Rumor: 2022-2022 Trade Rumors and Free Agency Part 14: Sakic goes back to bed

[S E P H]

For goalies... options in order:

1. Gibson with 50% retention
2. Gibson with 45% retention
3. Gibson with 40% retention
.
.
18. MAF for a year
19. MAF for 2 years
20. Campbell
21. Samsonov/Vaneck
22. Husso
23. Shooter Tutor
24. F it, go empty net
25. Kuemper for league minimum
26. @S E P H
27. Kuemper for market rate
28. Comrie

Lol, I think @RoyIsALegend is better than me.

 

[SaltySkywalker]

For goalies... options in order:

1. Gibson with 50% retention
2. Gibson with 45% retention
3. Gibson with 40% retention
.
.
18. MAF for a year
19. MAF for 2 years
20. Campbell
21. Samsonov/Vaneck
22. Husso
23. Shooter Tutor
24. F it, go empty net
25. Kuemper for league minimum
26. @S E P H
27. Kuemper for market rate
28. Comrie

.
.
.
100. Hunter Miska

 

[Pokecheque]

I like that SEPH is sandwiched in between the two Kuemper options.

One byproduct of the overall rise in scoring is that goaltending overall seems to have taken a step back. Just not a lot of options out there.

I still wonder if Stolarz is an option. I imagine Anaheim will hold onto him if they do indeed part with Gibson but he had by all accounts a breakout NHL season.

.
.
.
100. Hunter Miska

Waaaaaaay too high.

 

[Colorado Avalanche]

For goalies... options in order:

1. Gibson with 50% retention
2. Gibson with 45% retention
3. Gibson with 40% retention
.
.
18. MAF for a year
19. MAF for 2 years
20. Campbell
21. Samsonov/Vaneck
22. Husso
23. Shooter Tutor
24. F it, go empty net
25. Kuemper for league minimum
26. @S E P H
27. Kuemper for market rate
28. Comrie

Analytics wise Gibson sucks. Kuempers stats with Arizona better. (Past few seasons)

I am not sure if we are talking upgrade here..

Grubauer went from one of the best stats to one of the worst with Kraken.

So analytics won't tell the whole story. A lot depends on how well the team defends in front of you.

NHL Goalie Advanced Stats 2024-2025

NHL Goalie Analytics, Goals Saved Above Expected

moneypuck.com

A good team makes quite a big difference though. Gruuu goes from one of the best to one of the worst.


Find a goalie who plays for a bad team, but has decent stats in front of a bad defense. Probably a bargain or at least good potential. Flying under the radar a bit.

 

[Richard88]

For goalies... options in order:

1. Gibson with 50% retention
2. Gibson with 45% retention
3. Gibson with 40% retention
.
.
18. MAF for a year
19. MAF for 2 years
20. Campbell
21. Samsonov/Vaneck
22. Husso
23. Shooter Tutor
24. F it, go empty net
25. Kuemper for league minimum
26. @S E P H
27. Kuemper for market rate
28. Comrie

I want to see option 26. Post game threads would be amazing

 

[redacted]

Analytics wise Gibson sucks. Kuempers stats with Arizona better. (Past few seasons)

I am not sure if we are talking upgrade here..

Grubauer went from one of the best stats to one of the worst with Kraken.

Grubi should prove to you how bad many of those stats are. He wasn't ever the best goalie, and he's not the worst goalie either...

There is a strong correlation between teams that have a high percentage of unblocked shots and poor GSAA even though the GSAA stat is supposed to cover it. Analytics on goalies are a mess. Plenty of numbers could be put out there to paint various narratives.

 

[Colorado Avalanche]

Grubi should prove to you how bad many of those stats are.

There is a strong correlation between teams that have a high percentage of unblocked shots and poor GSAA even though the GSAA stat is supposed to cover it. Analytics on goalies are a mess. Plenty of numbers could be put out there to paint various narratives.

It really seems like goaltender stats correlate to team defense.

You can go from being a top goaltender to one of the worst. That's insane. (Gru).

and no way Gru is the worst goalie in NHL. (starting)

EDIT;

What's funny is Edmonton kept complaining that Smith cost them the series, but he has better analytics than Francouz or Kuemper.

 

[Pokecheque]

Analytics wise Gibson sucks. Kuempers stats with Arizona better. (Past few seasons)

I am not sure if we are talking upgrade here..

Grubauer went from one of the best stats to one of the worst with Kraken.

So analytics won't tell the whole story. A lot depends on how well the team defends in front of you.

NHL Goalie Advanced Stats 2024-2025

NHL Goalie Analytics, Goals Saved Above Expected

moneypuck.com

A good team makes quite a big difference though. Gruuu goes from one of the best to one of the worst.

There is something to be said about goalies and the types of defenses they thrive/struggle behind. Kuemper seemed to do really well in Arizona, a team that stats-wise was not great by any means, but also went out of its way to block shots and clog up the slot area. Avs utilize puck possession and movement as the backbone of their defense, which means much fewer chances, but the ones that DO get in are clean shots. Kuemper really seemed to struggle with that early on.

Groob seems to have thrived under the Avs system but then went to a Seattle team that actually put up good overall defensive numbers, but I believe they also gave up more odd-man rushes, which is his kryptonite. Say what you will about Frankie but he's vastly superior to Grubauer when it comes to stopping breakaways.

I still say that one advantage Frankie might have over Kuemper is that the Avs seem to gameplan around him a little better. Doesn't mean I'd rather go with Frankie though.

 

[Colorado Avalanche]

There is something to be said about goalies and the types of defenses they thrive/struggle behind. Kuemper seemed to do really well in Arizona, a team that stats-wise was not great by any means, but also went out of its way to block shots and clog up the slot area. Avs utilize puck possession and movement as the backbone of their defense, which means much fewer chances, but the ones that DO get in are clean shots. Kuemper really seemed to struggle with that early on.

Groob seems to have thrived under the Avs system but then went to a Seattle team that actually put up good overall defensive numbers, but I believe they also gave up more odd-man rushes, which is his kryptonite. Say what you will about Frankie but he's vastly superior to Grubauer when it comes to stopping breakaways.

I still say that one advantage Frankie might have over Kuemper is that the Avs seem to gameplan around him a little better. Doesn't mean I'd rather go with Frankie though.

Very good point actually. The style defense plays in front of you matters.

For example, in last night's game, Kuemper gave the attacker way too much space in front of the net and Tampa had an easy time lifting it over Kuemper. He needs to be more aggressive/strong on those.

Vasi would have poke-checked one of those goals away.

So you need a goalie who is capable of saving situations YOUR TEAM faces

 

[Pokecheque]

Very good point actually. The style defense plays in front of you matters.

For example, in last night's game, Kuemper gave the attacker way too much space in front of the net and Tampa had an easy time lifting it over Kuemper. He needs to be more aggressive/strong on those.

Vasi would have poke-checked one of those goals away.

So you need a goalie who is capable of saving situations YOUR TEAM faces

Yep, I thought of that immediately after both of the goals he gave up close-in. He's either way too overly aggressive or not nearly enough.

Vasilevskiy's stick work is the best I've ever seen from a goalie. He even used the butt end to clear a puck that was headed his way from the boards.

 

[redacted]

It really seems like goaltender stats correlate to team defense.

You can go from being a top goaltender to one of the worst. That's insane. (Gru).

and no way Gru is the worst goalie in NHL. (starting)

EDIT;

What's funny is Edmonton kept complaining that Smith cost them the series, but he has better analytics than Francouz or Kuemper.

Overall I think the stats say good team defense more than anything else. You can get into micro areas that can say things, but finding correlation between great goalies and something specific that can be carried across the league is difficult.

There is something to be said about goalies and the types of defenses they thrive/struggle behind. Kuemper seemed to do really well in Arizona, a team that stats-wise was not great by any means, but also went out of its way to block shots and clog up the slot area. Avs utilize puck possession and movement as the backbone of their defense, which means much fewer chances, but the ones that DO get in are clean shots. Kuemper really seemed to struggle with that early on.

Groob seems to have thrived under the Avs system but then went to a Seattle team that actually put up good overall defensive numbers, but I believe they also gave up more odd-man rushes, which is his kryptonite. Say what you will about Frankie but he's vastly superior to Grubauer when it comes to stopping breakaways.

I still say that one advantage Frankie might have over Kuemper is that the Avs seem to gameplan around him a little better. Doesn't mean I'd rather go with Frankie though.

I do think different goalies play better behind different types of teams. Until Varly went to the island and got back to work with the best in the business... he was much better when he had a workload and could stay engaged. Some goalies like Andersen work a lot better when they don't have heavy workloads within games. Gibson is between, but his biggest weaknesses are bad angle shots and lots of shots from the point that get through. In dangerous areas he's very good.

 

[Colorado Avalanche]

Looking at more stats, it seems Vasi beats Kuemper especially on saving Medium to High chances on a way higher level than Kuemper. (in playoffs)

This is interesting because Regular season Kuemper was better on both of those stats or the same.

Kuemper has lost his best ability in making key saves, because of the concussion/eye problem.

Which fits the fans' "eye test".

Kuemper isn't making those key saves he used to.

 

[Pokecheque]

Kuemper has lost his best ability in making key saves, because of the concussion/eye problem.

Again, Kuemper was stinking it up in April and the first couple games against Nashville before the eye injury. The narrative surrounding that eye-poke has been blown WAY outta proportion.

 

[redacted]

Looking at more stats, it seems Vasi beats Kuemper especially on saving Medium to High chances on a way higher level than Kuemper. (in playoffs)

This is interesting because Regular season Kuemper was better on both of those stats or the same.

Kuemper has lost his best ability in making key saves, because of the concussion/eye problem.

Which fits the fans' "eye test".

Kuemper isn't making those key saves he used to.

This problem started before the eye injury....

 

[Colorado Avalanche]

Again, Kuemper was stinking it up in April and the first couple games against Nashville before the eye injury. The narrative surrounding that eye-poke has been blown WAY outta proportion.

It would be interesting to see stats from that date on.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Again, Kuemper was stinking it up in April and the first couple games against Nashville before the eye injury. The narrative surrounding that eye-poke has been blown WAY outta proportion.

And even if that sole is the reason for his play, he shouldn’t be playing regardless.

 

[Pokecheque]

It would be interesting to see stats from that date on.

Played 9 games in the month of April, went 6-3-0 and posted 0.912 Sv. % and a 3.23 GAA.

I don't have the numbers for his games against Nashville but trust me, he let in some bad ones.

And even if that sole is the reason for his play, he shouldn’t be playing regardless.

When the Avs said he was 100% before the series started, I believe them. This is not an eye issue, he just hasn't been very good for a while now.

 

[The Kingslayer]

For goalies... options in order:

1. Gibson with 50% retention
2. Gibson with 45% retention
3. Gibson with 40% retention
.
.
18. MAF for a year
19. MAF for 2 years
20. Campbell
21. Samsonov/Vaneck
22. Husso
23. Shooter Tutor
24. F it, go empty net
25. Kuemper for league minimum
26. @S E P H
27. Kuemper for market rate
28. Comrie

I only like the first option. I know there are injury concerns with ole John but those concerns have been there for Kuemper aswell and Kuemper has missed a bunch of games this run due to injury. End this shit now and solidify that position for a few years.

 

[shadow1]

It would be interesting to see stats from that date on.

Since April 16th (Game 75 for Colorado) until now:

GP	Record	GAA	SV%	SO
19	10-6-1	3.17	0.889	1

Since the eye poke incident:

GP	Record	GAA	SV%	SO
10	6-3-0	3.06	0.880	1

 

[Colorado Avalanche]

Since April 16th (Game 75 for Colorado) until now:

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TH]GP[/TH]
[TH]Record[/TH]
[TH]GAA[/TH]
[TH]SV%[/TH]
[TH]SO[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]19[/TD]
[TD]10-6-1[/TD]
[TD]3.17[/TD]
[TD]0.889[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Since the eye poke incident:

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TH]GP[/TH]
[TH]Record[/TH]
[TH]GAA[/TH]
[TH]SV%[/TH]
[TH]SO[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]6-3-0[/TD]
[TD]3.06[/TD]
[TD]0.880[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Absolutely brutal,

So Francouz must have better stats?

 

[Hasbro]

You sure do love to shoot down other's ideas. What would you do to solve the goaltending for next year? I'm in the Gibson camp personally.

My objection to Gibson I'm not sure he'll be on the market and I think the trade cost will be considerably more than Varlamov.

 

[Bill Peckerskull]

Since April 16th (Game 75 for Colorado) until now:

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TH]GP[/TH]
[TH]Record[/TH]
[TH]GAA[/TH]
[TH]SV%[/TH]
[TH]SO[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]19[/TD]
[TD]10-6-1[/TD]
[TD]3.17[/TD]
[TD]0.889[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Since the eye poke incident:

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TH]GP[/TH]
[TH]Record[/TH]
[TH]GAA[/TH]
[TH]SV%[/TH]
[TH]SO[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]6-3-0[/TD]
[TD]3.06[/TD]
[TD]0.880[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

4 games left. Only needs to go 2-2. Should be doable.

 

[Colorado Avalanche]

4 games left. Only needs to go 2-2. Should be doable.

Damn, if he actually does that, is that the worst goaltending performance to win a Stanley cup since when?

Hah,

Some say Kuemper would be similar to Niemi, but at least Kuemper has good stats from regular season.

 

[The Merchant]

 

[shadow1]

Absolutely brutal,

So Francouz must have better stats?

Much smaller sample size, but...

GP	Record	GAA	SV%	SO
9	6-2-0	2.98	0.900	1

Obviously those aren't good numbers, but keep in mind it's a pretty small sample size. Francouz only lost back-to-back games (in regulation) once this year, which happens to be included in this sampling.