The Kingslayer
Registered User
Yah. I wont judge anyone any differently after tonight. I will hate you all equally for killing my tank hard for Bedard dream.
2022-2023 Around the League Part Deux
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The Kingslayer
Registered User
Ya maybe with the Dr. Nick Riviera medical staff in Denver he probably have an arm for a leg right now.
Thats racist.
katfude
Registered User
- Sep 25, 2015
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You're good, bud. We're here to talk hockey. Shit like this sucks, but it happens. The discussion here was much more respectful than it ever could have been on the mains.
Avsfan1921
Registered User
- Oct 5, 2019
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Gord puts it right. Freedom of expression doesn't grant you freedom from consequences of your actions. He shouldn't have played tonight.
At least Scott Laughton and James van Riemsdyk are people I can root for. Boy are they now in a tough situation.
El Travo
Why are we still here? Just to suffer?
- Aug 11, 2015
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You can respect someone and their choices/lifestyle while simultaneously not being in full support of it. It's basically "Go ahead and do your thing" vs. "I'm going to support you throughout your journey".
If players are allowed to refuse a trip to the White House for varying political reasons, then I don't see why a person can't choose to sit out of an LGBT event due to religious reasons.
If players are allowed to refuse a trip to the White House for varying political reasons, then I don't see why a person can't choose to sit out of an LGBT event due to religious reasons.
They want to force them to wear their political statement. But if they were to wear a political statement against (anti-abortion) they would scream and kick like toddlers.
Avsfan1921
Registered User
- Oct 5, 2019
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Sorry, I said that I would abandon but that is actually an interesting thing to me too. We can sit here and hypothesize on the what-ifs with Provorov in regards to his views but what Torts did is more damning in my view. How he can threaten to sit a player for one belief but let another go for theirs is pretty damning to me and speaks more to actual bigotry and hypocrisy than what Provorov done.
expatriatedtexan
Illegitimati non carborundum
- Aug 17, 2005
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I appreciate it man. And the wonderful thing about my opinion is that is has been known to be wrong before and I have absolutely no problem modifying my opinions and beliefs as I grow and learn. Trust me, that process is continuing into my 50s now. But I like to challenge myself to learn in order to become a better husband, person, coworker and all-around human all the time.
But whose freedom of expression are we talking about. The Leagues, the Flyers or Provs? He was being forced to wear someone else's freedom of expression, not his own.
And with that, I'm done.
katfude
Registered User
- Sep 25, 2015
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Buddy, they wear camo jerseys on military night all the time. Pride is about the right to exist.
They are MADE political by people who do not like them. The right to exist and enjoy the sport you love is not political.
Sorry, I ran out of free time now so I can't continue with this discussion. If you want to continue you can PM me at any time.
I want to finish with this. I don't think we can get over the hump of choice vs freedom, thus our views won't ever get into alignment. However, I do understand why you consider it serious and what it really comes down to. I already explained the biological basis against the born-gay argument and that's where I keep my viewpoint. I will always take the principles of science over sociology. Again, that is not to disrespect or undermine homosexuality at all, I personally find freedom of choice more significant in life than being "born of something." A lot of "being born of something" tends to be negative such as increased levels of schizophrenia if your parent has it, ADHD if your parent has it, or heart disease, if your past generations have it like Elvis Presley's family might do.
We tend to focus on individual people who do not have that much power and influence. We can argue all we want about what Provorov should have or shouldn't have done or what we would have all done.
It seems like there are players on the Flyers who have spent actual hours supporting the community and creating powerful and influential opportunities for actual children. That is what is important.
It seems like there are players on the Flyers who have spent actual hours supporting the community and creating powerful and influential opportunities for actual children. That is what is important.
El Travo
Why are we still here? Just to suffer?
- Aug 11, 2015
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Regardless, my initial point still stands. People have a right to their own viewpoint in life and you can respect the other side while not agreeing with them. Again, it's "Go ahead and do your thing" vs. "I will support you throughout your journey". He's not telling other people how to live their lives, he's living his own through his morals and beliefs. Which is how religion should be.
This expected policy of follow along or be punished is nuts.
dahrougem2
Registered User
Blows my mind but it is the world we live in today. Comply or be ostracized and villainized.
The crazies on Twitter out in full force demanding the Flyers terminate his contract.
katfude
Registered User
- Sep 25, 2015
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Well there is no team policy and there was no punishment.
Freedom of speech is not freedom from consequences.
katfude
Registered User
- Sep 25, 2015
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I think we're oversimplifying here. Sexuality is a spectrum. We as humans try to fit everything into neat little boxes so we can label them and then judge them. People can be attracted to both sexes, or any number of genders (because gender is a social construct). Where you fall on the wide wide spectrum of human sexuality isn't because of the kind of toys you played with as a kid.
El Travo
Why are we still here? Just to suffer?
- Aug 11, 2015
- 14,779
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Yet we have media outlets and other people declaring that he should have been or should be punished.
Like I said, the expected policy of there being punishment for this is nuts. Punishing (or wanting punishment for) those who just want to live by their own beliefs/lifestyle is funnily enough exactly what's wrong with religion.
It's annoying, we have a small streak going but all the playoff teams or bubble teams keep winning. It will be complicated to make the playoffs..
katfude
Registered User
- Sep 25, 2015
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We live in a society and that has consequences. He may sincerely feel he did nothing wrong, but many people feel otherwise as you can clearly see.
expatriatedtexan
Illegitimati non carborundum
- Aug 17, 2005
- 20,167
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Again, whose freedom of speech are we talking about here. Prov was being ordered to wear somebody else's freedom of speech, not his own.
I had absolutely no problems with Colin K for the same reasoning.
TruePowerSlave
Registered User
- Jun 27, 2015
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If they lose to Calgary it's back to square one, 6 points back
El Travo
Why are we still here? Just to suffer?
- Aug 11, 2015
- 14,779
- 18,743
There are those who believe that the LGBT community are wrong. Should the LGBT community be punished because many people feel that way? F*** no.
We should be moving towards a society where people can live by their own moral code so long as it doesn't hurt or impact others. Not whatever this bullshit is where you're either with us or against us.
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