Rumor: 2022-2023 Trade Rumors and Free Agency: The Search for a 2C

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It's still not really plausible. It would entail trading Girard, cap going up to $86+ mil, Byram making ~$5 mil. Newhook, Kaut, and Meyers (or replacements) all making $1 mil or less, and carrying a 18-19 man roster.

Well a Girard trade is inevitable I would say. Or at least one of the LD. $86.5M cap looks more and more likely every day... But if that doesn't happen we can't afford a 2C or a 3C anyway. And Byram on a bridge will be around $5M.

Those three things basically have to happen for us to even be able to afford a 2C quite frankly.
 
Barring a bigger deal to address 2C long term with guys like Horvat/Miller/Dubois, Jonathan Toews seems like the no brainer trade candidate at the deadline.

Expiring deal, vet Cup winner, good two way player, great on faceoffs, has a little size, healthy for the first time in a while, off to a great start this year, and shouldn't cost an arm and leg to acquire with his NMC.
 
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I just think we need to be realistic to what we should go after.

I agree Strome is very unlikely to be moved with just getting that contract, but that is very likely the type of player we should be targeting.

Someone that is team controlled on contact, most likely in that 50-60 point range, like a Kadri when we made the trade. Yes, Kadri was a 30 goal scorer, but he was several years removed from that, we weren’t trying to trade for a 30 goal scorer, we were trying for a 50-60 point center, with a great contract.

The idea of getting a star for the second line that we can’t afford to pay next year or an old vet like Toews that we also won’t keep next year is a wrong way of thinking, do we really want to be sitting here with this exact same conversation next year?

It’s also possible that the guy we need is already here, with the way ERod has been playing lately, maybe getting Nuke and Landy back with ERod at 2c will be effective…
I don't think that the bolded is true. He was one year removed from being a 30 goal scorer, and had gotten demoted to 3rd line center due to them signing Tavares. I think that a 30 goal second line center is exactly what Sakic was looking for.
 
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I don't think that the bolded is true. He was one year removed from being a 30 goal scorer, and had gotten demoted to 3rd line center due to them signing Tavares. I think that a 30 goal second line center is exactly what Sakic was looking for.
You are right it was only 1 year removed from his 30 goal season.

The fact still remains though, even the 2 years that Kadri was a 30 goal scorer, he was still only a 55-60 point player.

Kadri the assist machine didn't happen until this past season.

Whether we target a goal scorer or more of a playmaker, that is the point total range we should be targeting.
 
Can't believe I'm saying this but we kinda need Gallagher now. Little depth, tons of injuries, Newhook and Compher underperforming. We really need immediate help from anyone who's even remotely NHL caliber.
 
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You are right it was only 1 year removed from his 30 goal season.

The fact still remains though, even the 2 years that Kadri was a 30 goal scorer, he was still only a 55-60 point player.

Kadri the assist machine didn't happen until this past season.

Whether we target a goal scorer or more of a playmaker, that is the point total range we should be targeting.

Another fact in this, the Avs didn't win the Cup without Kadri on a major heater and playing like a 1C. When he played like the 2C, the Avs didn't win the Cup. If the goal is to win the Cup this year, the Avs likely need a guy better than the run of the mill 50-60 point 2C. Or they probably need to add another top 9 forward (likely a center) along with that 2C.

Right now it is abundantly clear the Avs are missing Kadri and Burkie. Even when Burkie got pushed to the 3rd line in the playoffs, he was producing and helped that line at least tread water or be an advantage a lot of nights.

If we are looking longer term, paying a huge price for a young (under 23) 2C might be the most advisable route. It not only helps now, but if you get the right guy, you might be able to have 2 1C level guys for the next few seasons and help cover up some holes elsewhere.
 
I think it's going to be Horseface. In the end, Horvat will be too expensive to re-up with a new contract and in assets to acquire and the other usual suspects (ROR, Toews, Dubois, etc...) are going to be really expensive to trade for.

I could see the Avs rolling the dice on what that guy still has in the tank for the next 3-4 years even though he has 5 years left (including this one) on his contract. Obviously, the Sharks would need to retain a portion of that like they did with the Burns trade. So my suggestion is this :

Girard, LD (5 years remaining @ $5M) <-> Couture, C (5 years remaining @ $8M)

San Jose retains $2.5M per year on that deal making Couture a $5.5M cap player for the Avs.

Now obviously, Mike Grier was hired to mop up Doug Wilson's mess and I have to believe he would jump at the chance to make this kind of deal when you consider that he'd be getting a 24 year old Top-4 D-Man + saving $500K against the cap even if it means giving up your captain. That team is going nowhere fast and it's going to take a long time for them to get out of that hole.

From an Avs standpoint, you probably can't make that deal without something else coming your way because trading a 24 year old like Girard for a 33 year old, is a pretty big gamble. I was a big fan of Artemi Kniazev his draft year so maybe that kind of prospect is added in or a 2nd round pick and the Avs can maybe add a decent prospect like Foudy on their side to round it out.... maybe even agree to reunite the Megna brothers - which would be kind of like crossing the streams in Ghostbusters.

So part of me thinks... this is crazy, the Avs can't give up a solid player like Girard for a 33 year old with 5 years left but then another part of me thinks, well if they want to acquire a #2C, it's probably not going to be cheap under any circumstances. So I don't think it's that far off... under this scenario, at least they hang on to their best prospects and picks.
I debated this thought as well. Avs would definitely need some other assets coming back or even a solid 3rd line player. Draft picks might be better but I can't see the sharks wanting to part with those as they are going to start a re build
 
Beyond the top line and E rod the forward group is a big yikes. At this point we just need NHL warm bodies
 
It was also just a few minutes when the Avs were pushing… hard to draw real conclusions from that.
 
Another fact in this, the Avs didn't win the Cup without Kadri on a major heater and playing like a 1C. When he played like the 2C, the Avs didn't win the Cup. If the goal is to win the Cup this year, the Avs likely need a guy better than the run of the mill 50-60 point 2C. Or they probably need to add another top 9 forward (likely a center) along with that 2C.

Kadri only had 15 points in 16 playoff games. He was great and had massive moments but he wasn’t dominating the playoffs like he did the regular season. We won important playoff games with JT Compher at 2C. Kadri also missed the Vegas series entirely.

So not really fair to say we didn’t win the cup when Kadri was playing like a 2C. We had 2 playoff runs with him and won 1 cup with him under PPG.
 
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Kadri only had 15 points in 16 playoff games. He was great and had massive moments but he wasn’t dominating the playoffs like he did the regular season. We won important playoff games with JT Compher at 2C. Kadri also missed the Vegas series entirely.

So not really fair to say we didn’t win the cup when Kadri was playing like a 2C. We had 2 playoff runs with him and won 1 cup with him under PPG.
15/16 is practically a ppg center in the playoffs that’s is typically 1C production in the regular season. He also lead all forwards in a number of advanced stats. The Avs did win some games without him, but he played 16/20 and was dominant in those games. I don’t think the Avs win the Cup without him and his level of play.
 
Kadri only had 15 points in 16 playoff games. He was great and had massive moments but he wasn’t dominating the playoffs like he did the regular season. We won important playoff games with JT Compher at 2C. Kadri also missed the Vegas series entirely.

So not really fair to say we didn’t win the cup when Kadri was playing like a 2C. We had 2 playoff runs with him and won 1 cup with him under PPG.
Kadri had the highest xGF% of any player in the league in round 2 against the Blues. He was essential to the outcome of that series.
 
15/16 is practically a ppg center in the playoffs that’s is typically 1C production in the regular season. He also lead all forwards in a number of advanced stats. The Avs did win some games without him, but he played 16/20 and was dominant in those games. I don’t think the Avs win the Cup without him and his level of play.

Oh they 100% don’t win the cup without him. He wasn’t playing like a 1C in the playoffs and 4/20 isn’t insignificant. You don’t win with cup without MacKinnon. Kadri/2C doesn’t get it done.

He put up more points in his first playoff run here, was suspended his 2nd playoff run, and was great the 3rd one. So went 1/2 and it’s not like Kadri was bad in the 1 loss we had with him.
 
Kadri had the highest xGF% of any player in the league in round 2 against the Blues. He was essential to the outcome of that series.

Yeah where have I said he wasn’t? Where did I say we win without him?

All I said was he didn’t dominate the playoffs like did the regular season. I don’t think you win with him as your 1C in the playoffs last year especially with him missing 4 games. That’s it. I don’t think it’s fair to act like the Avs needed two 1Cs to win a cup last season.
 
Oh they 100% don’t win the cup without him. He wasn’t playing like a 1C in the playoffs and 4/20 isn’t insignificant. You don’t win with cup without MacKinnon. Kadri/2C doesn’t get it done.

He put up more points in his first playoff run here, was suspended his 2nd playoff run, and was great the 3rd one. So went 1/2 and it’s not like Kadri was bad in the 1 loss we had with him.
Oh I agree the Avs don't win without MacK. It is a team game, and the Avs needed the proper level of play out of their team to win.

To say he wasn't playing like a 1C is absolutely incorrect though. Dude was on fire all of last season and played incredibly well in the playoffs. He was a major reason the Avs could tilt the ice so massively against teams.

He did play very well in his first playoff run (Kadri has frankly always elevated his game in the playoffs). That team was still not quite there (only a piece or two away that could have been remedied).

Yeah where have I said he wasn’t? Where did I say we win without him?

All I said was he didn’t dominate the playoffs like did the regular season. I don’t think you win with him as your 1C in the playoffs last year especially with him missing 4 games. That’s it. I don’t think it’s fair to act like the Avs needed two 1Cs to win a cup last season.

I don't think you win with him as a 1C either... as normally the 1Cs on Cup teams are elite 1C guys (not always but normally).

He absolutely played at a 1C level and was better in the playoffs than he was in the regular season. Without Kadri at this level of play, I highly doubt the Avs win the Cup. He was a very major piece to the run. I don't really see how that is debatable.
 
I disagree with the comments that it is a quasy certainty that the Avs would not have won the Cup without Kadri. Unless you mean removing Kadri and not replacing him with anyone else... I think the real question is whether they would have won with a 2C weaker than Kadri. Someone like the names being thrown around (Gourde, Nelson, Hayes, Toews, Granlund, etc...). We defeated Nashville and Edmonton in 4... nuff said there... and he played with one hand against Tampa. There is no certainty that we would have won, but to pretend it is almost garanteed that they would NOT have won is very far from the truth.
 
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Oh I agree the Avs don't win without MacK. It is a team game, and the Avs needed the proper level of play out of their team to win.

To say he wasn't playing like a 1C is absolutely incorrect though. Dude was on fire all of last season and played incredibly well in the playoffs. He was a major reason the Avs could tilt the ice so massively against teams.

He did play very well in his first playoff run (Kadri has frankly always elevated his game in the playoffs). That team was still not quite there (only a piece or two away that could have been remedied).



I don't think you win with him as a 1C either... as normally the 1Cs on Cup teams are elite 1C guys (not always but normally).

He absolutely played at a 1C level and was better in the playoffs than he was in the regular season. Without Kadri at this level of play, I highly doubt the Avs win the Cup. He was a very major piece to the run. I don't really see how that is debatable.

When did I say he wasn’t a major piece? Or we win without him. It’s not debatable because nobody has ever tried to debate that. You said the Avs didn’t win with him playing like a 2C. We had him for 3 runs and 1 he was suspended, 1 he was PPG+ and 1 he was just under PPG and we won the cup.

I just said he was much better in the regular season than he was in the playoffs. I don’t see how that’s debatable. I don’t think he was 1C caliber in the playoffs. I think it’s important because there’s 0% chance we ever replace his regular season production. His playoff performance is atleast in the realm of possibility or atleast getting close to that. We went 16-4 and crushed teams last year so it’s completely possible you could win with a “normal” 2C but you’d just be less dominant. Like Horvat likely doesn’t keep pace and does what Kadri did the regular season but he could be 70% of what Kadri was in the playoffs last year. Maybe even more if he stayed healthy.
 
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