UncleRisto
Not Great, Bob!
That's two-time world champion postage stamp boy.National hero for 10 years after one lacrosse goal. Postage stamp boy. Ex Wild.
Can't
Rumor: 2022-2023 Trade Rumors and Free Agency: The Search for a 2C
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If he wants to show us that he doesn't have that Wild player stink in him, he can walk to Poile and demand a trade to Avalanche and Avalanche only.
Richard Doll
Registered User
I am starting to get on board with the idea of moving assets to pick up a 2C.
I have always believed that we NEEDED to let Newhook prove he can't do the job before making a deal, and it would have been the best-case scenario for us if he could man the job, but something just isn't working out for him, honestly, I think a trip back to the Eagles would do him some good to get some confidence.
I absolutely am against the Jonathan Toews and similar trade ideas though. These players are shadows of themselves and gain us nothing compared to the assets we need to move to acquire them.
I have always believed that we NEEDED to let Newhook prove he can't do the job before making a deal, and it would have been the best-case scenario for us if he could man the job, but something just isn't working out for him, honestly, I think a trip back to the Eagles would do him some good to get some confidence.
I absolutely am against the Jonathan Toews and similar trade ideas though. These players are shadows of themselves and gain us nothing compared to the assets we need to move to acquire them.
The more I think about our supposed “targets” the more I think that we will end up with a different kind of 2C. Someone who is hungry (never won a cup before), gritty and will stick around for a few years at a manageable cap hit. The only profile I can come up with is Boone Jenner. He is 29, the Jackets’ captain and he just signed a very manegeable 4x3.750 contract. If Columbus will continue to tank, maybe they will listen to a Newhook, Ranta + 1st (plus conditional 2024 1st if we win the cup) offer at the deadline?
I’m starting to warm to the idea of Kevin Hayes but even with retention I doubt the Avs go that route.
- Jan 18, 2016
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There's variance but long-term you should see better results with good scouts
Toews would be fine between Landy and Lehk. He'd be a pure rental that wouldn't cost shit tons due to his age and decline in play.
But for a one year thing it would be much better than what we've currently got. I mean he's got 10 pts in 14 games so far, much better than Newhook and Compher 7 pts combined.
I prefer a longer term option but if that's the best option right now you take it.
Rumour is he is asking for 8m. Hard working captain of a Canadian team. His hustle/60 and character/60 is off the charts. Despite taking lots of faceoffs his defensive results are very average. And would be considered below average if he played for a small market team.
Offensive production has not been that of a good first liner until this season.
It absolutely isn't luck. There is a group of about 5-10 teams that consistently produce the best talent outside the first round.
- Jan 18, 2016
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I mean theres some luck involved sure. But if it was all luck than it wouldn’t be the same teams making these good picks time and time again.
Richard Doll
Registered User
I am just not buying Toews current success. He is shooting 24%, that isn't going to last, not even here with our playmakers.
We can't even get him unless the hawks eat a ton of cash, and that isn't going to come on pennies to the dollar, they will want some good assets.
Toews just isn't worth the price to get him.
That just isn't true at all...
Toews only has a real salary of $2.9M this year. Which means if Chicago ate 50% that's only $1.45M.
By the trade deadline he will already have earned ~$2.2M of that salary and will only have about 700k left. Which means Chicago would only eat $350k. The cost of retaining $350k is a 3rd round pick.
Toews, like all rental top 6 centers is going to be a 1st + good prospect sort of deal. That may not all go directly to Chicago, but by the time you pay for retention, it'll be around there.
You can debate whether or not he is worth that price... but the price of rentals is pretty well established.
You can debate whether or not he is worth that price... but the price of rentals is pretty well established.
Even if it was luck you'd think we'd hit on somebody that's not a top 4 pick more than once every 100 years
I think you can make a case that the teams that just get 1 or 2 over 10 years are just pure luck/blind squirrel. The teams that consistently get 1 guy a year outside the 1st, that's not luck, that's talent. IE Carolina is probably the best drafting team in the 2nd round. I haven't calculated it, but their hit rate (over 200 gp for skaters 100gp for goalies) over the past 15 years has to be over 50%. They are also pretty great outside the 2nd, but their seconds are incredible. Tampa is probably the best drafting team overall, but they struggle top 15-20... but kill it with usually at least 1 NHLer in the 2nd+. Anaheim has a debate for best drafting team to the tune of about 2 overall NHLers drafted a year consistently. Nashville, Columbus, and Isles all are great too.
Richard Doll
Registered User
Guess I am not sure what a real salary is. he has a 10.5 mil cap hit, not sure how all that is computed out I suppose.
Regardless of salary, Toews the player is NOT work Newhook. I don't care what the rental price is, if it takes Newhook for a 34 year old center that will have his 24% shot percentage fall back to normal very shortly, you just keep on looking.
If it is true that his salary is actually in the 2.9 trade range, and he can be had for a combo centered around Ranta, fine.
For Toews... you're likely looking 1st + Behrens/OO (or Foudy if he keeps playing incredibly well in the AHL) as the baseline. 1st + Newhook is in the realm of possibility and would be roughly market value. Depends on how many bidders there are for Toews (I expect quite a few).
On the flip side of his shooting percentage, he is under producing 5v5 for GF vs xGF and his on ice shooting percentage is about a quarter to half percent low. Reasonable to assume his shooting percentage will go down, but his point production (especially 5v5) is likely to increase. They probably won't cleanly offset, but he's likely to start looking like he will produce somewhere in the 50s this year with Raddysh and one of Kurashev/Johnson on his wings. Actually pretty solid numbers given that.
Bill Peckerskull
Fargin' Icehole
Cap hit is the average of the total salary across the length of the contract, per year. This includes signing bonus money. So 8 years - $84M deal equals $10.5M AAV. Real salary is the amount negotiated inside of the contract for one particular year. So in Toews's case, this season he got a $4M signing bonus from the Hawks that they already paid, and he makes $2.9M this year in actual salary.
He, along with Pat Kane, also has a full NMC. So, he can essentially decide where he would accept a trade. That also hamstrings the Hawks, as say they only have one or two locations that Toews is willing to waive to, they will have to either just take the best offer (which is probably not going to be super great), or keep him and let him walk away at the end of the year for nothing. That is if they don't choose to resign him, or he decides to go somewhere else.
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Bender
I'll eat pancakes on his grave!
- Sep 25, 2002
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I think it's going to be Horseface. In the end, Horvat will be too expensive to re-up with a new contract and in assets to acquire and the other usual suspects (ROR, Toews, Dubois, etc...) are going to be really expensive to trade for.
I could see the Avs rolling the dice on what that guy still has in the tank for the next 3-4 years even though he has 5 years left (including this one) on his contract. Obviously, the Sharks would need to retain a portion of that like they did with the Burns trade. So my suggestion is this :
Girard, LD (5 years remaining @ $5M) <-> Couture, C (5 years remaining @ $8M)
San Jose retains $2.5M per year on that deal making Couture a $5.5M cap player for the Avs.
Now obviously, Mike Grier was hired to mop up Doug Wilson's mess and I have to believe he would jump at the chance to make this kind of deal when you consider that he'd be getting a 24 year old Top-4 D-Man + saving $500K against the cap even if it means giving up your captain. That team is going nowhere fast and it's going to take a long time for them to get out of that hole.
From an Avs standpoint, you probably can't make that deal without something else coming your way because trading a 24 year old like Girard for a 33 year old, is a pretty big gamble. I was a big fan of Artemi Kniazev his draft year so maybe that kind of prospect is added in or a 2nd round pick and the Avs can maybe add a decent prospect like Foudy on their side to round it out.... maybe even agree to reunite the Megna brothers - which would be kind of like crossing the streams in Ghostbusters.
So part of me thinks... this is crazy, the Avs can't give up a solid player like Girard for a 33 year old with 5 years left but then another part of me thinks, well if they want to acquire a #2C, it's probably not going to be cheap under any circumstances. So I don't think it's that far off... under this scenario, at least they hang on to their best prospects and picks.
I could see the Avs rolling the dice on what that guy still has in the tank for the next 3-4 years even though he has 5 years left (including this one) on his contract. Obviously, the Sharks would need to retain a portion of that like they did with the Burns trade. So my suggestion is this :
Girard, LD (5 years remaining @ $5M) <-> Couture, C (5 years remaining @ $8M)
San Jose retains $2.5M per year on that deal making Couture a $5.5M cap player for the Avs.
Now obviously, Mike Grier was hired to mop up Doug Wilson's mess and I have to believe he would jump at the chance to make this kind of deal when you consider that he'd be getting a 24 year old Top-4 D-Man + saving $500K against the cap even if it means giving up your captain. That team is going nowhere fast and it's going to take a long time for them to get out of that hole.
From an Avs standpoint, you probably can't make that deal without something else coming your way because trading a 24 year old like Girard for a 33 year old, is a pretty big gamble. I was a big fan of Artemi Kniazev his draft year so maybe that kind of prospect is added in or a 2nd round pick and the Avs can maybe add a decent prospect like Foudy on their side to round it out.... maybe even agree to reunite the Megna brothers - which would be kind of like crossing the streams in Ghostbusters.
So part of me thinks... this is crazy, the Avs can't give up a solid player like Girard for a 33 year old with 5 years left but then another part of me thinks, well if they want to acquire a #2C, it's probably not going to be cheap under any circumstances. So I don't think it's that far off... under this scenario, at least they hang on to their best prospects and picks.
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