Prospect Info: 2022 - 1st OA] Juraj Slafkovsky (LW) Part 4

[vlady]

What I meant was that generally nobody cares. I am also interested and always watch the WJC. But I'm sure 95% of Slovaks have no idea when the WJC is, who is playing and what the results are. When it's the men's world championship, the pubs are full or people are at home watching matches with their friends. Even people who don't normally watch hockey follow the results and cheer for the team.

Oh, I know what you meant, that's why I used the cheeky smile emoji. You might wanna look up the word "literally".

(again, observe the cheeky smiley face, that last sentence is not meant to be taken at face value, i.e. literally)

I do agree with the sentiment, people in Slovakia don't really give a shit about WJC. It's only hardcore hockey fans like us.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Many fans say the same thing about new GM regimes across sports and 90% of them are left disappointed. I was in grad school when Buffalo started their rebuild with so much fanfare… my classmate was a die hard Sabres fan and he was so stoked. Blessed him.

At this point I find no reason to implicitly trust a rookie GM, rookie head coach, but I understand if other fans do so it’s not a big fight worth having. Just don’t give me (us) grief for not sharing in your optimism…. At least not until they give us certain evidence of their ability to develop high end playmaking talent.

If I were a Senators fan I would be out of line for doubting Dorion’s drafting and development whereas it feels to me that Habs fans are out of line trusting the Habs’ drafting and development.

I think Gorton/Hughes/MSL know of the past failures and they are clearly going to look at better development. The real question here or dilemma is what you think is best as a fan (outside looking in) vs what our management thinks. Remember, they are around them and see them in practice way more than us.

Gorton has Hughes blind spot covered. It's how Molson structured it. Very smart.

MSL knows a lot about player development. Saying he is a rookie coach and you don't trust him as a result is a weird spin. The rookie part is in game action and line matching. Systems type challenges. What is best for a young player has nothing to do with him being a rookie coach. You would be completely blind or living under a rock if you didn't have faith in MSL's ability to groom young talent. Open your eyes bud.

If Slaf busts or is disappointing in terms of #1 OA, it's not because we didn't send him to the AHL at age 18. It will be because he can't overcome the development obstacles and does not grow from age 18-21 years. At the end of the day, it's up to him to figure it out and learn from game/game and coaching behind the scenes. Regardless if it's NHL or AHL. AHL has less stars than NHL but the time and space and physicality is still very solid at that level.

I can only Imagine your focus or angle of obsession if Slaf played AHL and struggled. Why do we assume he will do better in the AHL when there is lack of talent up the middle? Seems weird to me. I remember some fans saying Slaf is a play driver or line driver. Comical. That's not his game.

 

[Habs Halifax]

He had the strength and wisdom to ignore the consensus and use his own judgment. For that small act of critical analysis, his tenure to date should be viewed positively.

Agreed. The sad part here is winning the draft lottery when there is no clear cut top line talent. Bob said it... There are several 2nd line type talent in this draft. Not impossible one or a few of them turn into top line talent but that's a reach.

We took the guy that we feel fits our organization needs and someone we can groom to get better and better. At the end of the day, I'm curious to see who stands out more than the other when we look back in 10 years time. Kind of reminds me of the 2012 draft to be honest. It's early though.

2012 draft:
Yakupov
Murray
Galchenyuk
G Reinhart
Rielly
H Lindholm
Dumba
Pouliot
Trouba
Koekkoek
F Forsberg

 

[calder candidate]

Has it ever occurred to people that Juraj Slavkovsky and the Montreal Canadiens WANT him to play in the NHL this year? lol

Everyone so eager to send him everywhere...meanwhile the guys is progressing every game and establishing himself as an NHL player.

We should be rejoicing at this...instead, we want to send him so he can play against inferior competition just to reassure our own insecurities about him.

Wild stuff man.

Never said I wanted him to go… But if he want to go, I’m not going to judge him or think this is red flag… I can see a universe where he is the one wanting to go, the guys 18 and a star, I don’t think he is worried that going to a tourney reprensenting is country for 10days will have cause him to fail to establish himself in the NHL (I’m not)… Insecurity would be going against is wishes… I just don’t see that leading his country against the best U20 player in the world, as the set back that you think it is… maybe he doesn’t even want to go and than there no issues…

 

[Runner77]

It's due to the past failures in development from previous management. Lots of fans are worried it repeats. I said it before and the "development" card was used too much. We were not good in that area but fans doubled down on it.

Who are these fans?

Bringing up how past first rounders were handled by the prior administration is as relevant as evoking the development mistakes by other organizations.

Different actors, different methods and evaluative tools, different drafted individuals and the implementation of advanced techniques via new, avant garde experts constitute their own, unique standards.

If any highly drafted prospect should succeed or fail under the new administration, that should be judged on the basis of this administration’s competence. I don’t see the connection with what some other GM decided years ago.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Agreed with this. I would add that KK was rushed because he was seen as a huge need and thus huge pressure on his shoulders, which is really not the case with Slaf right now, so he can quietly develop without any big expectations for the season.

KK has three big issues.

One is that his stamina is below average. He just can't be an 18 minute guy.

The second is quickness - he does not process the game fast, get his shot off fast, etc.

His third issue is strength/balance, where he cannot outmuscle NHLers.

None of these three issues would have been improved more by playing weaker players than by being in the NHL.

Time in Laval would not have really helped him get closer to being what the team wanted from him.

But he could have learned the defensive part of the game playing in Laval, so that eventually he could learn to be a decent 3C. The trouble is the team saw him as their future 1C, and once Suzuki came along, 1A/1B C.

Mismatch.

 

[cphabs]

Slaf has 3 goals in 9 games… on “ our” 4th line:

 

[ReHabs]

I think Gorton/Hughes/MSL know of the past failures and they are clearly going to look at better development. The real question here or dilemma is what you think is best as a fan (outside looking in) vs what our management thinks. Remember, they are around them and see them in practice way more than us.

Gorton has Hughes blind spot covered. It's how Molson structured it. Very smart.

MSL knows a lot about player development. Saying he is a rookie coach and you don't trust him as a result is a weird spin. The rookie part is in game action and line matching. Systems type challenges. What is best for a young player has nothing to do with him being a rookie coach. You would be completely blind or living under a rock if you didn't have faith in MSL's ability to groom young talent. Open your eyes bud.

If Slaf busts or is disappointing in terms of #1 OA, it's not because we didn't send him to the AHL at age 18. It will be because he can't overcome the development obstacles and does not grow from age 18-21 years. At the end of the day, it's up to him to figure it out and learn from game/game and coaching behind the scenes. Regardless if it's NHL or AHL. AHL has less stars than NHL but the time and space and physicality is still very solid at that level.

I can only Imagine your focus or angle of obsession if Slaf played AHL and struggled. Why do we assume he will do better in the AHL when there is lack of talent up the middle? Seems weird to me. I remember some fans saying Slaf is a play driver or line driver. Comical. That's not his game.

I see a lot of assumptions and wishful thinking. Just admit you have BLIND FAITH in the new guys Molson hired — it’s fine if you do, but don’t dress it up in factoids.

I don’t want Slaf in the AHL btw, not sure where you pulled that out from.

Who are these fans?

Bringing up how past first rounders were handled by the prior administration is as relevant as evoking the development mistakes by other organizations.

Different actors, different methods and evaluative tools, different drafted individuals and the implementation of advanced techniques via new, avant garde experts constitute their own, unique standards.

If any highly drafted prospect should succeed or fail under the new administration, that should be judged on the basis of this administration’s competence. I don’t see the connection with what some other GM decided years ago.

Bouillon and Lapointe are still here and so is the AHL coach Bergevin hired after Bouchard left. Many of the same scouts too. It isn’t an entirely new administration.

 

[Kents polished head]

KK has three big issues.

One is that his stamina is below average. He just can't be an 18 minute guy.

The second is quickness - he does not process the game fast, get his shot off fast, etc.

His third issue is strength/balance, where he cannot outmuscle NHLers.

None of these three issues would have been improved more by playing weaker players than by being in the NHL.

Time in Laval would not have really helped him get closer to being what the team wanted from him.

But he could have learned the defensive part of the game playing in Laval, so that eventually he could learn to be a decent 3C. The trouble is the team saw him as their future 1C, and once Suzuki came along, 1A/1B C.

Mismatch.

The trouble is when the team decided to pick him over a guy who'll be an hall of famer by the time his career ends.

 

[26Mats]

Slaf has 3 goals in 9 games… on “ our” 4th line:

Yeah that line may be our 2nd best line. Until Slaf moves to another line, I hope they get the 2nd most ice time...

 

[Habs10Habs]

I see a lot of assumptions and wishful thinking. Just admit you have BLIND FAITH in the new guys Molson hired — it’s fine if you do, but don’t dress it up in factoids.

I don’t want Slaf in the AHL btw, not sure where you pulled that out from.


Bouillon and Lapointe are still here and so is the AHL coach Bergevin hired after Bouchard left. Many of the same scouts too. It isn’t an entirely new administration.

I don't think it's so much "blind faith" or wishful thinking. For me personally, it's more they (HuGo) have put together a plan and seem to be following it. The fact that they also seem to be open about their plan with the fans, is also quite refreshing. In the past, we had no idea what direction Bergevin intended to go.

That's normal when new administration comes in. They don't fire everyone. They need time to assess each individual. If they pass, they stay, if not, they get punted. People like Bouillon, Lapointe, Houle, Burrows etc... are probably still being monitored. We'll probably see more changes this off season.

 

[schwang26]

It absolutely is. If there's a greater chance of being injured in one venue or another then that should absolutely be a factor in where any developing player (not just Slafkovsky) gets deployed.

The point is, he's now a professional getting payed. Him going to a tournament close to the middle of the season won't help him and it would be worse if they allowed that and he got hurt. If he got hurt doing what he's paid to do in the NHL, that's different.

 

[417]

Never said I wanted him to go… But if he want to go, I’m not going to judge him or think this is red flag…

It's a red flag for me IF we're talking about how he's currently progressing.

Yes 100%, i'd be asking myself if he wants to be an NHLer or if he wants to play international tournaments for Slovakia.

You got a job, you're being paid to be a Montreal Canadiens. This is where you should want to be.

Of course, if he wasn't playing right now and was a regular healthy scratch like Shane Wright, then i'd totally understand if he would want to be released to go play for Slovakia at the WJCs.

But he IS playing, he has a role on the Habs and they've seemingly got plans for him. So yes, it would be concerning that he'd want to leave under these circumstances.

This would be the same as a player asking his NHL team to leave in the middle of the playoffs so he could go join his international country at the World Championships.

I can see a universe where he is the one wanting to go, the guys 18 and a star, I don’t think he is worried that going to a tourney reprensenting is country for 10days will have cause him to fail to establish himself in the NHL (I’m not)… Insecurity would be going against is wishes… I just don’t see that leading his country against the best U20 player in the world, as the set back that you think it is… maybe he doesn’t even want to go and than there no issues…

Like I said above, I can also see a scenario of him wanting to go to the WJCs IF he wasn't playing here.

But that's not the case.

So it would be odd to say the least.

 

[RationalExpectations]

I don't think it's so much "blind faith" or wishful thinking. For me personally, it's more they (HuGo) have put together a plan and seem to be following it. The fact that they also seem to be open about their plan with the fans, is also quite refreshing. In the past, we had no idea what direction Bergevin intended to go.

That's normal when new administration comes in. They don't fire everyone. They need time to assess each individual. If they pass, they stay, if not, they get punted. People like Bouillon, Lapointe, Houle, Burrows etc... are probably still being monitored. We'll probably see more changes this off season.

To be fair I don‘t think Bergevin knew which way he was going either.

What I like with Hugo is that they have chosen the only way possible for this team : the rebuild mode.

 

[Habs10Habs]

It's a red flag for me IF we're talking about how he's currently progressing.

Yes 100%, i'd be asking myself if he wants to be an NHLer or if he wants to play international tournaments for Slovakia.

You got a job, you're being paid to be a Montreal Canadiens. This is where you should want to be.

Of course, if he wasn't playing right now and was a regular healthy scratch like Shane Wright, then i'd totally understand if he would want to be released to go play for Slovakia at the WJCs.

But he IS playing, he has a role on the Habs and they've seemingly got plans for him. So yes, it would be concerning that he'd want to leave under these circumstances.

This would be the same as a player asking his NHL team to leave in the middle of the playoffs so he could go join his international country at the World Championships.

Like I said above, I can also see a scenario of him wanting to go to the WJCs IF he wasn't playing here.

Sorry you lost me here.

I've read your points, and even though I don't agree with your "red flag" statement. I can see where you're coming from. Your comparison of a player wanting to miss a few regular season games. To one who wants to miss games in the middle of the playoffs. May be just a little over the top.

In the first one, I don't think his teammates would be against it. In the second one, since the players aren't paid their regular salary. I think there's a much greater chance they'd be pissed, if they missed out on some of their playoff bonuses.

Right now it's not known whether he wants to go or not. If he does want to go, I'd hope that Hughes would be open minded and listen to his reasons. Just like I'd hope that Slafkovsky would be open minded and listen to the reasons why the Habs don't want him to go.

 

[Kennerback]

KK has three big issues.

One is that his stamina is below average. He just can't be an 18 minute guy.

The second is quickness - he does not process the game fast, get his shot off fast, etc.

His third issue is strength/balance, where he cannot outmuscle NHLers.

None of these three issues would have been improved more by playing weaker players than by being in the NHL.

Time in Laval would not have really helped him get closer to being what the team wanted from him.

But he could have learned the defensive part of the game playing in Laval, so that eventually he could learn to be a decent 3C. The trouble is the team saw him as their future 1C, and once Suzuki came along, 1A/1B C.

Mismatch.

I am surprised at how some on this board don’t see how much of a special player we have. You can compile data, divide what you want. We’re not in the realm of development. Slaf is better than KK right now.

 

[Runner77]

Bouillon and Lapointe are still here and so is the AHL coach Bergevin hired after Bouchard left. Many of the same scouts too. It isn’t an entirely new administration.

Lapointe’s responsibilities are shared with Bobrov, the latter appearing to be a leading voice. There was a scouting turnover but not scorched earth as it would be unrealistic to expect all that staff to be replaced on a one-year timeline. Bouillon does not hold a critical position.

Houle may not have a long shelf life but he’s also by no means in sole control of development with the new hires (Nicholas, etc.) who are implementing a whole other approach. Plus, current management has created an analytics department and is relying extensively on modern methods, which Bergevin shunned.

The holdovers you mentioned are not final decision makers and hold limited authority, hence they do nothing to counteract the fact of a new, revamped management contingent.

 

[DAChampion]

If he got hurt doing what he's paid to do in the NHL, that's different.

How so? Different insurance rules?

 

[calder candidate]

It's a red flag for me IF we're talking about how he's currently progressing.

Yes 100%, i'd be asking myself if he wants to be an NHLer or if he wants to play international tournaments for Slovakia.

You got a job, you're being paid to be a Montreal Canadiens. This is where you should want to be.

Of course, if he wasn't playing right now and was a regular healthy scratch like Shane Wright, then i'd totally understand if he would want to be released to go play for Slovakia at the WJCs.

But he IS playing, he has a role on the Habs and they've seemingly got plans for him. So yes, it would be concerning that he'd want to leave under these circumstances.

This would be the same as a player asking his NHL team to leave in the middle of the playoffs so he could go join his international country at the World Championships.

Like I said above, I can also see a scenario of him wanting to go to the WJCs IF he wasn't playing here.

But that's not the case.

So it would be odd to say the least.

You are comparing playoff vs. maybe 5 games during the holidays season… Also WC where he could go every year vs. WJC this will be is last chance (WJC is more prestigious than WC, I sure there more kids looking and dreaming of the WJC than the WC). Yes, he is playing more than Wright but he is still the least used FW with no special team, what is that role… Is role will progress but right now getting turn down and that would be the reason, clearly that wouldn’t go over well with Slaf if he is asking it is important to him and because in is head he probably think he should be on the top 6 and is progression has nothing to do with Montreal or how he is used it is him having skills.

Putting the organisation above the team and player is also the kind of attitude that lead to MTL being such a middling team for so long. The player will get their way and get what they want they don’t need MTL, Montreal don’t run the league anymore we needs the player… As long as the requests isn’t unfair to other players or something that is negative to is career, he isn’t doing to party on Epstein island he is going to WJC, I don’t see the issue.

That is also the difference with a regular joe that would give is right arm to be about to play 1game in the NHL and all these guy that are top 500 in the world and they go out to the club and party don’t really care that much about the next game…
If is request is deal breaker for you, don’t be surprise that it could also be a deal breaker on is side… I prefer to manage the relationship…
Is it a good or reasonable resquest maybe not, but is it bad or irresponsible clearly not…
Different person at different time in the life from different background have different dream or want…

 

[417]

Sorry you lost me here.

I've read your points, and even though I don't agree with your "red flag" statement. I can see where you're coming from. Your comparison of a player wanting to miss a few regular season games. To one who wants to miss games in the middle of the playoffs. May be just a little over the top.

Yeah sure, it's over the top but it's really all the same.

Regular season games or Playoff games, get lost in the details if you want, the point is he's a professional hockey player now.

In the first one, I don't think his teammates would be against it. In the second one, since the players aren't paid their regular salary. I think there's a much greater chance they'd be pissed, if they missed out on some of their playoff bonuses.

So you don't think teammates who see a contributing member of their team decide to leave for 3 weeks to go play WJC would be against it or rather, feel some type of way about it (because it's not their decision either mind you)

Again, i'm not talking about a guy whose a healthy scratch. Juraj Slafkovsky is as much of a player on this team as anyone else. So i'm not sure why we're acting like he's barely holding on to a roster spot here.

He's arguably LW2 on this team, perhaps not in terms of usage right now but certainly in terms of performance up to this point.

Right now it's not known whether he wants to go or not. If he does want to go, I'd hope that Hughes would be open minded and listen to his reasons. Just like I'd hope that Slafkovsky would be open minded and listen to the reasons why the Habs don't want him to go.

Doesn't matter if he wants to go or not, it's really immaterial.

Just like it doesn't matter if he wants to be on the 1st line or top PP unit.

The Montreal Canadiens are going to decide what's best for his development when the time comes.

I didn't make up the rules, just how it goes.

 

[schwang26]

How so? Different insurance rules?

It's the circumstances. Wouldnt you be more bummed if he got hurt playing in a tournament ? I'd be questioning why he was there. He's in the NHL now. No need to be playing in a junior tournament.

 

[417]

You are comparing playoff vs. maybe 5 games during the holidays season…

No, i'm comparing being a professional hockey player to being a professional hockey player.

Also WC where he could go every year vs. WJC this will be is last chance (WJC is more prestigious than WC, I sure there more kids looking and dreaming of the WJC than the WC). Yes, he is playing more than Wright but he is still the least used FW with no special team, what is that role… Is role will progress but right now getting turn down and that would be the reason, clearly that wouldn’t go over well with Slaf if he is asking it is important to him and because in is head he probably think he should be on the top 6 and is progression has nothing to do with Montreal or how he is used it is him having skills.

He's already played in a WJC, WC and Olympic.

He's won an Olympic medal and won one of Slovakia's most prestigious awards for athlete's.

This part is just my guess, but i'm sure if he was asked (and i'm sure he probably will be asked), he'd say he'd rather play in the NHL at this point than go play for Slovakia at the WJC.

Again, just my guess and i'm just adding that anecdotally, not for any other reason.

Putting the organisation above the team and player is also the kind of attitude that lead to MTL being such a middling team for so long. The player will get their way and get what they want they don’t need MTL, Montreal don’t run the league anymore we needs the player… As long as the requests isn’t unfair to other players or something that is negative to is career, he isn’t doing to party on Epstein island he is going to WJC, I don’t see the issue.

Sorry, all due respect, I think you got this 100% wrong.

That is also the difference with a regular joe that would give is right arm to be about to play 1game in the NHL and all these guy that are top 500 in the world and they go out to the club and party don’t really care that much about the next game…
If is request is deal breaker for you, don’t be surprise that it could also be a deal breaker on is side… I prefer to manage the relationship…
Is it a good or reasonable resquest maybe not, but is it bad or irresponsible clearly not…
Different person at different time in the life from different background have different dream or want…

He's not asking the Habs to go play at the WJCs, there's no way man lol

There's some serious TSN WJC experience mojo going on here.

I get it, we're Canadian and we grew up watching Team Canada and the WJCs are so amazing and it's Xmas, and all that corny stuff.

But that's junior stuff...when you become a professional hockey player, you want to stay a professional hockey player.

We're not talking Olympics here, we're talking World JUNIOR championships.

 

[ReHabs]

I don't think it's so much "blind faith" or wishful thinking. For me personally, it's more they (HuGo) have put together a plan and seem to be following it. The fact that they also seem to be open about their plan with the fans, is also quite refreshing. In the past, we had no idea what direction Bergevin intended to go.

That's normal when new administration comes in. They don't fire everyone. They need time to assess each individual. If they pass, they stay, if not, they get punted. People like Bouillon, Lapointe, Houle, Burrows etc... are probably still being monitored. We'll probably see more changes this off season.

I understand and acknowledge your position. I simply disagree that I (personally) need to be invested in HuGo until they deliver the goods.

Hiring MSL was inspired and phenomenal. Everything else was more or less predictable. Maybe the Dach trade was a swing.

It’s one thing to have faith that HuGo have a plan (I am sure they have a plan) but if they end up looking like they whiffed on Slaf and Dach (like Gorton might have done with Laf and Kakko) then they’d have wasted a friggin entire year+ and the 1OA.

I don’t think it’s sinful of me to be cautious when it comes to the Habs organization’s ability to develop sexy talent.

 

[Habs10Habs]

Yeah sure, it's over the top but it's really all the same.

Regular season games or Playoff games, get lost in the details if you want, the point is he's a professional hockey player now.

So you don't think teammates who see a contributing member of their team decide to leave for 3 weeks to go play WJC would be against it or rather, feel some type of way about it (because it's not their decision either mind you)

Again, i'm not talking about a guy whose a healthy scratch. Juraj Slafkovsky is as much of a player on this team as anyone else. So i'm not sure why we're acting like he's barely holding on to a roster spot here.

He's arguably LW2 on this team, perhaps not in terms of usage right now but certainly in terms of performance up to this point.

Doesn't matter if he wants to go or not, it's really immaterial.

Just like it doesn't matter if he wants to be on the 1st line or top PP unit.

The Montreal Canadiens are going to decide what's best for his development when the time comes.

I didn't make up the rules, just how it goes.

There's a huge difference between leaving your team during the regular season and the playoffs. I really shouldn't have to explain that to you. For example, have you heard of a player leaving his team when his wife/girlfriend has a baby during the playoffs? Exactly

I'm not saying he should go. I would just hope that it wouldn't be held against him if he would like too. That an open adult discussion would happen between Hughes and Slafkovsky. If it hasn't already happened. Like I mentioned earlier, this could all be pointless. Since no one knows whether he wants to go or not.

Also if the reasons are good behind his decision to go to the tournament. I'm sure they (his teammates) wouldn't hold it against him. In fact, some might be happy because they would get more ice time.

The fact that you're dragging this out in some huge dramatic form is way over the top. Questioning his commitment to the Habs, because he MIGHT want to play in some tournament? If he wanted to leave the Habs and go home and play right now. Then there would and should be red flags. Not for wanting to play in a short-term tournament.

 

[Habs10Habs]

I understand and acknowledge your position. I simply disagree that I (personally) need to be invested in HuGo until they deliver the goods.

Hiring MSL was inspired and phenomenal. Everything else was more or less predictable. Maybe the Dach trade was a swing.

It’s one thing to have faith that HuGo have a plan (I am sure they have a plan) but if they end up looking like they whiffed on Slaf and Dach (like Gorton might have done with Laf and Kakko) then they’d have wasted a friggin entire year+ and the 1OA.

I don’t think it’s sinful of me to be cautious when it comes to the Habs organization’s ability to develop sexy talent.

Then I would get yourself a pillow. Since your ass will be sore from sitting on the fence for the next few seasons.

Seriously though. I can see the reasoning behind your doubts. I have a secret for you. I have some doubts as well. I've been a fan for many years, and have seen previous regimes crash and burn. I'm more open and accepting to HuGo because they aren't following what past administration has done. Also, when looking back at things that Gorton might have done wrong in the past. Hopefully he's learned and won't repeat those mistakes.

Five years from now. I may be sitting here pissed off that I was burned again. Call it a gut feeling. It just feels different now.