2022-2023 Blues Multi-Purpose Thread

[Linkens Mastery]

Our regularly scheduled Tank is back on

 

[bleedblue1223]

He lost a shutout for a skate blade issue, but also didn't have a loss count against him, so sort of balances out.

 

[Vladys Gumption]

Hofer reassigned to Springfield.
Hofer assigned to Springfield

Makes sense to have him there for the stretch run and AHL playoffs.

And Binny likely got the message that he needs to step it up if he wants to keep the net next season.

I had that thought too. As soon as they announced Hofer was staying up I thought it was meant to be a shot across the bow. It allowed them to kill two birds with one stone: send a message to Binny and reward Hofer for his play this year with a couple weeks of an NHL paycheck and some NHL starts.

 

[Brian39]

Points arent everything. ROR was basically a 55-60 pt center.

This is the first season since 2014/15 that ROR played below a 60 point pace. In that 7 year stretch of 60+ point pace seasons, he played at a 69+ point pace 4 times and a 75+ point pace twice (both with the Blues). He scored at a 67 point pace over his 327 games as a Blue.

ROR was not basically a 55-60 point center.

Time will tell. Dean has the skill, skating, shot, vision, tenacity and work ethic you want. Much more tenacity and work ethic than Thomas. Probably won’t be the playmaker that Thomas is, but will be a much better 2-way player. Probably a 25g 50-60pt 2-way center

Thomas has been praised for his work ethic since before he was drafted. I have never heard anyone in hockey question his work ethic. His tenacity on the forecheck and his two-way play were both considered strengths as a prospect and the comps during his draft year were guys like Horvat and Backlund.

Robert Thomas Scouting Report: 2017 NHL Draft #20

In centre Robert Thomas of the London Knights, there is another reason for NHL scouts to visit the John Labbatt Centre this season.

lastwordonsports.com

Robert Thomas - 2017 NHL Draft Prospect Profile - The Hockey Writers NHL Prospects Latest News, Analysis & More

London Knights' forward Robert Thomas should be a middle to late second round pick in the upcoming NHL Entry Draft in June.

thehockeywriters.com

I think it is very premature to start projecting Dean as a much better 2-way player than Thomas. The vast majority of prospects touted as strong defensively in junior wind up no better (or worse) than Thomas defensively at the NHL level. Thomas is pretty damn far from being a defensive liability. He's 8th among NHL forwards in takeaways and his possession numbers are the best of our top 6 forward group (or second behind Buch depending on what you're looking at). You don't get those without being some combination of tenacious, hardworking, and defensively sound. He hasn't blossomed into an elite defensive center (which almost no one does by 23), but his defensive play at the NHL level is above the baseline competency you expect out of a 23 year old who was praised for his 2 way play in junior.

To date, Dean has not demonstrated any tenacity or defensive ability that Thomas didn't demonstrate in junior and he's at least a year behind Thomas in getting to the NHL. I'd love for Dean to turn into a great shutdown player, but the reality is that the vast majority of guys with his skillset and reputation for defensive play in junior don't exceed what Thomas has developed into defensively. It is way, way, way premature to say that he is way above Thomas in these areas. The gap between being a premier two-way junior player and a good two-way NHL player is enormous.

 

[Brian39]

I was on vacation last week and missed basically all of the Hofer show. I liked what I saw of his game in highlights and last night didn't worry me in any meaningful way. Should have had the 3rd one, could have tracked a couple plays better, but for the most part was just completely hung out to dry by our team. His puckhandling already looks to be a ++ asset at the NHL level. That doesn't surprise me from what I saw in the AHL and preseason, but it is nice to see him remain calm in the face of NHL forechecking.

I'm happy to see him return to the AHL now. I want him fully in the groove for their playoffs. Binner's suspension forced our hand in calling him up, but that also meant that he got a legit starter's workload while he was up here. I wish I had gotten to watch more of his minutes, but other than the team collapsing around him last night, this was about as well as a call up could have gone.

Camp is going to be fun next year and I'm really looking forward to watching the crease battle unfold next season. The message has delivered (by Hofer's play and Berube's usage) that Binner shouldn't plan on starting 60+ games next year unless he plays like a Vezina candidate. If nothing else, we should have the best puckhandling tandem in the league next year. Next year's defensive system/structure can fully be build around active puckhandling no matter which goalie is in net.

 

[Mike Liut]

This is the first season since 2014/15 that ROR played below a 60 point pace. In that 7 year stretch of 60+ point pace seasons, he played at a 69+ point pace 4 times and a 75+ point pace twice (both with the Blues). He scored at a 67 point pace over his 327 games as a Blue.

ROR was not basically a 55-60 point center.


Thomas has been praised for his work ethic since before he was drafted. I have never heard anyone in hockey question his work ethic. His tenacity on the forecheck and his two-way play were both considered strengths as a prospect and the comps during his draft year were guys like Horvat and Backlund.

Robert Thomas Scouting Report: 2017 NHL Draft #20

In centre Robert Thomas of the London Knights, there is another reason for NHL scouts to visit the John Labbatt Centre this season.

lastwordonsports.com

Robert Thomas - 2017 NHL Draft Prospect Profile - The Hockey Writers NHL Prospects Latest News, Analysis & More

London Knights' forward Robert Thomas should be a middle to late second round pick in the upcoming NHL Entry Draft in June.

thehockeywriters.com

I think it is very premature to start projecting Dean as a much better 2-way player than Thomas. The vast majority of prospects touted as strong defensively in junior wind up no better (or worse) than Thomas defensively at the NHL level. Thomas is pretty damn far from being a defensive liability. He's 8th among NHL forwards in takeaways and his possession numbers are the best of our top 6 forward group (or second behind Buch depending on what you're looking at). You don't get those without being some combination of tenacious, hardworking, and defensively sound. He hasn't blossomed into an elite defensive center (which almost no one does by 23), but his defensive play at the NHL level is above the baseline competency you expect out of a 23 year old who was praised for his 2 way play in junior.

To date, Dean has not demonstrated any tenacity or defensive ability that Thomas didn't demonstrate in junior and he's at least a year behind Thomas in getting to the NHL. I'd love for Dean to turn into a great shutdown player, but the reality is that the vast majority of guys with his skillset and reputation for defensive play in junior don't exceed what Thomas has developed into defensively. It is way, way, way premature to say that he is way above Thomas in these areas. The gap between being a premier two-way junior player and a good two-way NHL player is enormous.

ROR has hit 70 once, 60 4x and 50 5x.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

ROR has hit 70 once, 60 4x and 50 5x.

Since he turned 22 RoR has been on pace for 60 points+ over an 82 game season every year except 2

 

[Mike Liut]

Since he turned 22 RoR has been on pace for 60 points+ over an 82 game season every year except 2

That’s why I said he’s basically a 55-60 pt player. I don’t really care if he doesn’t play 82 games.

 

[Brian39]

ROR has hit 70 once, 60 4x and 50 5x.

Weirdly enough, only two NHL players hit 70 points in 2020/21. Everyone must have sucked offensively that year. It definitely couldn't have had anything to do with some global event that shortened the regular season. ROR only hitting 54 points should definitely be held against him and we absolutely shouldn't look at the stats of this season in terms of points pace. He would have played more than 56 games if he had just wanted it more. Good call ignoring his 79 point pace that year in favor of classifying it as him only hitting the 50 point benchmark.

Huh, scoring was also down a bit the year before and his 71 games played was most in the league. I guess conditioning around the league took a nose dive and prevented everyone from playing a full 82 games. Too bad ROR couldn't buck the trend and play those last 11 games that definitely were played. Looking at this season as a 61 point season instead of acknowledging his 69 point pace is definitely smart.

All told, he missed 0 games and played at a .92 point per game clip in his first 3 seasons with the Blues. That's a 75 point pace over an 82 game season. I don't know what to tell you if you are going to ignore season length and count those as a 50 point, a 60 point, and a 70 point season in order to describe him as a 55-60 point guy.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

That’s why I said he’s basically a 55-60 pt player. I don’t really care if he doesn’t play 82 games.

That's a ridiculous way to think. And that's why Points Per Game is a better stat than Total points. Especially in shortened seasons. You're straight up penalizing a players production because he didn't play a full season (or you know f***ing covid)

"Oh I don't care if he only played 56 games, he only scored 54 points so he's a 54 point player"

 

[Mike Liut]

That's a ridiculous way to think. And that's why Points Per Game is a better stat than Total points. Especially in shortened seasons. You're straight up penalizing a players production because he didn't play a full season (or you know f***ing covid)

"Oh I don't care if he only played 56 games, he only scored 54 points so he's a 54 point player"

I don’t prorate players. The stats are the stats.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

I don’t prorate players. The stats are the stats.

RoR is a 60-70 point player over a full 82 game NHL season and has been since he turned 22 outside of this season and his age 23 season. Calling him a 55 point player because of shortened seasons is disingenuous and reeks of nothing but "things are like this just because I say so"

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

I don’t prorate players. The stats are the stats.

If he was like Chycrun and always hurt, maybe. But to punish him for pandemic is rather disingenuous.

 

[Mike Liut]

If he was like Chycrun and always hurt, maybe. But to punish him for pandemic is rather disingenuous.

What’s his excuse prior to the pandemic? 61, 55,60, 55. Looks like a 55-60 pt player to me.

Calling a player a 70 pt player when he’s hit it once in his career is kind of silly if you ask me.

 

[DoubleK81]

What’s his excuse prior to the pandemic? 61, 55,60, 55. Looks like a 55-60 pt player to me.

Calling a player a 70 pt player when he’s hit it once in his career is kind of silly if you ask me.

Its the same reasoning people use when they say Tarasenko is a 40 goal scorer.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

What’s his excuse prior to the pandemic? 61, 55,60, 55. Looks like a 55-60 pt player to me.

Calling a player a 70 pt player when he’s hit it once in his career is kind of silly if you ask me.

<Lockout season>
20 points in 29 games-57 point pace 21 year old
<Full 82 Game Seasons>
64 points in 80 games-65 point pace 22 year old
55 points in 82 games-55 point pace 23 year old
60 points in 71 games-70 point pace 24 year old
55 points in 72 games-62 point pace 25 year old
61 points in 81 games-61 point pace 26 year old
77 points in 82 games-77 point pace 27 year old
<COVID SHORTENED SEASONS>
61 points in 71 games-70 point pace 28 year old
54 points in 56 games-80 point pace 29 year old
<end of shortened seasons>
58 points in 78 games-61 point pace 30 year old

He's much closer to a 60-70 point player than he is a 55-60 point player since turning 22.

Only 3 of those seasons did he miss any significant time compared to the rest of the league (10+ games during his 21, 24, and 25 YO seasons)

But yes, I know. You don't care about pace. Because you think a player should be able to put up the same amount of points in a season where there was only 56 games as a season where there are 82 games.

 

[Brian39]

What’s his excuse prior to the pandemic? 61, 55,60, 55. Looks like a 55-60 pt player to me.

"If you ignore the 77 point season immediately before the pandemic, focus on 4 years, and then also ignore the 64 point season he had before those 4 years, then the stats show that he looks like a 55-60 point guy!"

In the 6 seasons full seasons between the 2013 lockout and the pandemic-shortened 2019/20 season he exceeded your 60 point ceiling 3 times (and hit the ceiling on the nose another time). His average output was 62 points per season. Your range sucks when a player exceeds the ceiling 50% of the time and never falls below the floor.

He also topped your 60 point threshold in the COVID-shortened 2019/20 season when he played 71 games. So in the 7 seasons between the 48 game lockout season and the 56 game COVID season, he exceeded your ceiling more often than not.

If you just want to talk about pre-Blues ROR, I think it would be fair to call him a 55-65 point guy. He averaged 59 points a season, his median season was 60 points, and that ceiling is just 1 point ahead of his high of 64 points. That's much more accurate than a 55-60 point range and I think appropriately weights any 'well he missed 10 games here and 11 games there' concerns.

I don't really see the value in ignoring his 300+ games as a Blue on a Blues forum and I didn't get any sense from your post that you were trying to say that ROR used to be a 55-60 point guy before he came here and got much better.

Calling a player a 70 pt player when he’s hit it once in his career is kind of silly if you ask me.

No one here did that. There is a large amount of area between being a 55-60 point player and being a 70 point player. In fact, that is pretty much exactly how I would describe him. Through his prime, I'd call him a 60-70 point guy.

In the 9 years between his age 22 and 30 seasons, he was in that range 4 times. He exceeded it once (77 points) and was below it 4 times. However, one of those 4 times was the 56 game COVID year where his 54 points was good for 19th in the league. He was on pace for 79 points and I don't see any argument for not lumping that season into the 'over' category since he didn't miss a single game and was on pace to go well over the 70 point threshold. This season is going to destroy every future 'what kind of player is he' range if we don't account for the fact that the entire league only played two thirds of a season. Of the 3 remaining 'under' seasons, he was on pace for 60+ points twice but missed 4 and 10 games with injury.

Over these 9 seasons, he played at a 66.4 point pace (over 82 games) and he only missed 27 total games in that stretch (which averages out to 3 games a year).

I'd have no problem calling him a 55-70 point guy, but I think that the circumstances surrounding his sub-60 point seasons warrants boosting the floor to 60. To me, the lone 55 point season where he played 75+ games is as much of an outlier as the 77 point year. A 55 point season through 72 games and a 58 point season through 58 games don't sway me to move the entire range down by 5 points.

 

[STL fan in MN]

Looks like unless this investigation is wrapped up within the next month or so, both Thomas and Kyrou will be ineligible to play for Canada at the WC.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

Looks like unless this investigation is wrapped up within the next month or so, both Thomas and Kyrou will be ineligible to play for Canada at the WC.

I'm kinda surprised Kyrou wouldn't be allowed to play since he was not at the Gala and was in a whole different country at the time.

 

[bleedblue1223]

I think it's just a reaction to how bad Hockey Canada has handled some situations, so now they will go over and beyond to ensure there isn't an appearance of an issue.

 

[STL fan in MN]

I'm kinda surprised Kyrou wouldn't be allowed to play since he was not at the Gala and was in a whole different country at the time.

I get it but if they start declaring some guys as innocent then others will be assumed guilty because they haven’t been declared innocent yet.

That said, this has been dragging on for a long time. I’d like to see charges brought so the guys responsible can be held accountable and the innocent guys can move on.

 

[The Note]

I'm kinda surprised Kyrou wouldn't be allowed to play since he was not at the Gala and was in a whole different country at the time.

Yeah, but at the same time I do get it. Hockey Canada isn't exactly dealing with an abundance of goodwill right now and not opening the door to exceptions makes sense. Hopefully the investigation is wrapped up soon, though, and the responsible guys face consequences.

 

[Brian39]

I'm kinda surprised Kyrou wouldn't be allowed to play since he was not at the Gala and was in a whole different country at the time.

According to his statement. The investigation hasn't publicly exonerated him of anything. I have no reason to doubt his statement and I'd be genuinely stunned if it was untrue. But a good investigation doesn't simply receive an alibi, cross that person off the list, declare them innocent, and move on. It examines the statements of as many involved parties as possible, requests/demands documentation to back up claims, independently gathers evidence, and then starts to reach conclusions. Trust but verify.

Here is the nightmare scenario for Hockey Canada: they verify that he was in fact in a different country, publicly clear him of wrongdoing and let him play. During the tournament, their investigation reveals that a member of the team who was present filmed the whole thing, sent it to Kyrou, Kyrou laughed, encouraged him to 'jump in there' and that was the push that player needed to actively participate in the assault. Suddenly Kyrou is pretty far from exonerated and now Hockey Canada has to either remove him from the tournament or risk the PR nightmare if it comes out that they learned this info and then let him continue playing.

Again, I have zero reason to believe that Kyrou took part in any wrongdoing here. Especially since Army is extremely plugged in to Hockey Canada and was comfortable extending him. The above is a very, very hypothetical example and I am in no way suggesting that it is true.

But that is why you complete your investigation before any player with a tangible tie to the team/incident/investigation wears the Team Canada sweater again. I realize that the investigation has been going on for a long time, but good investigations take time. None of these players are going in for interviews without a good lawyer and no good lawyer is letting their client go in to that kind of interview unprepped. And no decent investigator is just scheduling interviews with anyone and everyone as quick as possible. Being thorough is better than doing it quickly.

 

[BrokenFace]

I'm kinda surprised Kyrou wouldn't be allowed to play since he was not at the Gala and was in a whole different country at the time.

I thought it was Thomas who was in a different country. Clearly I remembered that wrong.

Not that I want to open up an ugly, rumor-filled conversation, but isn't there reason to believe both Thomas and Kyrou weren't involved in the incident? Obviously Kyrou wasn't in the country, but I thought it came out that neither of them were likely involved. Maybe my memory is just biased though.

 

[bleedblue1223]

I thought it was Thomas who was in a different country. Clearly I remembered that wrong.

Not that I want to open up an ugly, rumor-filled conversation, but isn't there reason to believe both Thomas and Kyrou weren't involved in the incident? Obviously Kyrou wasn't in the country, but I thought it came out that neither of them were likely involved. Maybe my memory is just biased though.

Neither of them were at the event, so we can safely assume that they were not in the group that physically committed the act, but as @Brian39 said, that doesn't mean they are 100% innocent of any wrongdoing. They could have been involved in group chats during or about the incident.