2022-2023 Around The League

[ANewHope]

Sens should just bite the bullet at this point and collect another potential franchise player in the top 5 of a legendary draft

I want them to get Bedard. If any team deserves it it's them. All the talent that's left because of the previous ownership. They've drafted well. Actually made a really good attempt at being competitive this year. Plus it keeps him out of the West and makes the East that much more competitive.

I just hope none of the teams out West get one of these potential franchise C's. Especially St Louis/Vancouver. SJ/Arizona are such a mess it probably wouldn't matter.

 

[redacted]

I don't think Byram really compares to anybody. He was hurt most of last year and is hurt again but was great in the playoffs. Voynov was a big loss for the Kings .. but your leaving out how Muzzin broke out as a 25 year old the next season. Kings didn't lose anybody close to Kadri due to contracts/aging. I'd also argue guys like Toffoli stepping up, while Williams/Brown/Gaborik playing at similar levels plays a big factor. McNabb was also a really good addition.

Kings were still pretty good. Just disappointed.

I think you’re underrating Voynov… he was gonna be great defensemen. I haven’t underrated Muzzin either (or Martinez in all these debates over the months). Great players.

Richards and Kadri at their respective peaks were pretty close in levels. Richards in Philly and first year in LA was an absurdly good player. Didn’t always show up in the stat sheet, but amazing 2 way 2C. His body got beat down heavily and that last Cup run was all that was left in the tank. He was as good as Kadri last year in 2014… but his impact in his time with LA in their Cup runs was superior to Kadri’s here.

 

[dahrougem2]

I think you’re underrating Voynov… he was gonna be great defensemen. I haven’t underrated Muzzin either (or Martinez in all these debates over the months). Great players.

Richards and Kadri at their respective peaks were pretty close in levels. Richards in Philly and first year in LA was an absurdly good player. Didn’t always show up in the stat sheet, but amazing 2 way 2C. His body got beat down heavily and that last Cup run was all that was left in the tank. He was as good as Kadri last year in 2014… but his impact in his time with LA in their Cup runs was superior to Kadri’s here.

I don't know if I've ever seen anyone break down the way he did. It went 0-100 real quick with his decline following 2014.

 

[redacted]

I don't know if I've ever seen anyone break down the way he did. It went 0-100 real quick with his decline following 2014.

He laid it all on the line every shift as a small frame player. Just added up quick. Drugs didn’t help there either.

 

[ANewHope]

Richards and Kadri at their respective peaks were pretty close in levels.

Were not comparing there peaks tho? Were also not even discussing the postseason because the Kings didn't even make it that year so it's irrelevant. Kadri was on entirely different level last year than '13-14 Richards in the regular season. Richards also came back and while he was closed to finished he still gave them more than Kadri will give Colorado this season obviously.

 

[redacted]

Were not comparing there peaks tho? We’re also not even discussing the postseason because the Kings didn't even make it that year so it's irrelevant. Kadri was on entirely different level last year than '13-14 Richards in the regular season. Richards also came back and while he was closed to finished he still gave them more than Kadri will give Colorado this season obviously.

13-14 Richards certainly wasn’t Kadri last year. He gave it his all, but not Kadri level. Role wise… they were penciled for the same role (Richards really struggled and got swapped out of that role many times). He did come back, but as a replacement level 4th player. Basically like losing that player. Massive regression. On the flip Voynov contributed more than Byram.

As I’ve said many times, no two teams are directly comparable. General rules matter though. You can’t beat age. RFA value contracts are windows. You need something from an ELC. You need a 1C, 2C and 1D… really helps to have a game breaking wing. Average goaltending it a ok… but elite can cover up some holes.

 

[ANewHope]

13-14 Richards certainly wasn’t Kadri last year. He gave it his all, but not Kadri level. Role wise… they were penciled for the same role (Richards really struggled and got swapped out of that role many times). He did come back, but as a replacement level 4th player. Basically like losing that player. Massive regression. On the flip Voynov contributed more than Byram.

As I’ve said many times, no two teams are directly comparable. General rules matter though. You can’t beat age. RFA value contracts are windows. You need something from an ELC. You need a 1C, 2C and 1D… really helps to have a game breaking wing. Average goaltending it a ok… but elite can cover up some holes.

The year the Kings won the cup Richards literally put up like 40 points in the regular season. It doesn't compare to Kadri even if they played similar roles. What are we arguing here? lol yeah the next year he fell off and he was basically the only one outside of Voynov. Who I mean for the record was 25 year old ... so that wasn't aging/contract so not even sure why he's apart of the conversation honestly and the reason I didn't even mention him.

Sure. Long term 100% agree. That's not what happened to the Kings after they won the cup tho. You mentioned Reghr and he played like 8 games that playoff run. You mentioned Stoll who had abit of a drop off. You mentioned Voynov who has nothing to do with age. Richards is literally your only example. Everyone else from Brown to Gabroik to Williams produced and played at a similar level. Kopi/Doughty/Quick were in there primes.

The Kings didn't miss the playoffs after winning the cup due to age/contracts ... that's just a reality. Later seasons? Sure. I agree.

 

[Metallo]

Sens should just bite the bullet at this point and collect another potential franchise player in the top 5 of a legendary draft

They are the biggest disappointment of the season.

 

[redacted]

The year the Kings won the cup Richards literally put up like 40 points in the regular season. It doesn't compare to Kadri even if they played similar roles. What are we arguing here? lol yeah the next year he fell off and he was basically the only one outside of Voynov. Who I mean for the record was 25 year old ... so that wasn't aging/contract so not even sure why he's apart of the conversation honestly and the reason I didn't even mention him.

Sure. Long term 100% agree. That's not what happened to the Kings after they won the cup tho. You mentioned Reghr and he played like 8 games that playoff run. You mentioned Stoll who had abit of a drop off. You mentioned Voynov who has nothing to do with age. Richards is literally your only example. Everyone else from Brown to Gabroik to Williams produced and played at a similar level. Kopi/Doughty/Quick were in there primes.

The Kings didn't miss the playoffs after winning the cup due to age/contracts ... that's just a reality. Later seasons? Sure. I agree.

I’ve listed the examples of age and contracts. Your focusing on production from the exact cup year to after instead of looking that the whole picture and seeing what happened. Meaning roles, defensive ability, ability to step up when it mattered, injuries, west and tear, etc. Age and contracts is what mainly did the Kings in. They lost all their depth and key and core players at specific roles. Voynov was the only one really not related to age or contracts (and he just turned 24 the January prior to the Cup win).

I simply don’t care about the exact one season after the Cup win (which seems to be the focus of your point), I care about the next 3 where a ‘young’ core couldn’t ever contend again due to losing the advantages it once had. It seems to be your argument is that simply making the playoffs this year makes any comparison invalid for the Avs. That’s not at all the idea or point of windows. It is that when you lose advantages of the cores built, you lose ability to contend. In time, age and contracts chip away at any team in the cap era. It will happen to the Avs.

 

[Chiarelli]

Surprised Voynov never tried making a comeback. He’s still only 32 years old and looks like played at a high level until the last season or so

 

[ANewHope]

I simply don’t care about the exact one season after the Cup win

Which was the entire point now it's spiraled and turned into comparing a 40 point Richards to a Kadri who simply outclassed him last season. It honestly has nothing to do with the Avs. Last time we talked about this it was and I still disagree but that's an entirely different conversation. Just like I agree aging/contracts eventually factored into the Kings falling off later down the line. If the Avs fall off this season and C-Mac sits on his hands I won't blame aging at all. It'll be durability and lack of aggression by the FO.

I'm just saying the season directly after the cup win wasn't destroyed by age/injuries and that's just a literal fact. Alot of core players were under 30 and those above it still played well. Richards was the only one who fell off. Voynov was 25 and wasn't mentioned because his situation has nothing to do with age/contracts.

 

[redacted]

Surprised Voynov never tried making a comeback. He’s still only 32 years old and looks like played at a high level until the last season or so

It was floated a couple times… and close once.

 

[Pokecheque]

The super-rapid decline of Mike Richards was terrible to watch. Dude went from an elite two-way center to a fourth line scrub in no time. So tragic he got addicted to painkillers to try and mitigate the wear and tear on his small frame, and the Kings rewarded him by trying to terminate his contract for moral reasons, the same time they knowingly let Voynov practice with the team during his suspension. Dean Lombardi should never get a GM job ever again. Given how terrible he was near the end in LA and then his disastrous stint at the Olympics, he probably won’t.

I think he scored two shorthanded goals at 5-on-3 when he was still at Philly. That’s how good he was.

 

[redacted]

Which was the entire point now it's spiraled and turned into comparing a 40 point Richards to a Kadri who simply outclassed him last season. It honestly has nothing to do with the Avs. Last time we talked about this it was and I still disagree but that's an entirely different conversation. Just like I agree aging/contracts eventually factored into the Kings falling off later down the line. If the Avs fall off this season and C-Mac sits on his hands I won't blame aging at all. It'll be durability and lack of aggression by the FO.

I'm just saying the season directly after the cup win wasn't destroyed by age/injuries and that's just a literal fact. Alot of core players were under 30 and those above it still played well. Richards was the only one who fell off. Voynov was 25 and wasn't mentioned because his situation has nothing to do with age/contracts.

That wasn’t the point months ago or today. The whole point is that windows, even with young cores are short and end quicker than people think. You have to strike while you can. I’ve been outspoken that the Avs need to be aggressive this year even if it hurts 4 years from now.

I agree that if the Avs don’t win this year, it won’t be due to aging, it’ll be due to management. It gets progressively more difficult next year and beyond.

I might not even blame it next year (age likely no, contracts are a maybe)… after that age and contracts start definitely being a factor for the Avs.

 

[ANewHope]

That wasn’t the point months ago or today. The whole point is that windows, even with young cores are short and end quicker than people think. You have to strike while you can.

I agree that if the Avs don’t win this year, it won’t be due to aging, it’ll be due to management. It gets progressively more difficult next year and beyond.

I might not even blame it next year (age likely no, contracts are a maybe)… after that age and contracts start definitely being a factor for the Avs.

I'm not thinking about months ago when I'm positing today. I still think that as well. I don't think the Avs/Kings compare well for multiple reasons even if just for the fact that L.A was built for the playoffs where the Avs needed to learn how to play there. If anything I have L.A above Colorado. What's hilarious is it started because I said the Kings core wasn't young enough and they need to try and win now before they start aging and I don't understand why people think they are up and coming. That was the first post about the Kings. So the entire opposite compared to the Kings post cup.

I don't think you can blame age/contracts for the Kings missing the playoffs after winning the cup. A declining Richards doesn't compare to Kadri. Voynov has nothing to do with age. Later seasons? I agree. Kings just dropped the ball after winning the cup. Most of the vets were ready to go, most of the core was in there prime, they were one of the favorites to win the cup preseason .. they just dropped the ball. No excuses.

 

[redacted]

I'm not thinking about months ago when I'm positing today. I still think that as well. I don't think the Avs/Kings compare well for multiple reasons even if just for the fact that L.A was built for the playoffs where the Avs needed to learn how to play there. If anything I have L.A above Colorado. What's hilarious is it started because I said the Kings core wasn't young enough and they need to try and win now before they start aging and I don't understand why people think they are up and coming. That was the first post about the Kings. So the entire opposite compared to the Kings post cup.

I don't think you can blame age/contracts for the Kings missing the playoffs after winning the cup. A declining Richards doesn't compare to Kadri. Voynov has nothing to do with age. Later seasons? I agree. Kings just dropped the ball after winning the cup. Most of the vets were ready to go, most of the core was in there prime, they were one of the favorites to win the cup preseason .. they just dropped the ball. No excuses.

The missing the playoffs is not at all a big thing to me. Anything can happen oddly once. The fact that they never contended again is the big deal. You can’t waste window years. This is the Avs’ last obvious one with MacK’s contract. From here the advantages gained with the core will continue to dwindle

 

[ANewHope]

The missing the playoffs is not at all a big thing to me. Anything can happen oddly once. The fact that they never contended again is the big deal. You can’t waste window years. This is the Avs’ last obvious one with MacK’s contract. From here the advantages gained with the core will continue to dwindle

Yeah and I guess that's where I disagree. I think missing the playoffs is a massive deal. A massive failure. As you say "you can't waste window years" which I 100% agree with. When you miss the playoffs you don't even give yourself the chance at getting lucky. Especially when your core is still in there primes and your getting production from older vets. Makes it that much worse.

I have no idea when the window ends. I think it ends when the top guys start to decline which could be any year. Just guessing at that point. If the Avs miss the playoffs this year? It'll be a gigantic failure and one that won't be due to aging. Just like that Kings missed the playoffs post cup win wasn't due to aging.

 

[The Kingslayer]

Connor and Leon on an odd man rush is automatic

 

[redacted]

Yeah and I guess that's where I disagree. I think missing the playoffs is a massive deal. A massive failure. As you say "you can't waste window years" which I 100% agree with. When you miss the playoffs you don't even give yourself the chance at getting lucky. Especially when your core is still in there primes and your getting production from older vets. Makes it that much worse.

I have no idea when the window ends. I think it ends when the top guys start to decline which could be any year. Just guessing at that point. If the Avs miss the playoffs this year? It'll be a gigantic failure and one that won't be due to aging. Just like that Kings missed the playoffs post cup win wasn't due to aging.

Both would be due, in part to contracts and aging. Richards falling off the earth and losing Mitchell (and others) hurt the Kings to getting to the playoffs. If the Avs missed this year (and they won’t) Kadri being out, Landy’s injuries and age and who knows what else so far would definitely play a role. It would absolutely be a management failure and where the blame should be placed… age and contracts are playing a role with the Avs already today. The impact today is less than the impact in two years… still happening.

 

[ANewHope]

Both would be due, in part to contracts and aging. Richards falling off the earth and losing Mitchell (and others) hurt the Kings to getting to the playoffs. If the Avs missed this year (and they won’t) Kadri being out, Landy’s injuries and age and who knows what else so far would definitely play a role. It would absolutely be a management failure and where the blame should be placed… age and contracts are playing a role with the Avs already today. The impact today is less than the impact in two years… still happening.

Your watching the Avs this year. Who's aging? We can't stay healthy. If we get healthy and miss the playoffs you think it's due to age? Landeskog is really the only one up there and it's hard to blame age until we see him play because he was banged up last year in the playoffs and was good. If the Avs miss the playoffs this year age will play zero factor... zero. MacKinnon looks incredible. Rants looks incredible. Makar is in his prime. It'll be due to the lack of depth/2C ... and it's not like we don't have the assets to fix those issues. Any contract issue the Avs have is because the Avs refuse to dump EJ.

Just agree to disagree because I genuinely don't get the argument. The Kings core were in there prime/still producing post cup for 1 season where they missed the playoffs. Richards declined. Voynov was off the ice and had nothing to due with age. You wanna talk the Kings 2-3 years later? I actually agree. They were in prime position to repeat with a few tweaks tho directly after the cup win.

 

[the_fan]

Nieto and Sturm have as many goals as MacKinnon

 

[Gigantor The Goalie]

Isn't Michkov signed with a KHL team until 2026? That could scare some GMs away if they're looking for an immediate impact player.

Honestly quite a few teams at the bottom should be happy with the idea of Michkov staying in Russia for a few more years. Arizona and Chicago aren't anywhere close to competing for example. I know San Jose wants to compete but as long as the team is bad this year Grier might be able to get ownership to buy into a few years of retooling.

 

[Alienblood]

Based on numbers they're putting up for their new teams, looks like Burakovsky was a bigger loss than Kadri? Burkie has been awesome in Seattle

The love affair some here have for Kad

I'm guessing they're playin' the closed-door meeting card.

They SHOULD be trying for Chychrun. That blueline corps isn't nearly good enough.

I'm with you as to how Blake keeps his job. Horrible drafting and bleak future.

Never was a fan of Blake even as a player. Extremely overated

Button just had Michkov listed at 5th overall on his draft board. Has the kid fallen or is this just Button with a hot take?

Button and I don't see it with Bedard. Small and average skating. Not impressed with him at all

 

[AvsGuy]

Jesus Christ why don’t we overanalyze Mike Richards for a few more pages

 

[Pokecheque]

Jesus Christ why don’t we overanalyze Mike Richards for a few more pages

I mean we could switch to the other Michael Richards...