Prospect Info: 2022 - 1st OA] Juraj Slafkovsky (LW) Part 4

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No, we do not all know that Bedard and Michkov are at the level of Crosby and Ovechkin. A year ago, Wright was at that level too. There are scouts who now have Fantilli over both of them. So what, we now have THREE generational players in the same draft?

Yeah, "generational" gets tossed around these boards way to flippantly. Most "generational" talents are bigger/stronger than Bedard and Michkov. Nobody refers to St.Louis/Gaudreau/Kariya/Fleury/Gilmour/Oates etc as generational talents despite being some of the top point producers of their generations.

Patty Kane may get some support but it has rarely been a term associated with him. A generational talent is usually named as such due to a combination of uncommon power and skill. Lemieux, Jagr, Ovechkin, Lindros and Crosby (maybe the strongest legs/ass of any player to ever play the game) are prototypical generational talents. In order for a smaller/weaker player to ubiquitously be ordained as a generational talent they will have to create clear separation from the pack at the NHL level for a sustained segment of their career ala Gretzky or to a less obvious extent Orr who was not small by any means and was actually a decent size for that time period with uncanny strength.
 
I’m 99

who cares. It’s not what he does in year 1, it’s how he progresses over his career.
If you don’t think the development process of the Habs should be questioned or evaluated that’s fine, some of us find it interesting to talk about and speculate.
If your reply to my argument is "less than 5 years ago" you are not making the point you think you are making.

Moreover, you are taking 9 games as a sample for Slaf, a very small sample to make an argument against him on his PPG?! You can't compare full seasons with 9 games OK? And again, you have to keep in mind deployment. Slafkovski is not being used in a prime offensive role right now. Beniers was the best center in Seattle from day one, because the team was awful, so he got 20 min deployment and first PP right away. Not the case for Wright right now...

There is a group of strong 1st OA Matthews, McDavid, McKinnon and then the generation before Kane, Crosby, Ovechkin. We all knew Slaf was not that level of a player while Bedard/Michkov are. It happens, it doesn't say anything about Slaf or the choice of selecting Slaf vs. others options or indicate what is the best path to develop him.
The point is obvious enough:
1. if Slaf is one of the lesser players on this list of first picked forwards
2. and if among all of those who joined the NHL immediately after their draft, we assumew his relative position will still be “low”

Then 3. It’s worth questioning and keenly following his development trajectory because we will be in Rushed Wasn’t Ready for the NHL waters

It doesn’t mean that he will bust, but that he will have been rushed.

And yes his PPG will normalize as he has more GP. But you can’t seriously think this is a good way to refute the argument (not even argument—rather a discussion point!).

If you want nobody to talk Slaf until the end of season, I think it’s fair for you to say the same about every other player and topic. If fact there’s nothing to talk about anything, at any time.
 
Why is Carr in Europe despite dominating the AHL?
Ummm......way more money, lower taxes (in some cases no tax), rent free house and car, way less travel etc.

I have plenty of friends who have played professionally in Europe and barely spent a dime as everything is looked after and banked almost the entirety of their earnings.

Now....not all of them were that frugal lol and not everyone got the same deal but there is real money over there especially if you are looking to wind down your pro career and set yourself up for retirement/phase 2.
 
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If you don’t think the development process of the Habs should be questioned or evaluated that’s fine, some of us find it interesting to talk about and speculate.

The point is obvious enough:
1. if Slaf is one of the lesser players on this list of first picked forwards
2. and if among all of those who joined the NHL immediately after their draft, we assumew his relative position will still be “low”

Then 3. It’s worth questioning and keenly following his development trajectory because we will be in Rushed Wasn’t Ready for the NHL waters

It doesn’t mean that he will bust, but that he will have been rushed.

And yes his PPG will normalize as he has more GP. But you can’t seriously think this is a good way to refute the argument (not even argument—rather a discussion point!).

If you want nobody to talk Slaf until the end of season, I think it’s fair for you to say the same about every other player and topic. If fact there’s nothing to talk about anything, at any time.

I didn't suggest that the development process should not be evaluated, not sure where you are taking this stuff. I was commenting on the black/white nature of a lot of your discussion points. And this last one highlights my comment. If I don't think like you, it doesn't mean I'm advocating for the other extreme.

Where I stand: These are human beings, there are facts and there is an "art" to it (ie. it's not all numbers). I think he's clearly physically ready for the NHL, but he will need 2-3 years to grow how he thinks about it to grow his production. Could he do that elsewhere? Yes, the SHL would be the best league for him right now. But that's the problem a lot of prospects are facing, the best environment for them is often out of the realm of the immediately possible.

I've been fully critical of KK's and Chucky's development path, but each player is different. Slaf is years ahead of where these 2 were from a physical pov, he satisfies the physical tests to such an extent that you have to wonder if lower levels would be overall additive to his skill base.
 
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Ummm......way more money, lower taxes (in some cases no tax), rent free house and car, way less travel etc.

I have plenty of friends who have played professionally in Europe and barely spent a dime as everything is looked after and banked almost the entirety of their earnings.

Now....they weren't all that frugal lol and not everyone got the same deal but there is real money over there especially if you are looking to wind down your pro career and set yourself up for retirement/phase 2.
LOL, I don't think Carr earns way more money than if he were a star in the NHL.
 
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LOL, I don't think Carr earns way more money than if he were a star in the NHL.

Who said anything about being a star in the NHL????????

You are moving goalposts.

You asked why would he choose playing in Europe over being a fringe AHL/NHL player and I answered accordingly. I don't want to be a d*ck but I am not sure we should continue this particular debate as you are choosing to deflect rather than admit you are wrong.

We both agree that he should be in Montreal right now, but I am baffled why you want to die on this hill of absolutes?

If you believe that there is a huge gap between 4th line NHLers and top AHLers I don't know what else to say as they are often the same players lol.
 
Just my selfish opinion, but the entertainment of this group far outpaces last year. I see Caufield and Suzuki improving with every game including defense and the knack of puck possession. I feel the excitement every time Slaf has the puck and every time X goes into the corner to bash someone, from watching on TV with crowd reaction I think there are many others that feel the same way! As for the Vets who seem lost, well they are what they are. But for me I have been delightfully satisfied!! Long live the youngsters… all of them.
 
Caufield - Suzuki - Dach
Slaf - Monahan - Anderson
Whatever - Dvorak - Whatever

Get the kid some o-zone starts with players that can actually play
I would put evans/gally on the wing on the 3rd line. 4th line put pure energy guys. The problem is players like dadanov, hoffman, drouin bring 0 skill and 0 energy. It’s pure dead weight. I’d rather players with 0 skill and at least some energy.
 
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He's primarily a playmaker too. It's very soon time to place him with somebody that actually do something offensively. Armia, Pitlick and Evans ain't it.

I certainly would not label him as a playmaker as he still has some tunnel vision and does not map his peripherals very well. He is improving his positioning and spacing which is providing opportunities but he is not much of a distributor if the pass isn't obvious. His passing tool is impressive as he is accurate and he delivers a flat puck but this is currently limited to his field of vision and he gets in trouble when he tries to anticipate the play developing around him.

I am not particularly concerned as he has made impressive progress in enough areas to suggest that he has the capacity to think the game at a higher level.
 
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A few rebuttal points:

a. All 18 yos are not in the NHL because the large majority can't handle it, they are worse than the starters and it makes no sense to sit them in the stands a lot. Even Shane Wright, an exceptional player when younger, has one fluky assist and just ONE shot on goal, in 4.3 minutes per game available, in a MONTH. I get wanting to send Wright somewhere else to play and improve the things that are holding him back from performing in the NHL. Slaf on the other hand has played 11.1 minutes per game available, has 3 goals and 9 shots. More importantly his 3 goals are third on the team, and even with no assists, his 0.33 points per game are tied for 6th-7th on the team among the 15 forwards.

b. Slaf has in fact generated both offensive zone time and scoring chances and has not been an above normal defensive liability. He is top half of the team in both forechecking and backchecking, meaning puck retrieval.

c. It is an absolute myth that players that dominate lower levels will succeed in the NHL. The AHL is full of players who put up many points but can't do so in the NHL, and Juniors are full of players who were over ppg and could not even make a mark in the AHL. Same goes for the ECHL; plenty of good scorers there do zilch in the AHL. Playing weaker players is NOT how you learn to shine at the next level. It is only a necessary evil if you aren't good enough for the next level and want to play hockey.

d. I agree with you that we want a player to be motivated to keep working and not to play too afraid of making mistakes. Neither negative is in fact happening. The coaching staff is clearly not putting too much pressure to be perfect on the young group, Slaf included. Juraj from his comments is clearly very happy with how he is being treated, and is improving constantly. His coach stated publicly within the last week that "Slafkovsky's progression is superb". I see absolutely no reason at this time to switch his mentor from Suzuki to Belzile, his coach from St-Louis to Houle, or his opponents from Brady Tkachuk and Andrei Vasilevsky to Laurent Dauphin and Zachary Fucale.

The actual facts of Slafkovsky's time here do not match up with the (many) situations where demotion is the right or necessary move.
First of all A and C that isn’t my position at all, that was sarcasm because you over simplified that the way to get better was to play against stronger opposition.
A) team send back there player even if they know they will dominate Jr, if it was just about playing against better player they wouldn’t do it… that was my point.
C) Never said that a player that dominate lower level will success but at the same time every player that success did dominate… even if player dominate he can keep improving and not all player keep improving so again it isn’t just about strength of opposition.

like you agreed it is about motivation, pushing your limit and having significant competition those are the key.

I agree that the case to send Slaf to the AHL is a lot less clear cut than sending Wright to the CHL, but Seattle don’t have the AHL as a option, Wright have to go to the OHL, they know that he isn’t ready but they probably feel that the OHL isn’t significant competition for him to improve, and mostly importantly that he isn’t in the right head space to improve, he wasn’t very motivated in is draft year, it probably won’t improve, they are probably trying to work to get him back on the right mindset before sending him back (it has be ruff start for him from dropping to 4th /not playing). Slaf playing 11min it is more than Wright 4min, but he is the least use Player in MTL and that is where I think human Factor come in to play (regardless of coaching) he is outplaying other player but he is still on the bench motivation might waiver, he may subconsciously develop pattern that get more ice time rather progress is game.

playing in Laval doesn’t mean he has to stay there the rest of the season or that the team is going to abandon him or that he will change is whole believe system and sure Suzuki is a great role model, he doesn’t have to be in Mtl to keep thriving toward it and even if Belize is a lesser player he may still teach some thing to Slaf and he is probably a more willing teacher than the Hoffman and Dadonov that are trying to get more ice time…

I can see there is a good case to be made for both NHL and AHL right now. But I see very little risk with him going down to play 20 games in the AHL vs. staying in the NHL where things might start to go south heck even if thing keep going in well it might not be better long term. We are still in the honeymoon phase, I don’t think we have to wait for thing to go south to send him down, that might be even worst (I imagine Seattle would have been better off sending Wright down right away rather than what ever is happening now). Thing are going well we have too many players, it is easy to justify. AHL is significant competition keep everything progressing upward. The fact that Wright and SEattle are dropping the ball is a blessing, imagine media circus if Wright was a ppg player out of the blocks… With Matheson ahead of schedule I would send both Xhekaj and Slaf down to buy time for KH to work something’s out also it might also help the couple of guys in the AHL (like Barron)that should have a role in MTL in the futur. It is very different players but KK, Galchenyuk and Mete all started off pretty well there was the debate but they were progressing early on and they stayed it didn’t work out. Now it doesn’t mean that it is the right decision now especially because of Suzuki and CC, Slaf doesn’t have the pressure of being the savior like KK and Galchenyuk had. I just don’t remember seeing any top end player that progress playing so little minutes for any significant number of game and you might bring up a guy like Thronton who played 4th line C in is rookie season but they also had to trade before he hit is prime and even with his production he never won any significant games. Because development isn’t just about scoring more points or going on to score for a other team.

Like I said there a case to be made for both I just don’t see a history of success with the NHL route when player isn’t getting top 9 minutes. No one will ever know if it was or wasn’t the right decision we will only see the result. My opinion isn’t that if it isn’t 1000% clear cut that he should stay, than he shouldn’t and if there are other benefits like not becoming a UFA at 25yo, being able to send him play in the AHL playoff when we miss NHL playoff, slightly more positive environment with less vet pouting for sitting out games well those are bonus even if they don’t factor in the decision.
 
on pace for about 20-25 goals as an 18 year old, playing limited minutes with plugs for the most part...
Here's hoping Dach gains enough competence to be put back at C at some point (Dvorak traded, Monahan traded, etc)
so that 20# gets to play with the Big 2.
I don't think Slaf gets sent down, he's outperforming several overpaid, embarrassing vets.
 
The tight backhand pass to Armia at the end of this offensive shift is pretty sweet. Just need someone better than Armia taking the shot. Also, shows that Slaf would be excellent on a possession line. Cycling the puck, wearing down opposition, getting puck to net type line with the ability to transition as well.

 
The tight backhand pass to Armia at the end of this offensive shift is pretty sweet. Just need someone better than Armia taking the shot. Also, shows that Slaf would be excellent on a possession line. Cycling the puck, wearing down opposition, getting puck to net type line with the ability to transition as well.



The thing that impressive me more so far from Slaf, he is defensive play. If he continue like that, he is going to be a very good two-way player, he can do everything on ice.

Happy that he got minute on PP, that would help him. Now he is ready to have more 4th line minute. When MSL going to put him up on his line-up 5v5? I don't know, but he is ready to have more ice time and he deserved it.
 
on pace for about 20-25 goals as an 18 year old, playing limited minutes with plugs for the most part...
Here's hoping Dach gains enough competence to be put back at C at some point (Dvorak traded, Monahan traded, etc)
so that 20# gets to play with the Big 2.
I don't think Slaf gets sent down, he's outperforming several overpaid, embarrassing vets.

On pace for a 20+ goal season and zero assists.

And they said he was a playmaking power forward…

:sarcasm:
 
The tight backhand pass to Armia at the end of this offensive shift is pretty sweet. Just need someone better than Armia taking the shot. Also, shows that Slaf would be excellent on a possession line. Cycling the puck, wearing down opposition, getting puck to net type line with the ability to transition as well.



Ship him back to Finland!


JK, yeah he's playing really well and continues to improve each game it seems..
 
He's progressing slowly but it's evident. I'd still say send him to the world juniors to build confidence. This may be the only year Slovakia has a roster that could possibly medal.

I'm sure they will....

If they don't.. we should ship Kent to Finalnd
 
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