2022-2023 Around the League Part Deux

[redacted]

Of all the teams that are 'tanking", Arizona is the only team with a winning home record?

Is it possible that visiting players being underwhelmed by the venue and resentment for playing in a joke of an arena are defaulting to a home ice advantage for Arizona?

Or is it more the arena is rocking and the ice is fantastic to where it is a legit home ice advantage?

 

[John Mandalorian]

But it is more than that. Far, far more. Hence, the current backlash.

As I said, I would have taken the ice. But I don't believe others should be forced to, under threat.



Maybe other teams systemically underestimate a last place team?

Like I said, only Arizona has a winning home record.

 

[Pokecheque]

Of all the teams that are 'tanking", Arizona is the only team with a winning home record?

Is it possible that visiting players being underwhelmed by the venue and resentment for playing in a joke of an arena are defaulting to a home ice advantage for Arizona?

I doubt that’s the case. Many have said the arena experience there is fine. It’s more likely the raucous crowd just gets the home team pumped up. They’re a bad team but they have enough pieces that they can pull upsets when the goaltending holds up.

If you want to talk about a joke of an arena I’ve heard Honda Center in Anaheim is a total garbage dump.

 

[redacted]

I doubt that’s the case. Many have said the arena experience there is fine. It’s more likely the raucous crowd just gets the home team pumped up. They’re a bad team but they have enough pieces that they can pull upsets when the goaltending holds up.

If you want to talk about a joke of an arena I’ve heard Honda Center in Anaheim is a total garbage dump.

Honda Center is just sterile more than a dump. It was designed in the early 90s and it shows… hasn’t really been updated well since. Wouldn’t put it bottom 5 though. There are some really bad arenas in the NHL.

 

[Gumballhead]

It is too early to say nothing at all happened to Provorov. The first day Kaep kneeled, he didn’t have consequences besides scorn… but over time he got blackballed out of the league. Now I don’t think that will happen here as despite outward appearances, the NHL as a whole is a very conservative league, more so than most.

Homosexuality exists in nature (I have an amusing story about my bulldog when the mood lightens up) and has existed throughout recorded history. Odds are very high it is not a choice for the vast majority.

I was careful to choose my words - nothing happened. He got to play, his coach covered for him. If there are future consequences, they are in line with what happens to someone who makes a decision like he did. Maybe he’s so devout in his beliefs that he doesn’t care about consequences. Maybe he’s a dummy. I have no idea, but he made his choice.

It’s important not to lose focus and keep in mind that even in 2023, lots of people have to put up with lots of stuff to protect themselves and keep their jobs and endure things far less comfortable than putting on a certain jersey for 20 or 30 minutes in public. You can recognize the struggles of people with entirely different lives and support their validity without agreeing, even tacitly, with who they are or what they are. There’s a stigma attached to homosexuality and gender identity issues that seem to make it okey to downplay.

The gender spectrum is as real and as inevitable as cancer or mental health or anything else that needs awareness; the problem is that some people think it IS mental illness or depravity or a choice. Any time this stuff comes up the comparisons are always to negative things. It’s just a thing, and it always has been and always will be a thing. Failing to comprehend this and see this is about people and nothing more will always have some on the wrong side of the issue.

So I think he was wrong, but he’s got the right to do what he wants. No one should feel bad for him for being in a 24-48 hour media and Internet storm cycle, but if you want to, you also have that right.

 

[Vaslof]

Wake up to see this thread has blown up.

I respect Provorov's right to protest the action. I completely disagree with his stance and beliefs, but there should be nothing wrong with him taking a (non-violent) stance in the US anyways.

I wouldn't have played him personally... not because of the beliefs or protest in and of themselves, but he's an employee that wasn't following through on a basic, required duty. A warm up is a part of getting ready for the game and getting a feel for the ice, puck, and game, not participating because your employer is celebrating something (and realistically this is a marketing event which players are 100% required to partake in... companies, brands, etc are not your friend they are selling you something) is in violation of his contract.

It's not a non-violent stance, it is inherently violent. He is treating them as sub-humans by saying they shouldn't be allowed to be part of hockey. All because they happened to be born that way. It's no different than from what Americans have done and in many ways still do to the black people. As for the contract, I'd imagine the NHL has a clause on hateful behavior. Like if they had someone go full Kanye West they would definitely be gone. I don't think they are interested in getting rid of him unless it becomes a bigger PR disaster.

 

[ABasin]

It's not a non-violent stance, it is inherently violent. He is treating them as sub-humans by saying they shouldn't be allowed to be part of hockey.

Provorov said that?

 

[Vaslof]

Regardless, my initial point still stands. People have a right to their own viewpoint in life and you can respect the other side while not agreeing with them. Again, it's "Go ahead and do your thing" vs. "I will support you throughout your journey". He's not telling other people how to live their lives, he's living his own through his morals and beliefs. Which is how religion should be.

This expected policy of follow along or be punished is nuts.

No, people absolutely shouldn't have a right to treat other people as sub-humans, or right to any other viewpoint that hurts other people. And he IS telling people how to live their lives, by saying that LGBTQ people don't belong here. If he never shows his hateful views to anyone, then yes he can live his life with whatever morals and beliefs he wants to, and he can think whatever he wants to. He can have whatever spiritual connection he wants to. Just f***ing treat other people as people.

 

[The Abusement Park]

 

[The Abusement Park]

Okay so if a white guy says no blacks allowed in this bar, is that non-violent? Is that something you think should be respected?

I don’t agree with what Provorov did. But I also think you‘re jumping the gun a little bit here. There’s a huge gap between what he did and you assuming he’s doing everything in his power to keep the lgbtq community out of the NHL.

At least given all the information that we have.

 

[Vaslof]

I don’t agree with what Provorov did. But I also think you‘re jumping the gun a little bit here. There’s a huge gap between what he did and you assuming he’s doing everything in his power to keep the lgbtq community out of the NHL.

At least given all the information that we have.

So it only counts if he is literally lynching LGBTQ people?

 

[ABasin]

No, people absolutely shouldn't have a right to treat other people as sub-humans, or right to any other viewpoint that hurts other people. And he IS telling people how to live their lives, by saying that LGBTQ people don't belong here.

Provorov said that?

 

[Pokecheque]

Honda Center is just sterile more than a dump. It was designed in the early 90s and it shows… hasn’t really been updated well since. Wouldn’t put it bottom 5 though. There are some really bad arenas in the NHL.

Which ones are actually bad? I'm guessing the Saddledome is probably pretty awful. Mark Moser certainly thinks so.

 

[redacted]

Which ones are actually bad? I'm guessing the Saddledome is probably pretty awful. Mark Moser certainly thinks so.

Saddledome is the worst. Canadian Tire Center is outdated, stale and has zero to do around it. SAP is pretty terrible and is probably the most outdate building outside of Calgary. Key Bank in Buffalo is falling apart. Then you get to PNC and BB&T

 

[The Kingslayer]

Should be here

 

[The Merchant]

"We welcome players to alienate the minority groups we claim we give a shit about."

 

[Pokecheque]

Saddledome is the worst. Canadian Tire Center is outdated, stale and has zero to do around it. SAP is pretty terrible and is probably the most outdate building outside of Calgary. Key Bank in Buffalo is falling apart. Then you get to PNC and BB&T

Oh God SAP is so goddamned old the backup goalie can't even sit on the bench IIRC. Patrick Roy sure loved the lighting there though.

 

[UncleRisto]

Don't really see much that is noteworthy in any of this.

 

[Pokecheque]

But Provorov isn’t actively trying to harm the lgbtq community or protesting their ability play in the NHL?

He absolutely is by doing this. He spat in the face of an initiative driven by two of his teammates to create a safe space for LBGTQ+ folks to watch and enjoy hockey. It's an act of hate, not any sort of peaceful protest or expression of religious views.

 

[dahrougem2]

OK, and if my religion "tells me" that Muslims are to be reviled and are going to hell, do you think it reasonable for me to never show any respect towards or even acknowledge in a minor, token way that they are people just like me? How do you think violence at mosques or drag shows starts? Small seeds.

It's interesting you used the words promote, celebrate, believe and then pin that to the idea of it being a choice -- all you need to do is acknowledge and respect that non-straight people exist and should have the same go as everyone else. You don't have to respect the actual gayness. It's people! It's about humanity. Even if I foolishly had issues with Muslims, I'm not arrogant or ignorant enough to think they should be treated differently as human beings. I'd think you'd get some perspective, if you live in the US or Canada for instance, about people seeing you differently because of something about you that helps define you. And religion is a choice, whether you grew up religious or not. Trust me, I worked with a lot of fallen Mormons, and you'd be hard pressed to find a more total lifestyle religion than that to grow up in.

Who is saying respect isn't being shown? Provorov didn't attack them, didn't chastise them, didn't call them names. He refused to wear a jersey in support of LGBTQ and later said he respects people to be whatever/whoever they want to be. There is NOTHING wrong with that. Just because he doesn't believe things the way you want him to believe does not make this person a bad person or wrong.

You can say all you want it's about humanity, but religious people don't just give up the things they believe in because others - who may not value religion as much - want them to. It's not that simple.

 

[Alex Jones]

Okay so if a white guy says no blacks allowed in this bar, is that non-violent? Is that something you think should be respected?

The difference is power. Choosing to wear or not to wear a warmup jersey is essentially meaningless. Do I agree with it? No. Do I think Provorov is an idiot? Yea, probably. I would have a problem with it if an owner or coach refused to let his team participate.

 

[redacted]

Oh God SAP is so goddamned old the backup goalie can't even sit on the bench IIRC. Patrick Roy sure loved the lighting there though.

It is really bad… there is some unique charm to it, but they need a new building as badly as Calgary does.

 

[forsbergavs32]

I get that it’s difficult because we are all different, but if this is to continue being discussed it needs to stick with being about Provorov and hockey, not personal beliefs and personal attacks for those beliefs.

In short, please stay on the topic of Provorov and hockey.

 

[Pokecheque]

I get that it’s difficult because we are all different, but if this is to continue being discussed it needs to stick with being about Provorov and hockey, not personal beliefs and personal attacks for those beliefs.

In short, please stay on the topic of Provorov and hockey.

Good luck with that.

 

[ItsFineImFine]

Tbh I don't like the SAP because of the camera view. It seems too far, I always enjoy when the Sharks get knocked out. A low viewing angle is bad (FLA and nowadays embarassingly Phoenix) and so is a high one but a 'distant' camera view is the worse.