2021 Training Camp

[rumrokh]

Blues lines at practice per JR:

Saad-O'Reilly-Perron
Kyrou-Schenn-Buchnevich
Neal-Thomas-Tarasenko
Barbashev-Bozak-Neighbours
Clifford-Joshua-MacEachern
Kostin-Brown

Scandella-Parayko
Krug-Faulk
Walman-Bortuzzo
Perunovich-Mikkola

Binnington
Husso
Ellis

Assuming Clifford is being held on for his veteran presence on the 4th line/extra forward, it looks like battles are Neighbours, Joshua, MacMac, Kostin for those last 2 spots, but it sure doesn't seem like Kostin is going to make it.

I'm still not fully convinced they're going to sign Neal. There's a good chance, and I'm all for it, but I think putting Neal with Thomas and Tarasenko is a final "prove yourself" opportunity. Even more so than Neighbours' deployment with Barbashev and Bozak could be about seeing how Neighbours does down the lineup instead of with the big guns.

Kostin might not have wowed anybody, but he's a more potent overall asset than MacEachern, Clifford, or Brown. Especially when you're going back to the veteran well with Bozak and Neal, I'm not sure you need to go Fully Grizzled. At this point, Kostin is basically Blais, but with more hustle on the backcheck. If he never takes a step beyond that, I still don't see how that's a player you keep off this roster.

Let's say they sign Neal. To me, you keep Neighbours, Joshua, and Kostin. Especially if trading Tarasenko is still an option. They can still send Neighbours back to juniors or Kostin to the minors when Sundqvist is back.

 

[blueper]

I'm still not fully convinced they're going to sign Neal. There's a good chance, and I'm all for it, but I think putting Neal with Thomas and Tarasenko is a final "prove yourself" opportunity. Even more so than Neighbours' deployment with Barbashev and Bozak could be about seeing how Neighbours does down the lineup instead of with the big guns.

Kostin might not have wowed anybody, but he's a more potent overall asset than MacEachern, Clifford, or Brown. Especially when you're going back to the veteran well with Bozak and Neal, I'm not sure you need to go Fully Grizzled. At this point, Kostin is basically Blais, but with more hustle on the backcheck. If he never takes a step beyond that, I still don't see how that's a player you keep off this roster.

Let's say they sign Neal. To me, you keep Neighbours, Joshua, and Kostin. Especially if trading Tarasenko is still an option. They can still send Neighbours back to juniors or Kostin to the minors when Sundqvist is back.

I agree that Neal isn't a sure thing for having a spot.
We have plenty of veteran leadership without Neal or Clifford to carry Kostin and give Neighbours more of look in real games ... 5th year in juniors is far from ideal. And Joshua has looked like he belongs (25 yo, so not a kid).
And like you said signing Neal doesn't guarantee that the others don't make it.
Look, they kind of made room for these young guys in the bottom 6 by trading Sanford and Blais.

 

[SIU LAW]

I think they are signing Neal. I would be pretty surprised if they don’t.

 

[Majorityof1]

People are talking about if the Blues will sign Neal. They may need to ask if Neal will sign with the Blues. Sure, signing for $750k + $1.9M from buyout is a nice payday, but so is $1.9M to sit on your ass at home. Neal might not be willing to sign unless he gets a decent offer on top of his $1.9M. He was scheduled to make $11.5M over the next 2 years. With the buyout he gets $7.67 of that over 4 years. He'd need to make roughly $1.9M a year to break even. We can't give him that. He doesn't really deserve that at this point. But that doesn't mean he doesn't want that.

Other teams can sign him as well. If he impresses during the next game, someone else can step in and offer him more than what we can. He specifically picked us for his PTO when he said he had other offers. So we have the leg up if we do want to sign him. But if anyone offers him more than we can, I wouldn't bet on him taking a $750k offer from us.

 

[BlueDream]

People are talking about if the Blues will sign Neal. They may need to ask if Neal will sign with the Blues. Sure, signing for $750k + $1.9M from buyout is a nice payday, but so is $1.9M to sit on your ass at home. Neal might not be willing to sign unless he gets a decent offer on top of his $1.9M. He was scheduled to make $11.5M over the next 2 years. With the buyout he gets $7.67 of that over 4 years. He'd need to make roughly $1.9M a year to break even. We can't give him that. He doesn't really deserve that at this point. But that doesn't mean he doesn't want that.

Other teams can sign him as well. If he impresses during the next game, someone else can step in and offer him more than what we can. He specifically picked us for his PTO when he said he had other offers. So we have the leg up if we do want to sign him. But if anyone offers him more than we can, I wouldn't bet on him taking a $750k offer from us.

Teams signing players that are on PTOs with other teams is very rare, because they aren’t able to see how that player looks in practice every day. Nobody is going to be in a rush to sign James Neal. He’s on a PTO for a reason and he had 1 notable preseason game so it’s unlikely he’s catching the attention of many teams.

If he had any decent offers over the Summer, he would have already taken one of those. At this point, there’s a good chance that whatever he gets from the Blues is the best offer on the table. Because at this point in his career, winning a Cup may also be his top priority and who knows if any of those other teams that may be interested are even playoff teams.

Edit: Also, one thing about Doug Armstrong is he’s very honest. Neal 1000% knew about our cap situation before agreeing to a PTO. He apparently wants to be here so I’d be very surprised if they had any difficulty signing him whatsoever.

 

[Majorityof1]

Teams signing players that are on PTOs with other teams is very rare, because they aren’t able to see how that player looks in practice every day. Nobody is going to be in a rush to sign James Neal. He’s on a PTO for a reason and he had 1 notable preseason game so it’s unlikely he’s catching the attention of many teams.

If he had any decent offers over the Summer, he would have already taken one of those. At this point, there’s a good chance that whatever he gets from the Blues is the best offer on the table. Because at this point in his career, winning a Cup may also be his top priority and who knows if any of those other teams that may be interested are even playoff teams.

Edit: Also, one thing about Doug Armstrong is he’s very honest. Neal 1000% knew about our cap situation before agreeing to a PTO. He apparently wants to be here so I’d be very surprised if they had any difficulty signing him whatsoever.

Upshall was on a PTO with us when he signed in Vancouver. I know of a few other instances. I think it happens more than you think. It just doesn't make big news because they are fringe players, by definition. As for picking the Blues, it might be because its close to home, or he thought he show better playing with Blues players, or any number of reasons. Maybe a team didn't want Neal a month ago. Now the prospect they expected to make the jump didn't progress, one of their vets lost a step, or one of their forwards got hurt. They suddenly have a spot they didn't expect and Neal is out there potting hatties for the Blues.

 

[Davimir Tarablad]

Don't players need to be released from their PTO before they sign with another team?

 

[Linkens Mastery]

Upshall was on a PTO with us when he signed in Vancouver. I know of a few other instances. I think it happens more than you think. It just doesn't make big news because they are fringe players, by definition. As for picking the Blues, it might be because its close to home, or he thought he show better playing with Blues players, or any number of reasons. Maybe a team didn't want Neal a month ago. Now the prospect they expected to make the jump didn't progress, one of their vets lost a step, or one of their forwards got hurt. They suddenly have a spot they didn't expect and Neal is out there potting hatties for the Blues.

I thought that was the other way around? He was on a PTO with Van then signed with us?

 

[ChicagoBlues]

Don't players need to be released from their PTO before they sign with another team?

Yes

 

[Majorityof1]

I thought that was the other way around? He was on a PTO with Van then signed with us?

You are right. I just looked it up. We signed him off of a Vancouver PTO. Same principle though.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

Don't players need to be released from their PTO before they sign with another team?

If he isn't gonna make the Blues, Army won't stop him from signing elsewhere. And if he is gonna make the Blues, he isn't gonna want to sign elsewhere. He's made a lot of money and gone through a few rough seasons. I suspect he knows what he wants and it's not just $. To earn a spot on a good team that is first class organization, that is why he took our PTO to begin with.

 

[Hinterland]

People are talking about if the Blues will sign Neal. They may need to ask if Neal will sign with the Blues. Sure, signing for $750k + $1.9M from buyout is a nice payday, but so is $1.9M to sit on your ass at home. Neal might not be willing to sign unless he gets a decent offer on top of his $1.9M. He was scheduled to make $11.5M over the next 2 years. With the buyout he gets $7.67 of that over 4 years. He'd need to make roughly $1.9M a year to break even. We can't give him that. He doesn't really deserve that at this point. But that doesn't mean he doesn't want that.

Other teams can sign him as well. If he impresses during the next game, someone else can step in and offer him more than what we can. He specifically picked us for his PTO when he said he had other offers. So we have the leg up if we do want to sign him. But if anyone offers him more than we can, I wouldn't bet on him taking a $750k offer from us.

Totally.
Under normal circumstances I totally would accept a paycut to play...but aged 34, with covid still a thing, I might not do it and call it a career instead. No idea what Neal is gonna do but I wouldn't blame him if, at this point, he's not willing to play for less.

 

[67Blues]

If you can sign Neal for league minimum, then he's a low risk, high reward kind of deal. If he stinks, then you pass him through waivers to Springfield at which he probably knows its time to hang up the skates. If he excels, then he's set himself up for a better contract with another team next season. If he only puts up 30 pts, it is a meh contract, but okay for league min. If one of the kids steps up, letting him ride the pine in the pressbox is easy to do at his cap hit.

Originally I was against Neal getting a PTO, but I've talked myself into it as a low risk deal that can be cleaned up quickly with no real impact to the team if need be.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

Totally.
Under normal circumstances I totally would accept a paycut to play...but aged 34, with covid still a thing, I might not do it and call it a career instead. No idea what Neal is gonna do but I wouldn't blame him if, at this point, he's not willing to play for less.

I don’t think it was a reasonable expectation to get no decent offers and sign a pto contract if you’re not willing to accept a contract around 1M/y. I think he probably would push for a 2y deal, but Neal could see the cap situation coming in the same as the rest of us. PTO guys are mainly guys that just love playing the game and want to do it a little longer.

If he gets a deal, I bet Neal gets 1M/yr for 2 years.

 

[Hinterland]

I don’t think it was a reasonable expectation to get no decent offers and sign a pto contract if you’re not willing to accept a contract around 1M/y. I think he probably would push for a 2y deal, but Neal could see the cap situation coming in the same as the rest of us. PTO guys are mainly guys that just love playing the game and want to do it a little longer.

If he gets a deal, I bet Neal gets 1M/yr for 2 years.

He doesn't lose anything by signing a PTO. Doesn't mean he's willing to throw away money by signing a contract though. With covid and the protocols as well as the uncertainty that comes with it...I wouldn't do it if I was him. Maybe he will but I won't blame him if he doesn't.

 

[Majorityof1]

JR tweet for those that can't see Twitter: "The Blues are heading to Vail, Colorado, on Monday for a team bonding trip/practice before the regular-season opener Oct. 16. Berube said the team will be down to the 23-man roster before leaving Monday. Neal said he’s looking forward to the trip. #stlblues"

It looks like it is just a matter of time before Neal signs. The 23-man roster is going to Vail, and Neal thinks he is going. That leaves 2-3 more forward spots. Neighbours is almost certainly one of them, When asked about tonight's line-up Faulk said "Usually the last couple games of preseason is as close to a lineup as you can get. You try to get dialed in, find some cohesiveness in the end and get going."

Here is tonight's lineup:

Forwards
Brandon Saad - Ryan O'Reilly - David Perron
Jordan Kyrou - Brayden Schenn - Pavel Buchnevich
James Neal - Robert Thomas - Vladimir Tarasenko
Jake Neighbours - Tyler Bozak - Ivan Barbashev
Defense
Marco Scandella - Colton Parayko
Torey Krug - Justin Faulk
Jake Walman - Robert Bortuzzo
Goalies
Jordan Binnington
Colten Ellis

I'd assume Ellis is out, and Husso is our backup. I'd also assume that bottom D pair is not necessarily the one we roll with, but it probably indicates Walman made the team as the 7th D. They don't really need to showcase him more, as he has 2nd most TOI this pre-season amongst our D. He is 2nd to Perunovich, who I also assume makes the roster. This leaves Mikkola as the odd man out. I'd guess the forwards playing today all make the team as well with 2 more as press box duty.

Edit: If someone on less ignore lists wants to throw that lineup up for a GDT, we could discuss more there. It's straight off of Blues NHL.com site.

 

[AjaxManifesto]

The guy likes to play. If it's a cheap deal, welcome aboard Mr. Neal.

 

[Thallis]

If I were a betting man I'd put it on Neal, Neighbours, Clifford, and Joshua as the last 4 with Neighbours being sent to jrs once Sundqvist is ready. Clifford isn't the type of player teams typically let go while on contract and Joshua allows for a swap to roll a heavier 4th line against some of the more physical teams. D is more of a question mark to me since I'm not sure if they're willing to expose Mikkola to waivers in order to keep Perunovich as the 7th defenseman.

 

[rumrokh]

If I were a betting man I'd put it on Neal, Neighbours, Clifford, and Joshua as the last 4 with Neighbours being sent to jrs once Sundqvist is ready. Clifford isn't the type of player teams typically let go while on contract and Joshua allows for a swap to roll a heavier 4th line against some of the more physical teams. D is more of a question mark to me since I'm not sure if they're willing to expose Mikkola to waivers in order to keep Perunovich as the 7th defenseman.

They waived Walman last year. If, at age 25, Mikkola can't clearly beat out Walman, I bet they're willing to expose him to waivers.

 

[BlueDream]

If I were a betting man I'd put it on Neal, Neighbours, Clifford, and Joshua as the last 4 with Neighbours being sent to jrs once Sundqvist is ready. Clifford isn't the type of player teams typically let go while on contract and Joshua allows for a swap to roll a heavier 4th line against some of the more physical teams. D is more of a question mark to me since I'm not sure if they're willing to expose Mikkola to waivers in order to keep Perunovich as the 7th defenseman.

Agree with this.

Tonight’s lineup is telling because it seems that they’ve already made a decision on Kostin and Brown, who probably didn’t show enough.

I think Neal and Neighbours beat those two out as potential top 9 forwards, unless they completely bomb tonight, and Joshua and Clifford beat out MacEachern for the grinder roles.

He doesn't lose anything by signing a PTO. Doesn't mean he's willing to throw away money by signing a contract though. With covid and the protocols as well as the uncertainty that comes with it...I wouldn't do it if I was him. Maybe he will but I won't blame him if he doesn't.

He wouldn’t be in camp if any of that was the case. Neal even admitted he knew we didn’t really have any open spots when he accepted our PTO. All signs point to him wanting to sign here.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

JR tweet for those that can't see Twitter: "The Blues are heading to Vail, Colorado, on Monday for a team bonding trip/practice before the regular-season opener Oct. 16. Berube said the team will be down to the 23-man roster before leaving Monday. Neal said he’s looking forward to the trip. #stlblues"

It looks like it is just a matter of time before Neal signs. The 23-man roster is going to Vail, and Neal thinks he is going. That leaves 2-3 more forward spots. Neighbours is almost certainly one of them, When asked about tonight's line-up Faulk said "Usually the last couple games of preseason is as close to a lineup as you can get. You try to get dialed in, find some cohesiveness in the end and get going."

Here is tonight's lineup:

Forwards
Brandon Saad - Ryan O'Reilly - David Perron
Jordan Kyrou - Brayden Schenn - Pavel Buchnevich
James Neal - Robert Thomas - Vladimir Tarasenko
Jake Neighbours - Tyler Bozak - Ivan Barbashev
Defense
Marco Scandella - Colton Parayko
Torey Krug - Justin Faulk
Jake Walman - Robert Bortuzzo
Goalies
Jordan Binnington
Colten Ellis

I'd assume Ellis is out, and Husso is our backup. I'd also assume that bottom D pair is not necessarily the one we roll with, but it probably indicates Walman made the team as the 7th D. They don't really need to showcase him more, as he has 2nd most TOI this pre-season amongst our D. He is 2nd to Perunovich, who I also assume makes the roster. This leaves Mikkola as the odd man out. I'd guess the forwards playing today all make the team as well with 2 more as press box duty.

Edit: If someone on less ignore lists wants to throw that lineup up for a GDT, we could discuss more there. It's straight off of Blues NHL.com site.

This makes me wonder if Peru gonna start season at Springfield. I can't imagine they want him to sit in press box.

 

[Majorityof1]

This makes me wonder if Peru gonna start season at Springfield. I can't imagine they want him to sit in press box.

My assumption, so take it for what its worth, is that Perunovich has the 3rd pair role locked. He has played far more than any Blue throughout the pre-season. Perunovich has 100+ minutes of ice time and Walman is the next closest at 83. So they are going to rest Perunovich tonight and get their 6th and 7th D some ice time. I assume Perunovich, Walman and Bortuzzo will rotate somewhat frequently though depending on match ups. I could be wrong though too. They may want Perunovich to season some more and learn better D before calling him up later in the year.

 

[The Moose is Loose]

What are the Blues' powerplay units shaping up to look like?

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

He doesn't lose anything by signing a PTO. Doesn't mean he's willing to throw away money by signing a contract though. With covid and the protocols as well as the uncertainty that comes with it...I wouldn't do it if I was him. Maybe he will but I won't blame him if he doesn't.

How is earning 1M throwing away money? He gets his buy-out money regardless of any other contract status. I can't make sense of your comment.

Maybe he feels its not enough compensation for the commitment it would require, and retires. But I think most players want to go out on their own terms and would welcome one more year, even if the pay is not the main motivator. A 1M contract from the Blues at this time would not be an insulting offer. It would be about the best outcome a PTO player could hope for.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

They waived Walman last year. If, at age 25, Mikkola can't clearly beat out Walman, I bet they're willing to expose him to waivers.

That and Mikkola would clear waivers too, most likely. My only hesitation is the other Armstrong poaching the Blues waivers in Arizona.