Rumor: 2022-2023 Trade Rumors and Free Agency (Mod Warning in OP)

[Bill Peckerskull]

 

[hughdreamz]

Isn’t he disregarding the multiple “insiders” who said he has a deal in place?

 

[pockets]

Isn’t he disregarding the multiple “insiders” who said he has a deal in place?

What insiders said a deal was in place?

 

[John Mandalorian]

What insiders said a deal was in place?

Remember when Vancouver leaked to the media something about Miller and Lou subsequently pulled the plug? This could just be someone putting spin out there to juxtapose what's already been reported/speculated.

The face that this is happening, almost makes it look more likely that it's Naz to the NYI.

Of course, I could be completely wrong.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Daily hot take from my favourite poster. Peaked Byram, Nate past his prime years.. teams going to be dismantled in the next 3 years. It’s nothing but red hot takes from that man.

Oh look! He's making shit up again! What a surprise


guess I can play this game to.


- Byram will win the Norris next year,
- Mackinnon will win the Hart and Art Ross when he's 30
- The Avs will win the next 4 cups in a row! They're literally the greatest team to ever exist in all of sports! They will buck all the trends in history and completely defy the odds!



That's what it looks like when you are a completely delusional homer right?

 

[Bender]

Who the hell is Daniel Friedman? Elliott's dim-witted half-brother?

 

[ANewHope]

Oh look! He's making shit up again! What a surprise


guess I can play this game to.


- Byram will win the Norris next year,
- Mackinnon will win the Hart and Art Ross when he's 30
- The Avs will win the next 4 cups in a row! They're literally the greatest team to ever exist in all of sports! They will buck all the trends in history and completely defy the odds!



That's what it looks like when you are a completely delusional homer right?

But I don't think anybody has any of those takes? Nobody's saying Byram will win the Norris next year just that he hasn't peaked after like 70 NHL games. Nobody is saying MacKinnon will win the Hart/Ross at 30 but just that it's possible he's still a very good player. Nobody is saying the Avs will win the next 4 cups and buck every single trend but that if Sakic/C-Mac play there cards right it's possible the end isn't as close as some think. It's kinda like last year when people said it was our best shot and we'd regress playing in a harder division/losing Saad etc.

Everyone's entitled to there opinion but I don't think it's being a "homer" to have any of those takes. I think saying Byram's peaked after like 70 NHL games where he's been in an out of the lineup with injuries is alot more aggressive lol

 

[John Mandalorian]

Deleted

 

[Bill Peckerskull]

Who the hell is Daniel Friedman? Elliott's dim-witted half-brother?

Dude has a checkmark, so he's not just some rando on Twitter. Bio says:

I write occasionally. Some people even say I’m good at it. In the air, but still learning to fly. Current: @FullPressNHL . Previous: @SINow, @WFAN660, @IslesFix.

I only saw it because Buccigross retweeted it.

 

[AvsFan29]

Bo Byram is going to be neck-and-neck with Jack Hughes for the best player from the 2019 draft. Yes, he will be better than Mo Seider.

It would be pretty interesting if Byram/Makar were competing for the Norris. Not sure I've ever seen that happen between players on the same team.

 

[avsfan09]

Man, you are verging on obsession with Pierce. It's getting creepy.

Saying Nate's contract is not going to age well is not a hot take. Saying a players prime is mid twenties, is not a hot take.

Byram isn’t in his mid twenties though and he has missed a lot of time with concussions.

 

[willy702]

It would be pretty interesting if Byram/Makar were competing for the Norris. Not sure I've ever seen that happen between players on the same team.

They would take some of each others votes so unless they were lapping the field it's likely to end up with neither of them winning.

Pretty amusing some of these hot takes about if Byram is a 1D or not. Kind of like the comments about who is a 2C and who is not. Its all situational dependent. Next season Byram could be 1D quality on maybe 10-15 teams in the league. So does that make him a 1D in some posters minds? And its guaranteed the Avs will have a 2C to start the season. It is whoever lines up in that role come opening night.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

But I don't think anybody has any of those takes? Nobody's saying Byram will win the Norris next year just that he hasn't peaked after like 70 NHL games. Nobody is saying MacKinnon will win the Hart/Ross at 30 but just that it's possible he's still a very good player. Nobody is saying the Avs will win the next 4 cups and buck every single trend but that if Sakic/C-Mac play there cards right it's possible the end isn't as close as some think. It's kinda like last year when people said it was our best shot and we'd regress playing in a harder division/losing Saad etc.

Everyone's entitled to there opinion but I don't think it's being a "homer" to have any of those takes. I think saying Byram's peaked after like 70 NHL games where he's been in an out of the lineup with injuries is alot more aggressive lol

That's my point. He's making shit up and/or taking things completely out of context.


- Mackinnon's best years are almost certainly behind him already, but that doesn't mean he's not going to have good years ahead still. He's going to be 27 this year, and 28 when his next contract begins which will be for 8 years and probably in the neighborhood of $12M a year. You would honestly have to be wearing some rose tinted glasses to seriously think a 32 year old Nathan Mackinnon making $12M is going to be some steal of a contract. It's a contract that will get worse as ever year goes by. Just like Landeskog's, just like eventually Nichushkins.


- Byram already peaking is taken completely out of context but I also stand by what I said. In his sophomore year(This year, people forget last year was his rookie year and he developed quite a bit from last year to this year) he's basically already established himself as a high end #2/3 level Dman. It's not unreasonable at all to think he doesn't develop much further then that, especially if you're in the camp that doesn't think he has #1D upside, and there's certainly more then just me who feel that way(Henchy and SEPH are two I know have felt that way since his draft year).

And by the way, you can find all kinds of players who entered the league and basically peaked within those first 1-2 years in the league, without ever taking significant strides upwards. Clayton Keller scored 65 points as a rookie and has never scored higher since. Oliver Ekman-Larsson basically entered the league as a Top 4Dman basically right away, but never really saw significant development in his game. Patrik Laine scored 44 Goals and 70 points in his sophomore season and hasn't hit those totals since. Rasmus Ristolainen entered the league as a Top 4 guy and pretty much after his sophomore season has regressed ever year since.

You can honestly pick any single draft, go through the Top 10 players and find multiple guys that peaked within the first year or two in the league. It's not at all uncommon and especially when Byram has already established himself as a solid #2/3 guy, it isn't even an insult. That's a damn good and valuable Dman. Outside of finding more consistency in his game to play at that level for a full 82 game schedule, he doesn't have much room left to even grow. Especially not on a Colorado team where he's simply never going to be the PP1 QB with Cale Makar running the show.

 

[sethro109]

- Byram will win the Norris next year,
- Mackinnon will win the Hart and Art Ross when he's 30
- The Avs will win the next 4 cups in a row! They're literally the greatest team to ever exist in all of sports! They will buck all the trends in history and completely defy the odds!

You're gonna feel really silly when all of this actually happens.

 

[MacKaRtin]

They would take some of each others votes so unless they were lapping the field it's likely to end up with neither of them winning.

Pretty amusing some of these hot takes about if Byram is a 1D or not. Kind of like the comments about who is a 2C and who is not. Its all situational dependent. Next season Byram could be 1D quality on maybe 10-15 teams in the league. So does that make him a 1D in some posters minds? And its guaranteed the Avs will have a 2C to start the season. It is whoever lines up in that role come opening night.

JT Compher will always be a 2C in my heart.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

On the Mackinnon part just to add.... Look at the players who have signed $10M+ contracts that go into a players 30+ year ages, how many of them are actually fair value deals, let alone steals?

Here's the list of guys who are 30+, making $10M+ for next season:

John Tavares
Erik Karlsson
Patrik Kane
Jonathan Toews
Carey Price
Drew Doughty
Sergei Bobrovsky
Anze Kopitar
Artemi Panarin


And sitting just 150k below that $10M mark is 30 year old Tyler Seguin.

So 10 guys that are 30+ making $9.85M or more... The only guy who is a legitimate steal of a contract still in that entire group, is Patrick Kane. Half of those contracts are flat out albatross contracts. In the case of Bobrovsky, Toews, Price, Karlsson, and Seguin they are complete team killers. Then in the case of Tavares and Doughty, and Kopitar, you've got 3 guys that are still effective players, but its petty questionable about whether they're truly worth $11M in Tavares/Doughty's case or $10M in Kopitars case. And all 3 of those guys still have 3+ years on those deals.


Mackinnon's contract will look no better when he's 31/32 either. In fact, its legitimately possible his looks even worse. Mackinnon has long been a player that has relied on his physical tools, his skating, his speed, his size, etc. to be the best player he can be, he's never been a top notch hockey IQ guy. Well, speed is probably the skill that gets hit the hardest as players get older.


We all know that stat about only one player in NHL history with a cap hit of over $10M ever making the cup finals(Price in 2021) and nobody with a $10M cap hit ever winning the cup. That's a stat for a reason, More then half the guys in the league making that $10M+ are doing so in the downswing of there careers, so not only is it incredibly difficult to build around 10M+ players in a cap world, but doing so around guys who's best years are already behind them is an impossible task.

You're gonna feel really silly when all of this actually happens.

I would feel great. The Avs winning 5 cups in a row would be completely absurd. I would love to dead wrong about our future and to see us become the greatest sports franchise ever. Who wouldn't love that(Well besides Oilers fans).

 

[MacKaRtin]

My entire point is that poster is literally nothing more then a homer troll and an embarrassing poster, so I made a post just like him completely exaggerating his stances. He brought the immaturity in me but I had to make the point on the little rat.

While I agree with the take on MacKinnon's next contract, I don't think it's productive to discussion to call another poster "embarrassing" or a "little rat." We all love hockey and all love the Avs, and we can differ in our opinions and depth of knowledge without insulting others or deciding to die on the hill of defending our position.

 

[ANewHope]

That's my point. He's making shit up and/or taking things completely out of context.


- Mackinnon's best years are almost certainly behind him already, but that doesn't mean he's not going to have good years ahead still. He's going to be 27 this year, and 28 when his next contract begins which will be for 8 years and probably in the neighborhood of $12M a year. You would honestly have to be wearing some rose tinted glasses to seriously think a 32 year old Nathan Mackinnon making $12M is going to be some steal of a contract. It's a contract that will get worse as ever year goes by. Just like Landeskog's, just like eventually Nichushkins.


- Byram already peaking is taken completely out of context but I also stand by what I said. In his sophomore year(This year, people forget last year was his rookie year and he developed quite a bit from last year to this year) he's basically already established himself as a high end #2/3 level Dman. It's not unreasonable at all to think he doesn't develop much further then that, especially if you're in the camp that doesn't think he has #1D upside, and there's certainly more then just me who feel that way(Henchy and SEPH are two I know have felt that way since his draft year).

And by the way, you can find all kinds of players who entered the league and basically peaked within those first 1-2 years in the league, without ever taking significant strides upwards. Clayton Keller scored 65 points as a rookie and has never scored higher since. Oliver Ekman-Larsson basically entered the league as a Top 4Dman basically right away, but never really saw significant development in his game. Patrik Laine scored 44 Goals and 70 points in his sophomore season and hasn't hit those totals since. Rasmus Ristolainen entered the league as a Top 4 guy and pretty much after his sophomore season has regressed ever year since.

You can honestly pick any single draft, go through the Top 10 players and find multiple guys that peaked within the first year or two in the league. It's not at all uncommon and especially when Byram has already established himself as a solid #2/3 guy, it isn't even an insult. That's a damn good and valuable Dman. Outside of finding more consistency in his game to play at that level for a full 82 game schedule, he doesn't have much room left to even grow. Especially not on a Colorado team where he's simply never going to be the PP1 QB with Cale Makar running the show.



My entire point is that poster is literally nothing more then a homer troll and an embarrassing poster, so I made a post just like him completely exaggerating his stances. He brought the immaturity in me but I had to make the point on the little rat.

Yeah I don't look at usernames all the time so wasn't aware it was something like that lol makes more sense now.

I agree with the MacKinnon contract not being a steal/potentially bad. My only point was that it's entirely possible he's still a really good player. It happens all the time. Stamkos had a monster year at 32. Even someone like Duchene at 31 had a big time season. It's not a fact that MacKinnon will age every year and fall off. He could have a brutal season at 30 than a bounce back year at 31. Averages exist for sure but they get beat all the time.

As for Byram he has 70 NHL games under his belt. Not to mention he's never played PP1 like you mentioned. That alone will give him a huge point boost and at same point weather it's with Colorado next to Makar or another team he's going to be getting PP1 minutes IMO. It's certainly possible he's peaked. Just very unlikely. Certainly some comparisons exist. I think OEL for example peaked in his 5th/6th year. Keller is a good example all tho I'd be curious to see him outside of Arizona. I had mentioned a few. It certainly happens. I'd argue Byram with the concussion issues is different than those guys tho. I think he'll get improvement from simply stringing together 40-50 games assuming he can stay healthy which is the big question.

 

[John Mandalorian]

On the Mackinnon part just to add.... Look at the players who have signed $10M+ contracts that go into a players 30+ year ages, how many of them are actually fair value deals, let alone steals?

Here's the list of guys who are 30+, making $10M+ for next season:

John Tavares
Erik Karlsson
Patrik Kane
Jonathan Toews
Carey Price
Drew Doughty
Sergei Bobrovsky
Anze Kopitar
Artemi Panarin


And sitting just 150k below that $10M mark is 30 year old Tyler Seguin.

So 10 guys that are 30+ making $9.85M or more... The only guy who is a legitimate steal of a contract still in that entire group, is Patrick Kane. Half of those contracts are flat out albatross contracts. In the case of Bobrovsky, Toews, Price, Karlsson, and Seguin they are complete team killers. Then in the case of Tavares and Doughty, and Kopitar, you've got 3 guys that are still effective players, but its petty questionable about whether they're truly worth $11M in Tavares/Doughty's case or $10M in Kopitars case. And all 3 of those guys still have 3+ years on those deals.


Mackinnon's contract will look no better when he's 31/32 either. In fact, its legitimately possible his looks even worse. Mackinnon has long been a player that has relied on his physical tools, his skating, his speed, his size, etc. to be the best player he can be, he's never been a top notch hockey IQ guy. Well, speed is probably the skill that gets hit the hardest as players get older.



I would feel great. The Avs winning 5 cups in a row would be completely absurd. I would love to dead wrong about our future and to see us become the greatest sports franchise ever. Who wouldn't love that(Well besides Oilers fans).

Is the MacKinnon contract really a two-parter? Here's an idea. Get your thoughts together. Put them all in one post. Then let everyone ridicule them.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

While I agree with the take on MacKinnon's next contract, I don't think it's productive to discussion to call another poster "embarrassing" or a "little rat." We all love hockey and all love the Avs, and we can differ in our opinions and depth of knowledge without insulting others or deciding to die on the hill of defending our position.

That's fair. I removed that part. He's not even worth the acknowledgement quite frankly.

 

[John Mandalorian]

Deleted.

 

[ANewHope]

I'd be fine with MacKinnon's deal being like Kanes/Doughty's/Kopitar/Panarin assuming he can stay healthy and on the ice. Price carried Montreal to the finals but yeah outside of that it's been brutal. I think Tavares gets crushed by Toronto media. He plays behind Matthews and just had 76 points in 79 games at 31. EK had the injury issues that basically crushed his future.

Maybe not likely but I don't think it's impossible for MacKinnon to still be a low end 1C at 32. I think he takes care of his body and has a pretty great work ethic.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Yeah I don't look at usernames all the time so wasn't aware it was something like that lol makes more sense now.

I agree with the MacKinnon contract not being a steal/potentially bad. My only point was that it's entirely possible he's still a really good player. It happens all the time. Stamkos had a monster year at 32. Even someone like Duchene at 31 had a big time season. It's not a fact that MacKinnon will age every year and fall off. He could have a brutal season at 30 than a bounce back year at 31. Averages exist for sure but they get beat all the time.

As for Byram he has 70 NHL games under his belt. Not to mention he's never played PP1 like you mentioned. That alone will give him a huge point boost and at same point weather it's with Colorado next to Makar or another team he's going to be getting PP1 minutes IMO. It's certainly possible he's peaked. Just very unlikely. Certainly some comparisons exist. I think OEL for example peaked in his 5th/6th year. Keller is a good example all tho I'd be curious to see him outside of Arizona. I had mentioned a few. It certainly happens. I'd argue Byram with the concussion issues is different than those guys tho. I think he'll get improvement from simply stringing together 40-50 games assuming he can stay healthy which is the big question.

Production wise OEL peaked a little later, but he was a worse player at that point, his defensive game had regressed significantly.

But again, like I said you can go through any draft, look at the top 10, at the guys who are the most talented already and look at them as they enter the league. Every year you'll find multiple guys who peaked pretty much right away. That's not an insult to them in most cases, its the simple fact that these guys are already incredibly talented hence getting drafted so high, and a reasonable amount of the time they're already as good as they are ever going to be. Development isn't linear and especially for the guys at the top of the draft, a lot of the times they dont have much development left to them. Just simply refining and adding consistency to the players they already are.

I dont see anyway Byram gets sustained PP1 ice time honestly. Not with the Avs anyway. Unless they completely change the setup of the PP, he's not going to get that spot from Makar at this point. If anything I would argue Byram with the concussions makes him more susceptible to peaking early. He has missed some incredibly important develop time as a young kid. Combined with the covid seasons he's missed huge chunks of 2 full years of important hockey at a very important age for development.

 

[Avaholic29]

Oh look! He's making shit up again! What a surprise


guess I can play this game to.


- Byram will win the Norris next year,
- Mackinnon will win the Hart and Art Ross when he's 30
- The Avs will win the next 4 cups in a row! They're literally the greatest team to ever exist in all of sports! They will buck all the trends in history and completely defy the odds!



That's what it looks like when you are a completely delusional homer right?

Hahahaha all I’m saying is it’s a bit much to think Byram peaked before he’s even played 82 nhl games and that Mackinnon can’t produce like other elite 30 year old hockey players, is his style of play one that dies out at 30? This team is going to be good for longer than 3-4 years and it’s not being a homer to believe that. Heiskanen has rarely seen pp1 up to this point and was unbelievably valuable, Byram hasn’t peaked and with the projected cap increase mackinnons contract won’t look bad in his early 30s.

 

[EscapedGoat]

Byram isn’t in his mid twenties though and he has missed a lot of time with concussions.

O.....K?

At no point did I mention Byram in my post. I'm more than a little confused.