Rumor: 2022-2023 Trade Rumors and Free Agency (Mod Warning in OP)

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I do think we're seeing Mack sacrifice a little offense for defense, and he'll likely be more consistent because of it.

I didn't think I'd see Datsyuk be labeled as over rated though. Detroit has their crazies, and bandwagon fans, but living here I appreciate that this state lives and breaths hockey like few places I've lived in the US.

I dunno, this past season was Mack's worst season Defensively since he was a rookie I know we've kind of exhausted the "Mack is old and past him prime, his next contract will suck" talk in this thread already today...


But that was a conversation being had all throughout this year in different GDTs as well. I think a few people noticed Mack wasn't quite as dominant this year as we're used to and it really showed on the defensive side.


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Now, playoff Mack might have been a different beast in that regard. He certainly looked like he gave a shit at least especially in that series against Tampa Bay. Part of his regular season struggles also might have to do with his mindset seemingly being set on not caring about the regular season and really only caring about winning the cup at this point.


Hopefully that was the case and now that he's accomplished the Cup win, he'll go back to just beasting out all year round.
 
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Bergeron is definitely in a tier of his own IMO.

Datsyuk was elite in his prime though. They were probably on a pretty similar level for a few years but Datsyuk's game fell off towards the end while Bergeron just keeps on going.


Toews is a weird one. I think he's always been overrated and the Canadian media played such a massive role in that back in the day. Remember all those discussions the Canadian media outlets had about Toews being the best player in the world, better then Crosby and certainly ahead of Ovechkin. They were laughable takes at the time and are especially laughable in hindsight IMO. One of the most overrated players of this generation I would say.

Fun fact on Toews: Outside of the lockout shortened 2012/13 season, Toews has never had a single season with PPG+ numbers. His best season was 81 points in 82 games in 2018/19.
but but intangibles
 
I finally got around to watching the ESPN unrivaled documentary. Man that got me all fired up again. Re-living all those memories. I still hate Darren McCarty. Draper still hates Lemieux. Crazy times!
 
I think MacKinnon is a ways away from dropping off to the point where the Avs have a tough time building around him.

He doesn’t even have to be the teams’ best player anymore. He could probably drop off to being a point per game guy and the Avs would still be tough to beat.

Ultimately the core will age out eventually, but I think they’ve got at least 4 more years where they’re going to be damn good.

The Avs really need a second line centre. Short term and long term. If they could find a long term answer to that position, they’d basically have every critical position locked up for several years. Unless Georgiev implodes, then they’d need a goalie, of course.
 
Recency bias tells us that Bergeron is better than Datsyuk and Toews were massively overrated.

In his prime, Datsyuk was an absolute magician on the ice. One of the most unique players to play. Toews too was absolutely dominant. They are similar in that they were at or near the top of the league in their prime, but their primes were short-lived. Bergeron has been much more consistent but has never been the best player in the league. Hell, it's arguable he's never been the best on his team during his run. But his legacy will be different.

I was also someone who would have taken Toews over Crosby in that time frame because my judgement lies heavily on playoff performance. Toews was getting it done at both ends of the ice, and would make clutch play after clutch play. He was also one of the best 1-on-1 players in the league

I agree on Toews, but Datsyuk?

He and Bergeron have similar career point totals (918 vs 982 for Bergeron), but Datsyuk played way fewer games (953 vs 1,216). Datsyuk retired at 37 and Bergeron just turned 37 and is looking at likely his last season, so in that sense their careers are similar. The difference in GP is Bergeron played at 18 but Datsyuk didn't make the NHL until 23.

I'm not necessarily saying Datsyuk is better but he definitely had a long, consistent career (unlike Toews, who looks like burnt toast).
 
It's finally nice to see people went from saying the Avs would need to retool when Mack's contract kicks in to retooling in 5-6 years.

I feel comfortable saying that Landy, Mack, Makar and Byram will still be here in 5-6 years. IMO anybody else will be fair game...yep even Mikko could be gone before he hits 30.
 
I think MacKinnon is a ways away from dropping off to the point where the Avs have a tough time building around him.

He doesn’t even have to be the teams’ best player anymore. He could probably drop off to being a point per game guy and the Avs would still be tough to beat.

Ultimately the core will age out eventually, but I think they’ve got at least 4 more years where they’re going to be damn good.

The Avs really need a second line centre. Short term and long term. If they could find a long term answer to that position, they’d basically have every critical position locked up for several years. Unless Georgiev implodes, then they’d need a goalie, of course.
He didnt have a choice in this when Makar came of age.
 
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It's finally nice to see people went from saying the Avs would need to retool when Mack's contract kicks in to retooling in 5-6 years.

I feel comfortable saying that Landy, Mack, Makar and Byram will still be here in 5-6 years. IMO anybody else will be fair game...yep even Mikko could be gone before he hits 30.

I think you're misunderstanding us. There's a retool coming well before that 5-6 year threshold.


Thay retool won't be driven by an aging core, it's gonna be driven by a lack of cap space.

Basically, what Hench is saying is in 5-6 years this core isn't a contender at all due to age.


But before that, they're gonna have to retool on the fly here in the next year or two because the cap space is gonna dry up. I would say between Toews/Girard/Lehkonen/Nuke they probably lose 2/4 but possibly 3 depending on what happens with Byram and Mack and just how much they ask for.
 
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I think its also important that not everyone has the same definition of what a re-tool is. Some people may equate it to swapping out half your core. Others may see it as moving out 1 or 2 core pieces. Then again, some people consider a core 8 or 9 players while others see it as 5-6.
 
This has been one of the worst off seasons here on these boards that I can remember. And what make it more hilarious is that we just WON the damn cup.

I've heard it all this offseason.

Everyone is 250K overpaid
Trade Toews
Trade Girard
Trade Byram
Macks gonna be shit when he's passed 30
OMG Compher 2C
Trade Newhook Avs don't believe in him
Our window is closing


Guys calm the f*** down and go enjoy a beverage.
 
I think you're misunderstanding us. There's a retool coming well before that 5-6 year threshold.


Thay retool won't be driven by an aging core, it's gonna be driven by a lack of cap space.
That's not what I am reading. I see most of the same players names when people are talking about the team in 5-6 years. What I read is people saying a couple of players from the current core will need to go obviously but most will be here.

It is encouraging to see people are starting to think we might be able to remain quite competitive for longer than a couple of years. FTR I do believe the Avs will need to retool but if CMac/Sakic do it right we might not dip too much in the standings while doing so and be able to remain a decent contender. Certainly not a cup favorite but a decent contender nonetheless.
 
I think you're misunderstanding us. There's a retool coming well before that 5-6 year threshold.


Thay retool won't be driven by an aging core, it's gonna be driven by a lack of cap space.
That's not what I am reading. I see most of the same players names when people are talking about the team in 5-6 years. What I read is people saying a couple of players from the current core will need to go obviously but most will be here.

It is encouraging to see people are starting to think we might be able to remain quite competitive for longer than a couple of years. FTR I do believe the Avs will need to retool but if CMac/Sakic do it right we might not dip too much in the standings while doing so and be able to remain a decent contender. Certainly not a cup favorite but a decent contender nonetheless.
This has been one of the worst off seasons here on these boards that I can remember. And what make it more hilarious is that we just WON the damn cup.

I've heard it all this offseason.

Everyone is 250K overpaid
Trade Toews
Trade Girard
Trade Byram
Macks gonna be shit when he's passed 30
OMG Compher 2C
Trade Newhook Avs don't believe in him
Our window is closing


Guys calm the f*** down and go enjoy a beverage.
I think you are the one that need to calm down.

Nobody said Mack will be shit when he is passed 30.
I don't remember anybody saying the Avs don't believe in Newy.
Everyone is 250K overpaid has become more of a joke now than a statement.

The Avs will need a 2C once Kadri officially leaves hence why people are exploring all options to get a new 2C. Obviously players like Girard, Toews, Newhook and even Byram will be discussed as they are the only pieces that are good enough to help getting that player.
 
I agree on Toews, but Datsyuk?

He and Bergeron have similar career point totals (918 vs 982 for Bergeron), but Datsyuk played way fewer games (953 vs 1,216). Datsyuk retired at 37 and Bergeron just turned 37 and is looking at likely his last season, so in that sense their careers are similar. The difference in GP is Bergeron played at 18 but Datsyuk didn't make the NHL until 23.

I'm not necessarily saying Datsyuk is better but he definitely had a long, consistent career (unlike Toews, who looks like burnt toast).
I think Datsyuk was much better than Bergeron, that's what I'm saying. He was also better than Toews. But for a few years there I would have taken Toews over anyone.

Also, people are writing off Toews way too early. The guy took an entire year off to deal with some burnout from who knows what, and it's not surprising given the amount of toxicity that's been exposed in the Blackhawks org. He played much better in the 2nd half of the year and his story is far from written. I think he'd be rejuvenated on a new team. He's still got a few good years left.
 
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That's not what I am reading. I see most of the same players names when people are talking about the team in 5-6 years. What I read is people saying a couple of players from the current core will need to go obviously but most will be here.

It is encouraging to see people are starting to think we might be able to remain quite competitive for longer than a couple of years. FTR I do believe the Avs will need to retool but if CMac/Sakic do it right we might not dip too much in the standings while doing so and be able to remain a decent contender. Certainly not a cup favorite but a decent contender nonetheless.

As someone else just alluded to, it all depends on ones definition of a retool.


Personally I see it playing out like this:


2022-23: Top tier cup contender, we should be all in again trying to repeat and go back to back. The only real difference from last year's roster to this year is Kadri, and he can be replaced comfortably at the deadline. Goaltending is a also an unknown for the regular season at least.

2023-24: This would be the first year of the retool. We're almost certainly losing one of Girard/Toews this summer as we simply won't have the cap space for all 3 LHD. We might even lose a forward at this point(Lehky or Newhook would be the one we lose) because cap is going to be seriously tight next summer. This is also the summer where our depth will get trimmed even further. We're gonna have to be icing 4th line guys making 750k pretty much to fit under the cap.

They should still be a playoff team, but I would bet on this being the year we see them step back from the top of the division and possibly lose out on home ice advantage in the first round sort of thing.

2024-25: Year 2 of the retool and I would guess the toughest year. Unless the cap rises significantly, you're probably losing another core guy from the roster at this point. Probably Toews as he prices himself out of Colorado as a UFA. Also need to realize this summer is where Mikko is 1 year away from free agency.

At this point, you're probably still looking at a core group of Mack/Mikko/Gabe at forward, Byram/Makar on Defense. But it's definitely a good possibility that at this point we've lost Toews and Girard, and one of Lehky/Nuke.

The biggest factor going forward is going to be our prospects and where they're at development wise. It would do a lot for this teams future to have Behrens establishing himself as a Top 4 LD in the next 2-3 years and one or two forwards to have broken out and established themselves as Top 9 forwards.

If I had to guess a year where the Avs miss the playoffs coming up, this would be the year it happens IMO.


From that point onward, it doesn't exactly get easier either. Mikko is a UFA that next summer. And then I believe Cale a UFA the year after that. And on top of all that, Gabe is ~33, Manson is 34, Mack is ~31.


The pressure at this point is really on the scouting staff to start producing decent NHL talent in the draft. If they can do that, you might be able to go through a quick 1-2 year retool and then open a new window up for 2-3 more years with some new young players in that core.


That's how I see the ideal scenario playing out. One more year of being a cup favorite. Then a short 1-2 year retool, our scouts earn the money during this stage and find 2-3 impact players and we come out in 2025 with a new window and chance to get one more cup before the veteran guys start to really show their age.
 
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