably step into that role and be fine. G would also have to stay healthy.

 

[ANewHope]

I get the appeal of Florida as a partner from an Avs standpoint... I don't get the appeal of the Avs from Florida's (unless the Avs would take on Bob ).

Yeah I didn't really factor in Florida's cap situation. If you can't get them to bite on a Girard/Bennett swap probably nothing you can really do. Which sucks because in terms of rosters they pretty much are the perfect trade partners.

 

[Balthazar]

Kadri (cost: free) : 7 X 7M or 8 X 6.1M = Avs said no thanks

Miller (cost: a lot of assets): 8 X 8M = Avs would somehow say yes?

Keep in mind that Miller will start his 8-year contract at age 30.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Kadri (cost: free) : 7 X 7M or 8 X 6.125M = Avs said no thanks

Miller (cost: a lot of assets): 8 X 8M = Avs would somehow say yes?

Keep in mind that Miller will start his 8-year contract at age 30.

Yeah I agree. Doesn’t make any sense to me either.

 

[ANewHope]

If the Canucks actually trade JT Miller even with that extension, that's the route we need to go.

If you can get a 2C as high end as Miller, it really does so much heavy lifting for the depth issues on offense. Doesn't matter nearly as much if you're depth is a little weak if you've got the 2 most important positions on offense solved with high end players.

I feel like the cap would be really tricky with Miler making 8 mill next year. Already going to take some work without him. If you could keep our top 6 with Miller and Makar/Toews/Byram for 1 season before having to let Toews walk it would be worth it tho. That top 6 would be filthy and the top 4 still elite.

 

[Balthazar]

Here's one thing that the Avs could do:

Trade for Miller, use him this year (5.25M cap hit) and then trade his ass somewhere else this summer before his new contract with NMC kicks in.

 

[ANewHope]

Kadri (cost: free) : 7 X 7M or 8 X 6.1M = Avs said no thanks

Miller (cost: a lot of assets): 8 X 8M = Avs would somehow say yes?

Keep in mind that Miller will start his 8-year contract at age 30.

Miller is 3 years younger and you'd get him for this years run. Big enough difference IMO but I don't think the Avs would do it.

I honestly think Sakic has targets that nobody see's coming and is going to disappoint alot of people at first. I think he's going to go the Bura/Toews route of finding a 2C rather than what he did with Barrie/Kadri.

 

[Balthazar]

Miller is 3 years younger and you'd get him for this years run. Big enough difference IMO

Miller will be exactly 1.5 year younger than Kadri at the beginning of their respective contracts. Considering that Kadri signed 7 years and Miller signed 8 years, age is basically a non-factor.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

I feel like the cap would be really tricky with Miler making 8 mill next year. Already going to take some work without him. If you could keep our top 6 with Miller and Makar/Toews/Byram for 1 season before having to let Toews walk it would be worth it tho. That top 6 would be filthy and the top 4 still elite.

Tricky, but doable. Assuming you trade Girard elsewhere in the summer you would have:


Lehky - Mack - Mikko
Lany - Miller - Nuke
???? - ???? - ????
LOC - ???? - ????

Toews - Makar
???? - Manson
???? - ????
MacDonald/MacDermid

George/Frank

That's the signed players for next year at that point. $73.225M spent. If the cap were to go up to $86.5M then you've got $13.275M in space for 8 roster spots essentially. Byram getting a 3x$5M bridge would then leave you with $8.275M for 7 spots. A little over $1M per spot essentially. But considering you're filling in the bottom 6 and bottom pairing it could work.

The key would be A) Having a couple ELC guys that can play a role, like perhaps Foudy as the 4C, or Behrens as 3LD, or signing Kaut to a 1x900k 1-way deal this summer, or Bowers or Maltsev... etc. Or B) Targeting cheap veteran guys that want to chase a cup, but gotta get them for cheap. Not $1.25M like we did Helm/Cogs, but 750k like Carolina did with Stepan and De Haan, or Toronto with Giordano, Florida with the Staal's, etc. etc.

It can be done, but it would be very tight for sure. If Byram is completely unwilling to go the bridge route, it probably cant be done. Or if the cap doesn't rise to $86.5M it likely couldn't be done.

 

[ANewHope]

Miller will be exactly 1.5 year younger than Kadri at the beginning of their respective contracts. Considering that Kadri signed 7 years and Miller signed 8 years, age is basically a non-factor.

I'm not talking about the contracts. Miller's currently 2+ years younger as of today and we'd be getting him to go on a run this year. I agree both contracts will age very poorly which is why I don't think the Avs would do it. I do think you might be able to get another solid year out of Miller which would be enough for me to do it.