Rumor: 2022-2023 Trade Rumors and Free Agency: The Search for a 2C

[Pierce Hawthorne]

People don't factor in how much teams value that "garbage" come playoff time tho. Chiarot/Manson both just signed long term deals at 30+ for 4+ mill a season by two GM's who are considered among the best in the game.

If Colorado was one of the worst teams in the league and dangled Manson out there at the deadline I bet somebody bites.

Doesn't mean it isn't still garbage.

 

[ANewHope]

Doesn't mean it isn't still garbage.

I don't think it is. You just need that kinda support in a 7 game series with certain defensive cores. They tend to come at a cost. You can try and go cheaper with a Nemeth or pay up for a Manson. If we don't re-sign Manson were still adding someone like that and there tends to be much a bigger difference with those types of players.

I think you just have to be realistic and realize it's not a regular season move. EJ looked absolutely toast last year and was perfectly fine in the playoffs. I'd argue actually pretty good. Same with Manson. Manson wasn't impressive at all with us in the regular season. Just like he isn't this year. He was needed and helped us win a cup and we'll need someone like him again in the playoffs.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

I don't think it is. You just need that kinda support in a 7 game series with certain defensive cores. They tend to come at a cost. You can try and go cheaper with a Nemeth or pay up for a Manson. If we don't re-sign Manson were still adding someone like that and there tends to be much a bigger difference with those types of players.

I think you just have to be realistic and realize it's not a regular season move. EJ looked absolutely toast last year and was perfectly fine in the playoffs. I'd argue actually pretty good. Same with Manson. Manson wasn't impressive at all with us in the regular season. Just like he isn't this year. He was needed and helped us win a cup and we'll need someone like him again in the playoffs.

Manson is garbage. He just is.

 

[Foppa2118]

What? No they weren't. If they were he'd be an Av.

Balth we get along and I haven't even been here in a month. But I never understand why you sometimes have such strong reactions to trivial things?

Kadri signed in Calgary for $7M. Not a number in the $6's.

Friedman or someone mentioned that the Avs could only afford Kadri if it came with an AAV in the $6's, and ESPN and possibly others reported the Avs offered Naz $6M x 4.

"Colorado also reportedly put an extension closer to four years and $24 million on the table."

ESPN $6M x 4

 

[nammerus]

You wanted to be on the hook for 40 years old Kadri?

Better then being on the hook for a 31-32 y/o Manson.

 

[SoftMittsHardSticks]

Manson is garbage. He just is.

I get that you're known for hot takes, but this one is a bit too hot right now. Manson was, and will continue to be integral to the way the Avs play PLAYOFF hockey.
At this point, it doesn't matter if the Avs are the President's trophy winners or a wildcard team.
The only thing that matters is the playoffs. That is where Manson's style of play becomes far more integral to the team.
I would almost go so far as to say that Manson and Girard represent the "yin and yang" of regular season VS. post season effectiveness for defensemen

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

I get that you're known for hot takes, but this one is a bit too hot right now. Manson was, and will continue to be integral to the way the Avs play PLAYOFF hockey.
At this point, it doesn't matter if the Avs are the President's trophy winners or a wildcard team.
The only thing that matters is the playoffs. That is where Manson's style of play becomes far more integral to the team.
I would almost go so far as to say that Manson and Girard represent the "yin and yang" of regular season VS. post season effectiveness for defensemen

No, he won't.

He's old and he is regressing into a bad hockey player. It's as simple as that.

Literally not even a hot take. A simple fact that some of you just struggle to accept.

 

[SoftMittsHardSticks]

No, he won't.

He's old and he is regressing into a bad hockey player. It's as simple as that.

Literally not even a hot take. A simple fact that some of you just struggle to accept.

Doesn't look like regression to me

 

[Balthazar]

Balth we get along and I haven't even been here in a month. But I never understand why you sometimes have such strong reactions to trivial things?

Kadri signed in Calgary for $7M. Not a number in the $6's.

Friedman or someone mentioned that the Avs could only afford Kadri if it came with an AAV in the $6's, and ESPN and possibly others reported the Avs offered Naz $6M x 4.

"Colorado also reportedly put an extension closer to four years and $24 million on the table."

ESPN $6M x 4

Yea I mentioned in another post that they were probably offering something in the 6's but without the term they knew he'd never accept that.

The point I was trying to make was that if the Avs wanted Kadri in the low 6's they could have had him because the same money that Calgary gave him spread over 8 years is 6.1M AAV.

It's pretty safe to assume that if the Avs offered him 8 X 6M Kadri would have jumped on that.

 

[Colorado Avalanche]

One thing we have to remember, AVS offered that probably earlier in the off-season.. Kadri was hoping for way bigger offers which never showed up, but at that point it was too late for Avalanche to match.(to make trades to fit him in etc).

6.1mil isn't bad price for a second line center, but who knows when he starts regressing..

 

[redacted]

Avs were in the Kadri negotiations until the end.

 

[Bill Peckerskull]

LeBrun rumblings: Enticing NHL trade candidates (O'Reilly? Horvat?) and potential deadline buyers emerging early in 2022-23

Ryan O'Reilly, Bo Horvat and Jonathan Toews could all be on the market, and at least one NHL powerhouse is well-positioned to bid on them.

theathletic.com

All of which brings us to one obvious suitor when it comes to a potential trade for O’Reilly, Horvat or Toews: Colorado.

The reigning Stanley Cup champion Avalanche lost No. 2 center Nazem Kadri to the Flames in free agency this past summer, and I’m convinced they will try to go out and replace him — even if just for this year’s playoffs — closer to the March 3 trade deadline.

O’Reilly, Horvat and Toews would all be good fits on Colorado’s second line.

Horvat would be the most expensive acquisition, to be sure, but it’s worth pointing out that the Avs do still have their first-round pick for the June NHL Draft. (The Canucks would surely want a first-round pick as part of a bigger package.)

Toews, by virtue of his full no-move, limits Chicago’s ability to manufacture a true market, so he’s likely the cheapest to acquire, asset-wise, although someone has to pay an asset for the third-party broker to get involved.

A healthy Sean Monahan (also a pending UFA) from Montreal could be another option for Colorado.

But if I were Avs GM Chris MacFarland and were looking to bolster my lineup for a chance to repeat, O’Reilly and Toews are the two guys I’d zero in on closer to March 3 — two captains who have won and understand what it takes come playoff time.

It would be ironic, of course, if O’Reilly ended up back in Denver, where his NHL career began, especially given what transpired there. As you might remember, he signed a two-year, $10 million offer sheet with the Flames in February 2013 coming out of the lockout, which the Avs begrudgingly matched. That eventually led to his June 2015 trade to Buffalo. But lots of time has passed since then. I can’t imagine Joe Sakic would hold that kind of grudge.

 

[Vaslof]

Avs offer was more than fair. The Flames were just more desperate. Then there's all the other teams who thought it was a bad idea to give Kadri a big contract. I don't think the Avs did anything wrong here.

 

[Bill Peckerskull]

Nothing really new there, except acknowledgment from LeBrun that these guys are available, the Avs are in need of a 2C, and how they all would be good fits for the Avs.

 

[Chiarelli]

I think the Avs cheaped out lol they paid for MacK and Nuke and then some shorter term filler stuff. Did not want to hand out another big 7+ year contract.

 

[Foppa2118]

Yea I mentioned in another post that they were probably offering something in the 6's but without the term they knew he'd never accept that.

The point I was trying to make was that if the Avs wanted Kadri in the low 6's they could have had him because the same money that Calgary gave him spread over 8 years is 6.1M AAV.

It's pretty safe to assume that if the Avs offered him 8 X 6M Kadri would have jumped on that.

Ok no big deal.

But I would disagree it's safe to assume the Avs could have got him for 8 x $6M.

Maybe they could have, but that would be $48M over 8 years and he held out most of the summer for $49M over 7 years, which would give him $1M more and an extra year to possibly earn even more. Also, I don't think the Avs were interested in an 8 year term with Naz at 32.

 

[Colorado Avalanche]

Avs were in the Kadri negotiations until the end.

I am then surprised they didn't bite

I guess the biggest problem is, they know it would be bad contract at some point and owner would have to buy him out.

And maybe they believe this core has five more years left in them, while Kadri at best maybe 2-3, so they didn't want to commit more than four years because after that he would become big burden, potentially.

Basically Colorado wants someone younger.

Ok no big deal.

But I would disagree it's safe to assume the Avs could have got him for 8 x $6M.

Maybe they could have, but that would be $48M over 8 years and he held out most of the summer for $49M over 7 years, which would give him $1M more and an extra year to possibly earn even more. Also, I don't think the Avs were interested in an 8 year term with Naz at 32.

I'd be shocked if he played hockey when he is 39 and what sort of contract he would get. Extra year when you are 39 isn't worth much. Unless you are one of the elites who still performed then. Very tiny chance.

 

[redacted]

I am then surprised they didn't bite

I guess the biggest problem is, they know it would be bad contract at some point and owner would have to buy him out.

I don't know the exact offer, but it really hinged on getting rid of EJ's contract for the cap. Anaheim and the Avs were in deep discussions about it that likely ended once the Klingberg deal was finalized. They were willing to take on EJ's contract, but wanted a 1st. When they signed Klingberg for a not dissimilar amount of money, it was with the idea the could flip him for a 1st at the deadline. Either way about buying a pick so to speak for them. Avs just weren't willing to spend that to make the room.

 

[Ararana]

God I would love a ROR rental. But I just can't see it happening because 1, too much bad blood there and 2, no way St Louis is throwing a bone to the team who knocked them out of the postseason year after year.

 

[The Abusement Park]

God I would love a ROR rental. But I just can't see it happening because 1, too much bad blood there and 2, no way St Louis is throwing a bone to the team who knocked them out of the postseason year after year.

I need to see ROR actually play well this year before I have an interest in him. I don’t want to spend a 1st+ on a guy who looks completely cooked.

 

[Balthazar]

I don't know the exact offer, but it really hinged on getting rid of EJ's contract for the cap. Anaheim and the Avs were in deep discussions about it that likely ended once the Klingberg deal was finalized. They were willing to take on EJ's contract, but wanted a 1st. When they signed Klingberg for a not dissimilar amount of money, it was with the idea the could flip him for a 1st at the deadline. Either way about buying a pick so to speak for them. Avs just weren't willing to spend that to make the room.

That'd explain why it took so long for Kadri to sign in CGY. He really was waiting to see if the Avs could make cap room.

Also that @RoyIsALegend story of a player who thought he'd not be an Av anymore in the upcoming days, it was probably EJ.

 

[The Merchant]

The real 2C solution is on the way, don't worry guys

 

[Colorado Avalanche]

I don't know the exact offer, but it really hinged on getting rid of EJ's contract for the cap. Anaheim and the Avs were in deep discussions about it that likely ended once the Klingberg deal was finalized. They were willing to take on EJ's contract, but wanted a 1st. When they signed Klingberg for a not dissimilar amount of money, it was with the idea the could flip him for a 1st at the deadline. Either way about buying a pick so to speak for them. Avs just weren't willing to spend that to make the room.

That's very interesting. 1st sounds like a high price.

 

[Balthazar]

That's very interesting. 1st sounds like a high price.

That's what the Flames paid to get rid of Monahan on a similar contract.

I'm guessing that Anaheim was the only team with cap space that wasn't on EJ's no trade list.

 

[Ararana]

I need to see ROR actually play well this year before I have an interest in him. I don’t want to spend a 1st+ on a guy who looks completely cooked.

Eh, 1C vs 2C duties would play a big role. And a new team (and more likely to compete) would probably reignite him. I wouldn't extend him, but I think he'd be fine as a rental this year. At worst case, still leaps and bounds better than what they have now.

It's a bit funny to me that people want Jonathan Toews but ROR is cooked.