2022-2023 Blues Multi-Purpose Thread

[Brian39]

I thought it was Thomas who was in a different country. Clearly I remembered that wrong.

Not that I want to open up an ugly, rumor-filled conversation, but isn't there reason to believe both Thomas and Kyrou weren't involved in the incident? Obviously Kyrou wasn't in the country, but I thought it came out that neither of them were likely involved. Maybe my memory is just biased though.

The only public info we have available was provided by the players. A number of players from the team issued statements that were some version of 'I wasn't present/involved/aware and I will cooperate with any investigation.' None took questions or made any further public comment. There was some internet sleuthing and investigative pieces written in response to those, but I have no clue how reliable those are.

How much weight you want to give these statements is up to you. I find them at least somewhat valuable, because lying in such a statement would give the teams and/or the NHL a clearer path for discipline that would cost a lying player enormous amounts of money. However, they are self-serving statements that need to be viewed as such. All of them were crafted with the help of at least one lawyer and likely several. All of them leave room for at least some possibility of poor behavior without the statement being factually untrue.

 

[Xerloris]

According to his statement. The investigation hasn't publicly exonerated him of anything. I have no reason to doubt his statement and I'd be genuinely stunned if it was untrue. But a good investigation doesn't simply receive an alibi, cross that person off the list, declare them innocent, and move on. It examines the statements of as many involved parties as possible, requests/demands documentation to back up claims, independently gathers evidence, and then starts to reach conclusions. Trust but verify.

Here is the nightmare scenario for Hockey Canada: they verify that he was in fact in a different country, publicly clear him of wrongdoing and let him play. During the tournament, their investigation reveals that a member of the team who was present filmed the whole thing, sent it to Kyrou, Kyrou laughed, encouraged him to 'jump in there' and that was the push that player needed to actively participate in the assault. Suddenly Kyrou is pretty far from exonerated and now Hockey Canada has to either remove him from the tournament or risk the PR nightmare if it comes out that they learned this info and then let him continue playing.

Again, I have zero reason to believe that Kyrou took part in any wrongdoing here. Especially since Army is extremely plugged in to Hockey Canada and was comfortable extending him. The above is a very, very hypothetical example and I am in no way suggesting that it is true.

But that is why you complete your investigation before any player with a tangible tie to the team/incident/investigation wears the Team Canada sweater again. I realize that the investigation has been going on for a long time, but good investigations take time. None of these players are going in for interviews without a good lawyer and no good lawyer is letting their client go in to that kind of interview unprepped. And no decent investigator is just scheduling interviews with anyone and everyone as quick as possible. Being thorough is better than doing it quickly.

It's a pretty easy to verify alibi. You have to go through airports and customs going to and from a country sooooo.

The only public info we have available was provided by the players. A number of players from the team issued statements that were some version of 'I wasn't present/involved/aware and I will cooperate with any investigation.' None took questions or made any further public comment. There was some internet sleuthing and investigative pieces written in response to those, but I have no clue how reliable those are.

How much weight you want to give these statements is up to you. I find them at least somewhat valuable, because lying in such a statement would give the teams and/or the NHL a clearer path for discipline that would cost a lying player enormous amounts of money. However, they are self-serving statements that need to be viewed as such. All of them were crafted with the help of at least one lawyer and likely several. All of them leave room for at least some possibility of poor behavior without the statement being factually untrue.

Ya man because someone that would rape a girl is most definitely concerned about lying.

 

[tfriede2]

Neither of them were at the event, so we can safely assume that they were not in the group that physically committed the act, but as @Brian39 said, that doesn't mean they are 100% innocent of any wrongdoing. They could have been involved in group chats during or about the incident.

I’m pretty sure Thomas was at the gala event, but he’s publicly stated that he wasn’t involved in what happened after said event.

 

[taylord22]

Thomas was at the Gala, but his statement was interesting because he explicitly stated that he was not involved, nor was he 'witness' to anything happening in the hotel room.

These are crafted statements by people/reps paid to live in the realm of minutia, so correctly/incorrectly, I take some meaning.

 

[Brian39]

It's a pretty easy to verify alibi. You have to go through airports and customs going to and from a country sooooo.

I never said it was difficult. It does require requesting documents. And since Hockey Canada is not a law enforcement agency, government agency, or judicial body with subpoena power that means most of these requests rely on cooperation from the subject and take time to process. A non-profit organization conducting an investigation isn't quickly getting customs information about a person that tells them 'No, I'm not showing you my passport or signing any releases for you.'

At this point, it is probably worth noting that Kyrou's statement didn't say he was in another country. He said that he wasn't in London, Ontario. I believe it was a random person online who deduced that he was in another country based on social media.

Ya man because someone that would rape a girl is most definitely concerned about lying.

Again, I never said otherwise. The act of lying could cost these players substantially more money than saying nothing if the investigation reveals wrongdoing. IF it is revealed that Kyrou/Thomas lied in their statement, The Blues have a very good argument to terminate the contracts over it. They could argue that the players misrepresented a material element of their character and that the team relied on that misrepresentation when offering the contract. That is a much stronger argument than if the contracts had been given to a player who said nothing while an investigation was pending.

Lying could cost a guilty athlete lots of money. Pro athletes care about their money.

 

[Snubbed4Vezina]

I find it hard to believe that Doug Armstrong, with his connections as Canada's favorite GM, would've handed out those extensions if he believed there was an ounce of possibility that Thomas and Kyrou were at all involved in this disgusting incident.

Kyrou and Thomas became the faces of the Blues franchise that day and it would reflect very poorly on Army if he hadn't done his due diligence to make sure they weren't involved.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

I find it hard to believe that Doug Armstrong, with his connections as Canada's favorite GM, would've handed out those extensions if he believed there was an ounce of possibility that Thomas and Kyrou were at all involved in this disgusting incident.

Kyrou and Thomas became the faces of the Blues franchise that day and it would reflect very poorly on Army if he hadn't done his due diligence to make sure they weren't involved.

I agree with this, but I also think it’s not possible for Armstrong to know the truth of this beyond all doubt. If it turns out that one or both of them had some kind of role, I would not judge Armstrong for that. I’d judge by his response.

It’s an ugly incident, and it’s not ideal for any involved party that it’s such a public case now.

 

[Brian39]

I want to emphasize that I don't have any reason to believe that Thomas or Kyrou were involved. I'm not expecting anything horrible to come out about them and I do think that Army's position in Hockey Canada means that he would have heard 'off the record' if the investigation was starting to point toward them.

People do terrible things and I'd never wager anything meaningful about the true character of any public figure. The public is presented with a pretty carefully crafted version of athletes/performers so it's not wise to stake your own reputation onto their character. Anyone who appears on your TV could turn out to be a deplorable person. I haven't seen anything to suggest that Kyrou or Thomas is more likely to fit that description than anyone else in the league.

The intention of my comments was just to discuss the risk management that Hockey Canada is doing by holding all these guys out. We have no clue what their investigation is pointing to right now and we certainly haven't seen any public exonerations. A blanket ineligibility decision for the entire team is the safe move and the best way to avoid a public guessing game and/or having a rapist wear your organization's jersey.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

In other words, we are, most likely, never going to know who did the deed.

 

[Xerloris]

In other words, we are, most likely, never going to know who did the deed.

Thought the police had a video of it?

 

[ChicagoBlues]

Thought the police had a video of it?

WE will never know.

 

[Majorityof1]

I find it hard to believe that Doug Armstrong, with his connections as Canada's favorite GM, would've handed out those extensions if he believed there was an ounce of possibility that Thomas and Kyrou were at all involved in this disgusting incident.

Kyrou and Thomas became the faces of the Blues franchise that day and it would reflect very poorly on Army if he hadn't done his due diligence to make sure they weren't involved.

I find it very hard to believe that an NHL GM would give a damn how many laws a star player broke or how many lives they ruined, if they could sign that player to a good, long contract with little chance the players mideeds would ever be proven. That's how this shit got to the point it got to. Can the player help my team? Ok then, sweep it all under the rug.

We all think, oh our guy wouldn't do that. The Blackhawks fans probably thought the same about their team's leadership befopre that rape case. Penn state fans probably thought Paterno would never let a rapist coach for him, until it came to light that he did.

Maybe Army is a stand-up moral, salt of the earth guy who would never sign someone he knew was guilty of a heinous act. But I wouldn't bet on it. That is not an indictment of Armstrong. Its just that a not insubstantial percentage of people are just awful, awful human beings when they think they won't be caught, and more so those who rose to positions of power.

 

[542365]

I find it very hard to believe that an NHL GM would give a damn how many laws a star player broke or how many lives they ruined, if they could sign that player to a good, long contract with little chance the players mideeds would ever be proven. That's how this shit got to the point it got to. Can the player help my team? Ok then, sweep it all under the rug.

We all think, oh our guy wouldn't do that. The Blackhawks fans probably thought the same about their team's leadership befopre that rape case. Penn state fans probably thought Paterno would never let a rapist coach for him, until it came to light that he did.

Maybe Army is a stand-up moral, salt of the earth guy who would never sign someone he knew was guilty of a heinous act. But I wouldn't bet on it. That is not an indictment of Armstrong. Its just that a not insubstantial percentage of people are just awful, awful human beings when they think they won't be caught, and more so those who rose to positions of power.

If it came out either of our guys was involved and Army knew about it before signing those contracts, he would be immediately fired and unlikely to find a job in the NHL again. I don’t believe for a second that he would put his reputation and career on the line for them. It would be different if they were McDavid/Matthews level players, but they’re obviously not. I think it’s safe to assume Army has pretty extensive knowledge of the investigation and that it doesn’t involve either Kyrou or Thomas.

 

[STL fan in MN]

If it came out either of our guys was involved and Army knew about it before signing those contracts, he would be immediately fired and unlikely to find a job in the NHL again. I don’t believe for a second that he would put his reputation and career on the line for them. It would be different if they were McDavid/Matthews level players, but they’re obviously not. I think it’s safe to assume Army has pretty extensive knowledge of the investigation and that it doesn’t involve either Kyrou or Thomas.

I’d agree. And there’s also very likely to be some sort of moral clause in the contracts that would give him an out if a player did some truly heinous.

 

[Renard]

Time to give Armstrong some credit. Buch is our best forward. But his acquisition is old news.

In current news, Blais, Vrana and Kappy are all making signifcant contributions at low cost. I'm happy we now don't look like an AHL team.

 

[STL fan in MN]

Time to give Armstrong some credit. Buch is our best forward. But his acquisition is old news.

In current news, Blais, Vrana and Kappy are all making signifcant contributions at low cost. I'm happy we now don't look like an AHL team.

Yeah, all 3 of those guys have looked quite good since becoming Blues.

Here’s a look at how they’re doing vs the pace the pending UFAs we traded away we’re doing.

Blais - 17 pts in 23 games: .739 pts/game
Kapanen - 11 pts in 15 games: .733 pts/game
Vrana - 10 pts in 12 games: .833 pts/game

Tarasenko - 29 pts in 38 games: .763 pts/game
ROR - 19 pts in 40 games: .475 pts/game
Barbashev - 29 pts in 59 games: .492 pts/game
Acciari - 18 pts in 54 games: .333 pts/game
Mikkola - 3 pts in 50 games: .060 pts/game

Points aren’t everything but those 3 are killing it! And while that’s good in many regards, they’re also killing our tank!

They’ve gone 7-3-1 in their last 11. Who saw that coming? I certainly didn’t. Especially after the implosion the last time we played Vancouver in late Feb. and Berube accused the players of quitting.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Now, Blais is certainly on an unsustainable hot streak, but it would be something if he just magically fits with Buchnevich and has more consistent offensive production that I always thought he could have. If Buchnevich can work on his faceoffs in the summer, he has the makings to be ROR in that he can take whatever wingers are available, and make them produce solid numbers.

If those 3 can stay somewhat productive, we should have a pretty solid forward group next season.

 

[STL fan in MN]

This probably happened days ago but I just now noticed looking at the standings - the Rangers clinched a playoff berth so that thing that was 99% going to happen, happened - the 2024 pick the Blues will get from the Rangers will be a 3rd, not a 4th.

 

[Mike Liut]

Kap is a good player. Vrana is a really good player. I hope we keep both. Not sure there’s room for Kap with Snuggs and Bolduc not too far away.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

Kap is a good player. Vrana is a really good player. I hope we keep both. Not sure there’s room for Kap with Snuggs and Bolduc not too far away.

Kappy? Maybe not. But he's definitely good to have next year for the 3#rw

 

[BadgersandBlues]

A couple of thoughts bouncing through my head over the last 3ish weeks:

Blais has been a revelation since returning. I have no clue if it's sustainable, but he's so much more calm with the puck then say, Kyrou. He reminds me A LOT of the style we played in 2019, where we didn't panic, we held onto pucks, and we worked the other team into bad spots to generate quality chances. Add in his physical style and he's been an absolute joy to watch these last couple of (knowingly useless) weeks.

I think the acquisitions of Kap and Vrana (and Blais) has cracked open the door for some hope next year. I'm not under any illusion that we're a "real" contender, but this team has looked MILES better since we acquired those three, especially Kap and Vrana. I don't think playoffs are too big a stretch.

I think our offense has figured itself out and we have a lot of reasons for optimism. Looking at forwards only, here's my reasonable expectations:

30 goal guys:

Buch
Kyrou
Vrana (With both Kyrou and Vrana potentially pushing towards 40 if they stay healthy and have good years)

20 goal guys:

Saad
Thomas
Schenn
Kapenen

Then you have guys like Blais and Neighbors would could hit around 15 (Maybe more for Blais if this stretch isn't a mirage).

That's 200 goals from your top 9 (Potentially, obviously we won't have this exactly due to health and natural influences)....but the fact that we have 200 goal potential from our top 9 is pretty solid when you look around the league. I think Toro could also pop 10 if he continues to mature this off-season and works on his puck skills.

Ofc, this goes without saying that the D is still a wreck. It's really frustrating too, b/c I've been thinking more about it since Scandella came back and we moved Krug down to play with him. With a couple of tweaks this D could actually be....good. Like, really good. Imagine a scenario where one of Faulk or Parayko is left handed and we could play the two of them together. A second pairing of Faulk/Parayko would be a matchup nightmare for most teams. Leddy fills the old Gunnarson/Edmundson role as a "top-4" guy who's really there to not mess it up next to our true #1 guy. Then you have a "specialist" third pairing, Krug and Scandella - one is our top PP d-man, the other is our top PK d-man. They get sheltered 5v5 minutes together for 90% of the game, but we split them up situationally to exploit matchups - Krug gets offensive zone starts late in games we're losing with a better partner and Scandella gets defensive zone starts with Parayko late in games where we have a lead. We did this to great effect with Dunn.

Now all we need is a true #1 (preferably RH) and for one of Faulk/Parayko to switch handedness. No biggie. I jest, but it does go to show that not all hope is lost with our D - if we can make some savvy moves and flip say Faulk for a LH version of Faulk, or Parayko for a LH version of Parayko, we might be in business faster then any of us think.....so long as we find that true #1 RH D man....anyone know where we could find one of those? I think we had one around here one time, maybe he's hiding in the couch cushions again

Cheers.

 

[Reality Czech]

A couple of thoughts bouncing through my head over the last 3ish weeks:

Blais has been a revelation since returning. I have no clue if it's sustainable, but he's so much more calm with the puck then say, Kyrou. He reminds me A LOT of the style we played in 2019, where we didn't panic, we held onto pucks, and we worked the other team into bad spots to generate quality chances. Add in his physical style and he's been an absolute joy to watch these last couple of (knowingly useless) weeks.

I think the acquisitions of Kap and Vrana (and Blais) has cracked open the door for some hope next year. I'm not under any illusion that we're a "real" contender, but this team has looked MILES better since we acquired those three, especially Kap and Vrana. I don't think playoffs are too big a stretch.

I think our offense has figured itself out and we have a lot of reasons for optimism. Looking at forwards only, here's my reasonable expectations:

30 goal guys:

Buch
Kyrou
Vrana (With both Kyrou and Vrana potentially pushing towards 40 if they stay healthy and have good years)

20 goal guys:

Saad
Thomas
Schenn
Kapenen

Then you have guys like Blais and Neighbors would could hit around 15 (Maybe more for Blais if this stretch isn't a mirage).

That's 200 goals from your top 9 (Potentially, obviously we won't have this exactly due to health and natural influences)....but the fact that we have 200 goal potential from our top 9 is pretty solid when you look around the league. I think Toro could also pop 10 if he continues to mature this off-season and works on his puck skills.

Ofc, this goes without saying that the D is still a wreck. It's really frustrating too, b/c I've been thinking more about it since Scandella came back and we moved Krug down to play with him. With a couple of tweaks this D could actually be....good. Like, really good. Imagine a scenario where one of Faulk or Parayko is left handed and we could play the two of them together. A second pairing of Faulk/Parayko would be a matchup nightmare for most teams. Leddy fills the old Gunnarson/Edmundson role as a "top-4" guy who's really there to not mess it up next to our true #1 guy. Then you have a "specialist" third pairing, Krug and Scandella - one is our top PP d-man, the other is our top PK d-man. They get sheltered 5v5 minutes together for 90% of the game, but we split them up situationally to exploit matchups - Krug gets offensive zone starts late in games we're losing with a better partner and Scandella gets defensive zone starts with Parayko late in games where we have a lead. We did this to great effect with Dunn.

Now all we need is a true #1 (preferably RH) and for one of Faulk/Parayko to switch handedness. No biggie. I jest, but it does go to show that not all hope is lost with our D - if we can make some savvy moves and flip say Faulk for a LH version of Faulk, or Parayko for a LH version of Parayko, we might be in business faster then any of us think.....so long as we find that true #1 RH D man....anyone know where we could find one of those? I think we had one around here one time, maybe he's hiding in the couch cushions again

Cheers.

Good post, I wouldn't disagree with any of it. I'm not sure it's realistic that we acquire an elite 1D this off-season but if we could find a solid RHD that can play against top competition then I don't think our D would look that bad. I love Bortz but he gets exploited at 5-on-5 too often. Someone like Mayfield would be nice but he might not fit into our budget.

We saw last year that Faulk and Krug can be solid together, but that only works if you've got two other pairs that can play heavy minutes. Leddy/Parayko are good together and a third pair of Scandella/Mayfield (or someone similar) would give you a very solid D-first third pair.

Of course a lot of it depends on how the team plays overall. If we control possession and can keep sustained pressure in the O zone, then that defense group would be adequate. If we get caved on possession and spend most of the game in our own zone, then we probably won't be a playoff team no matter who is playing defense.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Tank lines are back.

 

[bleedblue1223]

And Kap is the center on that line, not Blais.

 

[Brian39]

I was very much enjoying the extended look at Buch at center. Minus the faceoff ability, I've actually been pretty pleased with his play in the middle. Losing another 1.5 centers (after trading 2.5 centers) is such a ridiculous blow to the center depth. It should help the tank to have three wingers on the 2nd line and a 4th line center on the 3rd line, but it once again makes it really hard to evaluate anything with an eye toward the future.