Rumor: 2022-2023 Trade Rumors and Free Agency (Mod Warning in OP)

[Avaholic29]

Lol nah bro that's some other imposter who stole my first name. I go by the same Richard88 name on capfriendly as well. You should have been able to tell from that awful trade proposal that it wasn't me, come on man


Actually it would be easy. All you say is "no".

Fair enough hahah maybe I’m higher and guhle than I should be.

 

[ANewHope]

5-6 years from now, it really won't matter how good MacK is... the core will be aged out and not contending. Pay the man his money and try to contend... deal with the consequences of a mid 30s hockey team when it happens.

So how good Mackinnon is won’t matter when Makar is 29 and Byram is 26? If he’s finished vs being a low tier 1C/average 2C would be pretty massive.

I agree deal with the consequences and it’ll eventually come crashing down but our older core aging well with Makar/Byram would be pretty significant.

 

[Avsboy]

Mack won’t decline until 34 unless he gets “fat as shit.” He takes care of himself too well.

 

[bromando]

I feel the board needs a reset haha. We just won the Cup and there is more bickering than when we suck

 

[MacKaRtin]

He might be able to adjust his game to compensate though. In fact he did just that in these playoffs. His two-way game was much better because he wanted to help anyway he could. He said so himself.

Thank you for bringing this up. To me, this was the most interesting soundbyte from the long High Button interview. That MacKinnon consciously played a more balanced game with equal emphasis on defensive aspects. I thought he played great in the St Louis and Edmonton series, even if his offensive game was a bit buttonhook-heavy for a stretch of games there.

 

[CobraAcesS]

Nah... he's gonna stink. I've been convinced by the facts that no one presented as far as precedence that he's just not going to be worth the $12M per year in 2031 in that contract that he's yet to sign.

Players like Crosby, Ovechkin, Malkin, Jagr, Sakic, Datsyuk, Messier, Francis, Yzerman and many more can all play really well up to age 35 but MacKinnon CANNOT play well up to age 34.

Got it.

There is a tangible reason for that. It is sheer work ethic. Look at what Staal did for himself instead of just accepting his own decline.

Seen it plenty of times in the Army. There are just dudes that don't seem to age much when it comes to physical fitness, but it takes a ridiculous worth ethic. Not only consistency, but consistently pushing the envelope on training, but it's a longer process, and a dynamic one.

The superstars usually have that work ethic. That is the simple difference. Mack ran light poles as a kid on the way to school, and their skates in the off season are only predicted on work ethic as far as being invited back.

Not that worried about Mack until maybe 35ish around when it's easy to lose ground if you are not consistently trying to gain it instead of maintaining.

I've seen 50 year Olds who can out do guys that are legit and half their age. Just depends on how hard you want to work outside of the obvious injuries etc.

 

[Raucherhusten]

I feel the board needs a reset haha. We just won the Cup and there is more bickering than when we suck

Guys are just practicing for the future, because eventually we'll suck again. And we have to be prepared for that moment ... or else ...

 

[redacted]

So how good Mackinnon is won’t matter when Makar is 29 and Byram is 26? If he’s finished vs being a low tier 1C/average 2C would be pretty massive.

I agree deal with the consequences and it’ll eventually come crashing down but our older core aging well with Makar/Byram would be pretty significant.

Yeah because you need more than 3 guys. Once the majority get over 30, it is typically over for any team. You might get another year, maybe 2 at max. Landy is 30 in the fall. MacK is 30 in 3 years. Rantanen in 4 years. G and Makar are 30 in 6. Really in 3-4 years the majority will tick over and the likelihood becomes much lower. 5-6 is on the generous side, especially 6 when Makar ticks over. It won't be that some of them won't be good or even great players (of the group... Makar is going to age incredibly well), but simply that the only core player under 30 is going to be Byram.

Here's the thing though... 5-6 years is an eternity in hockey. If they can last that long, it will have already been an incredible job.

In other words, enjoy the ride now. Don't worry about 2026 or 2030.

 

[Golden Foppa]

I feel the board needs a reset haha. We just won the Cup and there is more bickering than when we suck

Agreed. Everyone should sit a few plays out and relax.

October 12 can't come soon enough and if we still have a hole at 2C, this team as it's constructed today is good enough to storm through the regular season until the right option presents itself.

 

[John Mandalorian]

Deketed.

 

[Islay1989]

Careful, we've got some posters who think this iteration is the greatest sports franchise ever that will never age. They wont respond kindly to you telling them the core wont be contending 5 years from now.


They also dont appreciate us praising good players that dont play for Colorado so we're gonna have to lay off that Lundell talk and only speak highly about Byram.

There's praising players who play on other teams and there's calling them the 2nd coming of the best defensive center to ever play the game.

 

[The Kingslayer]

Yeah but not until his mid 30's like most athletes. He's more than 5 years away from that unless he suffers a catastrophic injury.

Yah im not expecting it to happen anytime soon. in 10 years.

 

[MacKaRtin]

Oh I've already experienced it... simple fact of the matter, in today's NHL when the majority of your core crosses 30... you don't really contend anymore. Maybe hold on in the playoffs and win a round, but never really contend. The data here is very clear on the subject. Whether people wan to believe it or not, well... I can't control that.

The anomaly being the Capitals then? Ovechkin, Backstrom, and Oshie were all on the wrong side of 30. Carlson and Holtby were in their late 20s. Kuznetsov was the only key player that was in a traditional "prime" period.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

There's praising players who play on other teams and there's calling them the 2nd coming of the best defensive center to ever play the game.

That's fine, when we are right about Lundell, we'll be sure to let you guys know!!

 

[CobraAcesS]

Man, I'm reminded what it was like seeing Messier plod along as a 4th line center when he was like 44 or something in New York, that was painful to watch.

That has nothing to do with Nate BTW, just a random musing.

Yeah, notice how Sakic, Roy, and Forsberg all left when they didn't feel like they could play at a level that they wanted to? I think all three had a couple of seasons left. Maybe not for Forsberg, but I remember thinking the dude is still capable of out playing everyone on one foot lol. He obviously had his own standards for himself though. We seen some interesting shit watching that team age out, and it's part of life. It is all part of the story, arguing over what we think might happen is kinda hilarious actually.

I don't know, I have equal respect for guys who stick around in lower roles though. Just different.

 

[CobraAcesS]

The anomaly being the Capitals then? Ovechkin, Backstrom, and Oshie were all on the wrong side of 30. Carlson and Holtby were in their late 20s. Kuznetsov was the only key player that was in a traditional "prime" period.

Remember how that Euro team did with all of those aging players? Pit was a good example at the highest level of winning, but you have to be a little impressed with both Boston and Washington retooling per say, and their older core still leading the charge.

I was really curious to see how it went down with Detroit. They stayed good for a lot longer, but I think Lidstrom's retirement was the lynch pin there. Then obviously Datsyuk.

It will be interesting to see if LA can retool or not. Some of those prospects will have to hit like Boston with McAvoy.

I like that our D core is on the younger side of our core. They're a lot harder to replace. Hell no on trading Byram lol.

 

[Bill Peckerskull]

 

[redacted]

The anomaly being the Capitals then? Ovechkin, Backstrom, and Oshie were all on the wrong side of 30. Carlson and Holtby were in their late 20s. Kuznetsov was the only key player that was in a traditional "prime" period.

They were an anomaly for a number of reasons, but they still pretty much fit this:

Ovi was 32
Backstrom 30
Carlson 28
Kuznetsov 26
Oshie 31
Orlov 26
Holtby 28
Wilson 24

If you consider Eller a part of that core, then you have another guy in their 20s. So really only 3 guys on the wrong side of 30 in the group of 8 or 9. They've also not advanced past the 1st round since which fits the idea you might get a last year or two, but the slide is heavy after.

 

[CobraAcesS]

Oh I've already experienced it... simple fact of the matter, in today's NHL when the majority of your core crosses 30... you don't really contend anymore. Maybe hold on in the playoffs and win a round, but never really contend. The data here is very clear on the subject. Whether people wan to believe it or not, well... I can't control that.

At least Mack & Makar are the type of players who tend to push that envelope. I also think if Landys one leg being shorter than the other thing is actually figured out he'll age better than expected. I really thought he was going to start declining already, noticeably lol.

Our core does have quite the age range now with the mix of really two rebuilds. Three if you want to consider that 48 point year another starting point. Our entire core won't walk off a cliff at the same time, not even close.

It's way too complicated to rely on historical data. We have a grip of players who have defied odds, and have insane work ethic.

 

[Foppberg]

I feel the board needs a reset haha. We just won the Cup and there is more bickering than when we suck

No kidding . A loser mindset around here more than there should be.

 

[The Kingslayer]

No kidding . A loser mindset around here more than there should be.

Safe to say Cup hangover is over on here.

 

[redacted]

Remember how that Euro team did with all of those aging players? Pit was a good example at the highest level of winning, but you have to be a little impressed with both Boston and Washington retooling per say, and their older core still leading the charge.

I was really curious to see how it went down with Detroit. They stayed good for a lot longer, but I think Lidstrom's retirement was the lynch pin there. Then obviously Datsyuk.

It will be interesting to see if LA can retool or not. Some of those prospects will have to hit like Boston with McAvoy.

I like that our D core is on the younger side of our core. They're a lot harder to replace. Hell no on trading Byram lol.

Detroit of the early cap era kept going because they got steals in the draft prior to the cap and overall drafting improvement.

Funny enough though, the 08 team wasn't nearly as old as people think... Magic man was 29, Zetterburg was 27, Stuart was 28, Kronwall 27, Franzen 28, Hudler 24, Fillpula 23... Lidstrom, Osgood, and Rafalski were old AF (Chelios even older)... the meat of that team was in their prime.

At least Mack & Makar are the type of players who tend to push that envelope. I also think if Landys one leg being shorter than the other thing is actually figured out he'll age better than expected. I really thought he was going to start declining already, noticeably lol.

Our core does have quite the age range now with the mix of really two rebuilds. Three if you want to consider that 48 point year another starting point. Our entire core won't walk off a cliff at the same time, not even close.

It's way too complicated to rely on historical data. We have a grip of players who have defied odds, and have insane work ethic.

I think Makar will age incredibly well. I don't agree on MacK... he doesn't have a lot of IQ to his game and he lives on absurd tools. When the tools start to slip, you see those players drop faster than IQ heavy ones. I actually think Landy is a guy that will hold up until 33 or so... he plays an IQ heavy game and tends to not push his body too hard in the regular season. Father time will get him eventually, but he will probably defy the odds longer than most expect.

 

[ANewHope]

Yeah because you need more than 3 guys. Once the majority get over 30, it is typically over for any team. You might get another year, maybe 2 at max. Landy is 30 in the fall. MacK is 30 in 3 years. Rantanen in 4 years. G and Makar are 30 in 6. Really in 3-4 years the majority will tick over and the likelihood becomes much lower. 5-6 is on the generous side, especially 6 when Makar ticks over. It won't be that some of them won't be good or even great players (of the group... Makar is going to age incredibly well), but simply that the only core player under 30 is going to be Byram.

Here's the thing though... 5-6 years is an eternity in hockey. If they can last that long, it will have already been an incredible job.

In other words, enjoy the ride now. Don't worry about 2026 or 2030.

Yeah you need more than 3 guys but obviously there's more than that on this team and you can still make moves/who knows what the rest of the roster looks like by than. For all we know we make a huge blockbuster trade in the next 2 years that changes the entire conversation. MacKinnon is a massive piece tho. Him being a low end 1C at 31/32 would be gigantic. If he's finished at 32 than there's no way your going to break the trend without that key piece. Assuming Byram reaches his potential, Makar ages well, having a 70ish point low end 1C in MacKinnon would make life alot easier trying to win a cup in 5-6 years.

I agree for the most part. Just saying if our core bucks the averages and ages well it'll make a significant difference. Well it's certainly not likely or like follows the past it's possible. Having a 23 year old Conn Symthe/Norris winner and potential 21 year old 1D makes the Avs situation pretty unique.

 

[CobraAcesS]

Safe to say Cup hangover is over on here.

I'm actually really impressed Kadri was the only real casualty. We don't have to spend assets on a new #4D, the 4th line is all back, and Nuke is locked in at a reasonable amount. Since I think Nuke is for real, and going to give Landy a run at being the best all around winger on the team. I'm pretty happy with that.

I'm looking forward to seeing if Mikko can hang for a longer period at center, and produce. It would solve a lot of issues.

We should actually start seeing some of the benefits of being a proven team as well. Colorado has been high on players lists, but not the final choice for a while.

If I'm being realistic, I'm very happy with the off season so far. They can certainly screw it up still though. Just stick with flexibility, and don't force a bad play to fix the middle of the roster. One more grab from the waiver or cheap UFA cap casualty I think is all we see for depth. Unless that perfect trade manifests.

Hockey trade, Mikko solving the center issue, or trading the 1st for a rental are all feasible options before the TDL. That's a good amount of flexibility IMO.

 

[redacted]

Yeah you need more than 3 guys but obviously there's more than that on this team and you can still make moves/who knows what the rest of the roster looks like by than. For all we know we make a huge blockbuster trade in the next 2 years that changes the entire conversation. MacKinnon is a massive piece tho. Him being a low end 1C at 31/32 would be gigantic. If he's finished at 32 than there's no way your going to break the trend without that key piece. Assuming Byram reaches his potential, Makar ages well, having a 70ish point low end 1C in MacKinnon would make life alot easier trying to win a cup in 5-6 years.

I agree for the most part. Just saying if our core bucks the averages and ages well it'll make a significant difference. Well it's certainly not likely or like follows the past it's possible. Having a 23 year old Conn Symthe/Norris winner and potential 21 year old 1D makes the Avs situation pretty unique.

When it comes to averages... eventually they even out. When your talking a core, you're really talking about your 1-2Cs, Top 3D, 2 top 6 wingers, and a goalie. Sometimes you throw in another winger or 3C. Sometimes you leave out a goalie (I would). But that is the general idea... a group of 8 or 9 guys that the team is really built around. When half of that group gets above 30, no matter how good they are, it is very difficult to continue. When half of that group is 32-33+ and all but 1 or 2 are over 30.. it is damn near impossible. One or two guys exceeding for a bit doesn't change the overall average that much. Even in the heyday of no cap, those ages were hard to overcome. In the cap world it has really become impossible over time. At best you get a final year or two. Which is why I call it 5-6 at max.

Now you're right a blockbuster trade could change things, but those that re-shape cores like that are fairly rare and the assets the Avs have at their disposal are unlikely to shave a bunch of years off the core age.

What is more likely though is the Avs will face the same re-tool path that LA has had to face. The ages of the core groups line up (Avs are a bit older... more Kings' second Cup, but similar). Eventually the Kings had to accept a re-tool where I think they have been pretty successful. Results still have to play out, but about as successful as you can get with Doughty and Kopitar. I'd argue they should have started a year or two earlier and would be better off... but that is hard for an organization to accept so shortly after winning a Cup.