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Rumor: 2022-2023 Trade Rumors and Free Agency: The Search for a 2C

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Pierce Hawthorne said:
I think you're underselling Newhook quite a bit.


That is a very big package. Newhook is an A-/B+ level young asset.
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Even if Newhook still considered a good asset, it's not what Vancouver needs. They can get a good d-man for Horvat which is what they really need. They already have 3 top 6 centers. If they trade Horvat they'll still have Miller and Pettersson.
 
the_fan said:
Even if Newhook still considered a good asset, it's not what Vancouver needs. They can get a good d-man for Horvat which is what they really need. They already have 3 top 6 centers. If they trade Horvat they'll still have Miller and Pettersson.
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No they can't.... He's a UFA rental, do you not understand that.

They aren't getting anything in terms of a quality roster player(Hence why Newhook would be a huge piece in a trade).

At best they get a RHD Prospect that's like B- level. Any higher and nobody would move them for a rental.
 
Girard better stop getting injured if we plan on trading him.

We’d have to sell super low on him because of his size and injury history. I think we’ll end up keeping him rather than trading him for pennies on the dollar.
 
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Pierce Hawthorne said:
No they can't.... He's a UFA rental, do you not understand that.

They aren't getting anything in terms of a quality roster player(Hence why Newhook would be a huge piece in a trade).

At best they get a RHD Prospect that's like B- level. Any higher and nobody would move them for a rental.
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I don't get the whole only a rental thing. Teams trade for players with expiring contract and give up a lot all the time because more often than not they resign that player. See Tkachuk Huberdeau Weegar trade. And there were more examples which I don't feel like going through the list right now, but it happens all the time
 
the_fan said:
I don't get the whole only a rental thing. Teams trade for players with expiring contract and give up a lot all the time because more often than not they resign that player. See Tkachuk Huberdeau Weegar trade. And there were more examples which I don't feel like going through the list right now, but it happens all the time
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No they don't. Rentals have a very set price that rarely changes. Especially true rentals traded at the trade deadline.


Using the Calgary/Florida trade is laughable. For one, Huberdeau is a significantly better player then Horvat. Second, they weren't rentals in the same vein as Horvat. They were traded in the summer with a full year left before being UFAs. That's not a rental in the way Horvat will be. And finally, Calgary only gave up a lot because they had to move a guy who told them he wouldn't re-sign with them.

It's not even remotely similar to the situation with Horvat or any other traditional UFA rental.


Instead... Look at the Giroux trade last summer. Look at Andrew Copp. Those are true rental trades. Look at the Taylor Hall trade a couple years ago.


Rental deals every year are built the same way. 1st round pick + Prospect as the main pieces. With the quality of prospect depending on how good the rental is. Possibly other minor pieces involved in the deal.

Newhook + 1st is the framework of a deal, and one Vancouver would be thrilled to get. They are extremely high on Newhook. They might be deep at forward now but if they clean house like some rumors suggest and send out all of Horvat(Or Miller), Boeser, and Garland in the next 12 months they will have plenty of openings in the Top 9 for Newhook to find a home in.
 
the_fan said:
I don't get the whole only a rental thing. Teams trade for players with expiring contract and give up a lot all the time because more often than not they resign that player. See Tkachuk Huberdeau Weegar trade. And there were more examples which I don't feel like going through the list right now, but it happens all the time
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Huh? The Tkachuk/Hubi trade isn’t really a comparable situation at all. A 1st and Girard would be one of the biggest packages moved for a singular player in some time.
 
Insider Info Time: I recently received confirmation that the Avs were fully prepared to move Girard this off-season. No insight on what changed that situation, or who the Avs were in talks with, but it was close.
 
JabroniDangles said:
Insider Info Time: I recently received confirmation that the Avs were fully prepared to move Girard this off-season. No insight on what changed that situation, or who the Avs were in talks with, but it was close.
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Could explain why the Avs dragged out the Kadri negotiatons as long as they did. Wasn't there another poster here this summer claiming a player was expecting to be moved? We all assumed it was EJ
 
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Pierce Hawthorne said:
No they don't. Rentals have a very set price that rarely changes. Especially true rentals traded at the trade deadline.


Using the Calgary/Florida trade is laughable. For one, Huberdeau is a significantly better player then Horvat. Second, they weren't rentals in the same vein as Horvat. They were traded in the summer with a full year left before being UFAs. That's not a rental in the way Horvat will be. And finally, Calgary only gave up a lot because they had to move a guy who told them he wouldn't re-sign with them.

It's not even remotely similar to the situation with Horvat or any other traditional UFA rental.


Instead... Look at the Giroux trade last summer. Look at Andrew Copp. Those are true rental trades. Look at the Taylor Hall trade a couple years ago.


Rental deals every year are built the same way. 1st round pick + Prospect as the main pieces. With the quality of prospect depending on how good the rental is. Possibly other minor pieces involved in the deal.

Newhook + 1st is the framework of a deal, and one Vancouver would be thrilled to get. They are extremely high on Newhook. They might be deep at forward now but if they clean house like some rumors suggest and send out all of Horvat(Or Miller), Boeser, and Garland in the next 12 months they will have plenty of openings in the Top 9 for Newhook to find a home in.
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I can't really find a list of players traded at the deadline with expiring contract and resigned with that team, but I'm sure there have been quite a few. I mean just because it's a trade deadline deal, doesn't automatically mean it's a pure rental. You can always resign the player if you can
 
the_fan said:
I can't really find a list of players traded at the deadline with expiring contract and resigned with that team, but I'm sure there have been quite a few. I mean just because it's a trade deadline deal, doesn't automatically mean it's a pure rental. You can always resign the player if you can
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Sure, but that has absolutely zero impact on the value of the trade at the trade deadline.

Whether they re-sign or not doesn't matter at all. Unless the team negotiated with the player ahead of time as part of the trade negotiations, and in those situations the player signs almost right away.


And fwiw, Vancouver fans(Some but not all) are even perfectly OK with trading Horvat to the Avs for Newy + 1st with an extension agreed upon.


It's a really good package.
 
the_fan said:
There is no way Vancouver would do Newhook +1st for Horvat, let alone with retention. Vancouver would at very least ask for Girard, and I dont think Avs are trading G. I mean if they were willing to trade Girard, they would just not resign Manson instead
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For a pending ufa? Lol Newhook + 1st is plenty. If there isn’t an extension in place they won’t get much more than that.
 
Pierce Hawthorne said:
Sure, but that has absolutely zero impact on the value of the trade at the trade deadline.

Whether they re-sign or not doesn't matter at all. Unless the team negotiated with the player ahead of time as part of the trade negotiations, and in those situations the player signs almost right away.


And fwiw, Vancouver fans(Some but not all) are even perfectly OK with trading Horvat to the Avs for Newy + 1st with an extension agreed upon.


It's a really good package.
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I'd do that today honestly, and if the cap does go up next year as reported, Avs could possibly resign Horvat to long term and not worry about 2C again, but again, even if it's a rental value, still don't think Vancouver does it. They'd be more interested in Barron if Avs still had him. They desperately need a right shot D
 
the_fan said:
I'd do that today honestly, and if the cap does go up next year as reported, Avs could possibly resign Horvat to long term and not worry about 2C again, but again, even if it's a rental value, still don't think Vancouver does it. They'd be more interested in Barron if Avs still had him. They desperately need a right shot D
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Again, they need a bunch of things, not just a Dman. They were extremely high on him in his draft year and still are now.

The difference in value between Newhook and Barron is substantial enough that Van would absolutely take Newy over him.


If they really want a RHD, there's a good chance they have a Top 10 pick this year, they can draft one with that pick. Or draft one with our 1st rounder.
 
Pierce Hawthorne said:
Again, they need a bunch of things, not just a Dman. They were extremely high on him in his draft year and still are now.

The difference in value between Newhook and Barron is substantial enough that Van would absolutely take Newy over him.


If they really want a RHD, there's a good chance they have a Top 10 pick this year, they can draft one with that pick. Or draft one with our 1st rounder.
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Ok well, this is discussion is kinda pointless since Avs are using LTIR and won't have enough cap space for Horvat. Vancouver is not gonna retain salary if they're taking Newhook and 1st. Maybe if they get a 3rd team involved, I don't know.
 
the_fan said:
Ok well, this is discussion is kinda pointless since Avs are using LTIR and won't have enough cap space for Horvat. Vancouver is not gonna retain salary if they're taking Newhook and 1st. Maybe if they get a 3rd team involved, I don't know.
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Yes they would retain salary. And yes the Avs shouls still have plenty of cap space at the deadline.

The entire premise of any trade is with 50% retention from Vancouver.
 
If a couple of players come back, could Landeskog and Helm be removed from LTIR so that we can continue to bank deadline space? Or as soon as we use LTIR, that’s it, no more banking for the rest of the season?

the_fan said:
If this was possible they would do it today
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It’s not possible today. Horvat has a 5.5 mil cap hit. Enough of the season hasn’t passed by yet for us to be able to fit him in.
 
EdAVSfan said:
If a couple of players come back, could Landeskog and Helm be removed from LTIR so that we can continue to bank deadline space? Or as soon as we use LTIR, that’s it, no more banking for the rest of the season?


It’s not possible today. Horvat has a 5.5 mil cap hit. Enough of the season hasn’t passed by yet for us to be able to fit him in.
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Well supposedly Vancouver will retain half(which I don't think they will) so that would only be 2.75
 
Personally I've lost a lot of interest in Horvat since I know that we can't keep him (especially now since he's conveniently having a career year on his UFA contract year).
 
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