2022-2023 Around the League Part Deux

[redacted]

For every slow, not talented, thug complaining is a small skilled guy that makes his bread on the power play cheering.

Unfortunately, the old boys club is full of the former rather than the latter. You love the small boys too so you should be the biggest proponent.

Not really the case... though. IIRC Yzerman complained right out of the lockout that there were too many penalties called. Players and coaches hated it, and it wasn't the plugs.

I love how I am a size queen one month and then love the small ones the next around here.

 

[redacted]

But you are making it sound like the hooking and slashing we have today is the same as what we had in the 90s. It's completely different. We don't have folks taking out Bure's knees today. Yes, MacKinnon and MacDavid and other stars get grabbed, held and obstructed but it's nowhere close to what it was when we had the likes of Derian Hatcher making the All-Star games.

I will agree though that initially following the lockout the officials probably went too far and then reduced calls to an "acceptable?" level? That's the problem with subjective measurements though, they can and often do change over time. And it's definitely a driving problem with the lack of consistency...not only from ref to ref but the same ref within a single game is having problems being consistent with their calls. They really need help and I'm not sure what the answer is but it's a large part of the game and it's probably been too long since the league really gave a full effort to update its officiating.

It will never happen, but with as close to gambling as the game is getting (and in light of Tim Peel and what we all know about game management), I'd like to see more public scrutiny of officiating. I mean, these guys don't even wear their names on the sweaters anymore.

I also want to make it very clear that I do not believe there is some boogey man out to get the Avs or that we are somehow playing at a disadvantage that 31 other teams don't have. All teams are eating the same soup sandwich.

Rereading this, I think I may have too much of a hate-on for refs though. I should probably really work on letting that go.

The game has changed and how it is called has changed over the years... the rulebook hasn't really changed all that much. There are minor tweaks here and there, but new interpretations are happening all the time. I think the cross checking rule has been the same since the 70s, yet we see it called differently. The NHL is constantly tweaking these interpretations and you can make a case that is a root cause of inconsistency, but if you're strictly going by what the rule says... you might as well just staple Mikko in the box and play the whole game 4v5.

Things will never be fully consistent. It is just an impossible standard as long as humans are involved. If you want to take humans out of the equation, you certainly can... but that is a pandora's box situation. We see it with offsides, where literal millimeters that have zero impact can cause huge delays and major momentum swings. If we evaluate everything like that, you end up with a march of the 9s to perfection that is rooted in a ton of frustration. And likely ends up with rule changes to accept some logical changes (like offsides has).

On the reduced calls to an 'acceptable' level, since the stat has been tracked, last season was the lowest level of power plays opportunities in the league. There has been a very strong downward trend since 05-06... and I'd argue today's game is currently the best it has ever been.

 

[95snipes]

Saw that Jack Hughes has 100 points in his last 82. Crazy that we were a lottery win and a Montreal gaffe from:

Landeskog-MacKinnon-Rantanen
Nichuskin-Hughes-Caufield

And Montreal usually drafts about as poorly as we do. Admittedly, I wasn't Hughes's biggest fan back in 2019. Thought he'd struggle with physicality more than he has and didn't think he had this type of goal scoring upside. Saw him more of a 20-30 goal, 50-60 assist type of player. Think the NHL trend towards skill really helped his game.

And for anyone who follows prospects, there's a prospect, James Hagens, who plays at the NTDP who looks like the next Hughes.

 

[redacted]

Saw that Jack Hughes has 100 points in his last 82. Crazy that we were a lottery win and a Montreal gaffe from:

Landeskog-MacKinnon-Rantanen
Nichuskin-Hughes-Caufield

And Montreal usually drafts about as poorly as we do. Admittedly, I wasn't Hughes's biggest fan back in 2019. Thought he'd struggle with physicality more than he has and didn't think he had this type of goal scoring upside. Saw him more of a 20-30 goal, 50-60 assist type of player. Think the NHL trend towards skill really helped his game.

And for anyone who follows prospects, there's a prospect, James Hagens, who plays at the NTDP who looks like the next Hughes.

The one thing people don't appreciate about Hughes is just how good of goal scorer he actually is. The dude doesn't have a cannon or a hugely deceptive release... but he's good there, has absurd hands (can deke just about anyone), goes to the net consistently, and is positioned incredibly well. I don't think Hughes is going to be a 60+ goal guy by any stretch, but he's like McDavid that while his shot isn't incredible, he finds a way.

Hughes actually leads the league in EV goal this season, and despite playing only 89 games, the past two season he sits 13th in the league.

 

[Pokecheque]

Interesting to read that despite the high scoring totals, Leon Draisaitl is actually kinda pedestrian at even strength, especially when not pinned to McDavid's wing.

 

[95snipes]

The one thing people don't appreciate about Hughes is just how good of goal scorer he actually is. The dude doesn't have a cannon or a hugely deceptive release... but he's good there, has absurd hands (can deke just about anyone), goes to the net consistently, and is positioned incredibly well. I don't think Hughes is going to be a 60+ goal guy by any stretch, but he's like McDavid that while his shot isn't incredible, he finds a way.

Hughes actually leads the league in EV goal this season, and despite playing only 89 games, the past two season he sits 13th in the league.

I agree, he's much more of a goal scoring threat than I was expecting him to be. His shot has come a long way since he was 18. Opponents have to respect it now, where he had a muffin by NHL standards when he first broke into the league. Combine that with being such a good skater that he can open up lanes that otherwise wouldn't be there and has great hands in tight to make plays, he's a threat any time he has the puck. Great player.

 

[Balthazar]

Saw that Jack Hughes has 100 points in his last 82. Crazy that we were a lottery win and a Montreal gaffe from:

Landeskog-MacKinnon-Rantanen
Nichuskin-Hughes-Caufield

And Montreal usually drafts about as poorly as we do. Admittedly, I wasn't Hughes's biggest fan back in 2019. Thought he'd struggle with physicality more than he has and didn't think he had this type of goal scoring upside. Saw him more of a 20-30 goal, 50-60 assist type of player. Think the NHL trend towards skill really helped his game.

And for anyone who follows prospects, there's a prospect, James Hagens, who plays at the NTDP who looks like the next Hughes.

Not sure the Avs would have drafted Caufield.

 

[redacted]

I agree, he's much more of a goal scoring threat than I was expecting him to be. His shot has come a long way since he was 18. Opponents have to respect it now, where he had a muffin by NHL standards when he first broke into the league. Combine that with being such a good skater that he can open up lanes that otherwise wouldn't be there and has great hands in tight to make plays, he's a threat any time he has the puck. Great player.

I think it was exaggerated how much of a muffin it was. IMO his big issue was understanding his space and taking a bit more time to fire a snapper than just getting in it on net ASAP. But yeah, he understands how to score in the NHL. I thought he's be a 35-40g guy, but he might touch a bit more than that. That said, I've always gone off a lower scoring era... if scoring continues this way, all players are going to have higher totals than we once thought.

Not sure the Avs would have drafted Caufield.

I think the Avs go their guy. Maybe the only guy past 9 that they would have gone for instead would be Boldy.. but I'm not even sure there.

 

[The Abusement Park]

The one thing people don't appreciate about Hughes is just how good of goal scorer he actually is. The dude doesn't have a cannon or a hugely deceptive release... but he's good there, has absurd hands (can deke just about anyone), goes to the net consistently, and is positioned incredibly well. I don't think Hughes is going to be a 60+ goal guy by any stretch, but he's like McDavid that while his shot isn't incredible, he finds a way.

Hughes actually leads the league in EV goal this season, and despite playing only 89 games, the past two season he sits 13th in the league.

Imagine if he had a legit top 6 guy on his wing instead of Haula.

 

[95snipes]

Not sure the Avs would have drafted Caufield.

Yeah who knows. I would've been really disappointed if they did pass on him. Even with the size concerns (which were overblown IMO), 16 would have been incredible value for Caufield. You would think he would fit our system perfectly.

I think it was exaggerated how much of a muffin it was. IMO his big issue was understanding his space and taking a bit more time to fire a snapper than just getting in it on net ASAP. But yeah, he understands how to score in the NHL. I thought he's be a 35-40g guy, but he might touch a bit more than that. That said, I've always gone off a lower scoring era... if scoring continues this way, all players are going to have higher totals than we once thought.


I think the Avs go their guy. Maybe the only guy past 9 that they would have gone for instead would be Boldy.. but I'm not even sure there.

Interesting take. I didn't see that type of goal scorer in Hughes, but you've been right about many things in the past. My pre draft comparison was a smaller, but more polished & consistent Kuznetsov. Which is not intended to be an insult, Kuznetsov has the ability to be a top 10 center in the league when he's going IMO. Keep in mind he was a year removed from 32 point playoff run at the time. Both elite puck carriers. Hughes has proven to be better than that though.

Boldy was personally my favorite prospect of the 2019 draft. 4 would have been high for Boldy, but I wouldn't have hated it.

 

[redacted]

Imagine if he had a legit top 6 guy on his wing instead of Haula.

We might see in Palat soon when he gets his legs going. Though Haula has been really good for Hughes... a guy that can keep up with him and shelter some of the defensive responsibilities. Kinda like Landy for MacK years ago.

 

[Balthazar]

Yeah who knows. I would've been really disappointed if they did pass on him. Even with the size concerns (which were overblown IMO), 16 would have been incredible value for Caufield. You would think he would fit our system perfectly.

He doesn't play a Bednar kind of game, I can guarantee you that.

 

[The Abusement Park]

We might see in Palat soon when he gets his legs going. Though Haula has been really good for Hughes... a guy that can keep up with him and shelter some of the defensive responsibilities. Kinda like Landy for MacK years ago.

For sure. He fills the need of taking draws and defensive responsibility away from Hughes, but the dude lacks production. It’s crazy he’s only scored 2 goals next to Hughes.

 

[redacted]

Interesting take. I didn't see that type of goal scorer in Hughes, but you've been right about many things in the past. My pre draft comparison was a smaller, but more polished & consistent Kuznetsov. Which is not intended to be an insult, Kuznetsov has the ability to be a top 10 center in the league when he's going IMO. Keep in mind he was a year removed from 32 point playoff run at the time. Both elite puck carriers. Hughes has proven to be better than that though.

Boldy was personally my favorite prospect of the 2019 draft. 4 would have been high for Boldy, but I wouldn't have hated it.

I think people underrate how much hands play a role in goal scoring, especially for skilled players in the dirty areas. Hughes has hands that only a select few players can rival.

I totally understand and understood the Boldy love... 4 would have been a touch rich for me too... but anywhere 6+ he made some sense. My biggest gripe about Boldy is that he's a winger. Minny (and many others) thought Boldy could work as a center, which then he'd have been a top 5 sort of guy. But as a winger, you're getting a great one... but leaving a number of good centers and defensemen on the board.

For sure. He fills the need of taking draws and defensive responsibility away from Hughes, but the dude lacks production. It’s crazy he’s only scored 2 goals next to Hughes.

Yeah he's not a good player, he just fills a nice role for Hughes when his game gets leaky.

I really want to see a Sharangovich-Hughes-Bratt line with consistency... that line has every skill that is needed if it clicked.

 

[Pokecheque]

He doesn't play a Bednar kind of game, I can guarantee you that.

I think Bednar would've figured out how to use him just fine.

 

[95snipes]

He doesn't play a Bednar kind of game, I can guarantee you that.

Ok he's not Lehkonen, but he wouldn't have any issues. If Donskoi can find success here, then Caufield would do just fine. When we have Byram back and our transition game is going, I think he'd thrive here.

I think people underrate how much hands play a role in goal scoring, especially for skilled players in the dirty areas. Hughes has hands that only a select few players can rival.

I totally understand and understood the Boldy love... 4 would have been a touch rich for me too... but anywhere 6+ he made some sense. My biggest gripe about Boldy is that he's a winger. Minny (and many others) thought Boldy could work as a center, which then he'd have been a top 5 sort of guy. But as a winger, you're getting a great one... but leaving a number of good centers and defensemen on the board.



Yeah he's not a good player, he just fills a nice role for Hughes when his game gets leaky.

I really want to see a Sharangovich-Hughes-Bratt line with consistency... that line has every skill that is needed if it clicked.

Agree with all of that.

 

[Chiarelli]

Boldy is the prototype for my favourite style of player: smart, skilled, skating, and size. Would love him on the Avs.

 

[Pokecheque]

Boldy is the prototype for my favourite style of player: smart, skilled, skating, and size. Would love him on the Avs.

Keep dreaming because no way in HELL is Minnesota giving him up.

He's a tremendous player, yet another phenom from that stacked USNTDP program. It's even more unbelievable in hindsight that team got Askarov'd, especially since Askarov himself has not been any great shakes in the pros.

The overpaid and often-injured Jordan Greenway is probably available though!

 

[The Kingslayer]

All this Hughes talk is sad. He should be here right now doing all this on this team.

 

[LOFIN]

All this Hughes talk is sad. He should be here right now doing all this on this team.

I don't give a f*** about Hughes. We got Byram, and without him we don't win the Cup. End of story. No, you can't beg to differ. We don't win without Byram. Period.

 

[nammerus]

I don't give a f*** about Hughes. We got Byram, and without him we don't win the Cup. End of story. No, you can't beg to differ. We don't win without Byram. Period.

A third line centered by Hughes is likely as impactful, if not moreso then what Byram contributed. Mack/Kadri/Hughes…my god.

And we might have won with him the year before that too.

 

[The Kingslayer]

I don't give a f*** about Hughes. We got Byram, and without him we don't win the Cup. End of story. No, you can't beg to differ. We don't win without Byram. Period.

I beg to differ.

 

[The Kingslayer]

Alex Tuch has 19 goals already. Good for him. Hated him on the Knights because he seemed to always score against the Avs. Seems like hes very happy to be back home.

 

[The Kingslayer]

Is anyone more done in the NHL than OEL?

 

[Metallo]

But you are making it sound like the hooking and slashing we have today is the same as what we had in the 90s. It's completely different. We don't have folks taking out Bure's knees today. Yes, MacKinnon and MacDavid and other stars get grabbed, held and obstructed but it's nowhere close to what it was when we had the likes of Derian Hatcher making the All-Star games.

I will agree though that initially following the lockout the officials probably went too far and then reduced calls to an "acceptable?" level? That's the problem with subjective measurements though, they can and often do change over time. And it's definitely a driving problem with the lack of consistency...not only from ref to ref but the same ref within a single game is having problems being consistent with their calls. They really need help and I'm not sure what the answer is but it's a large part of the game and it's probably been too long since the league really gave a full effort to update its officiating.

It will never happen, but with as close to gambling as the game is getting (and in light of Tim Peel and what we all know about game management), I'd like to see more public scrutiny of officiating. I mean, these guys don't even wear their names on the sweaters anymore.

I also want to make it very clear that I do not believe there is some boogey man out to get the Avs or that we are somehow playing at a disadvantage that 31 other teams don't have. All teams are eating the same soup sandwich.

Rereading this, I think I may have too much of a hate-on for refs though. I should probably really work on letting that go.

I remember that 7 period OT game between Isles and Caps where they called nothing in OT and guys were just tackling each other. The game is called pretty tight now on an historical perspective.