WJC: 2021 Russia Roster Talk

[snipes]

I would tend to trust Larionov.. He is a bright man and is doing things with a purpose.

I liked his recent interview on TSN. He’s kind of a hockey intellectual and always has been.

I suspected earlier he would be bringing some more Soviet elements and playing styles compared to the way Bragin assembled and coached his teams. Bragin, at least in my view, coached in a very Canadian/NA style (physical, tough, and lots of North/South style hockey). I’m kind of going to miss seeing Bragin behind the bench, I think he’s a fantastic coach that always got the most out of his teams.

In the interview it seemed like Larionov wanted to unleash some more creativity in his players. Creativity on the ice was always a hallmark of those great Soviet teams of the past.

It’ll be interesting to see the differences for Team Russia this year. I think they’ll be a very strong team and Canada will hopefully meet them in the Gold medal game.

 

[Atas2000]

I assume the defense will change at roughly the same time as the forwards as well then? Or will they defer to 12F 6D with separate forward and D units playing on NA ice?

Roughly yes. And it is also not a problem if you play clear cut 4 parings.

And if someone knows how it works it's Larionov. Back in the day everybody would be surprised if the KLM line were out there, but not the Fetisov-Kasatonov pairing.

 

[snipes]

Roughly yes. And it is also not a problem if you play clear cut 4 parings.

And if someone knows how it works it's Larionov. Back in the day everybody would be surprised if the KLM line were out there, but not the Fetisov-Kasatonov pairing.

Exactly, and the groups of 5 in the Soviet system, at least to my understanding, there would be years and years of playing together from the time they were young in some cases.

By playing with 5 man units over years and decades in some cases players develop almost a level of telepathy with their linemates on the ice from repetitive years of playing and practicing together (the Green Unit comes to mind).

Like many things, it’s a different approach than we take in Canada as we tend to play our D men a lot more especially the top 4. However, the Soviets had tremendous success with their system playing this way. Just different approaches to the sport.

 

[Statsy]

If it makes you feel any better, Atlas, Canada puts their practice lines up on the board in no particular order and people lose their sh*t. Whether or not their is a fundamental misunderstanding of the deployment of Russian lines or not, lines in practice, and the order in which they happen to appear on a sheet of paper or a Twitter feed, have little bearing in reality.

 

[Statsy]

I liked his recent interview on TSN. He’s kind of a hockey intellectual and always has been.

I suspected earlier he would be bringing some more Soviet elements and playing styles compared to the way Bragin assembled and coached his teams. Bragin, at least in my view, coached in a very Canadian/NA style (physical, tough, and lots of North/South style hockey). I’m kind of going to miss seeing Bragin behind the bench, I think he’s a fantastic coach that always got the most out of his teams.

In the interview it seemed like Larionov wanted to unleash some more creativity in his players. Creativity on the ice was always a hallmark of those great Soviet teams of the past.

It’ll be interesting to see the differences for Team Russia this year. I think they’ll be a very strong team and Canada will hopefully meet them in the Gold medal game.

I’m also kind of going to miss Bragin, but having Larionov give interviews and provide real insight into the team is a huge plus from a fan’s perspective.

 

[Atas2000]

I assume the defense will change at roughly the same time as the forwards as well then? Or will they defer to 12F 6D with separate forward and D units playing on NA ice?

A big part of the NA system is also that it is mostly shaped for the NHL where you would usually have a 1D or a top paring, then some top4 guys who are little bit of everything and bottom pairing to 7D guys who you'd rather not ice against top opposition. In that setup it seems preferable to give your star defencemen more icetime and play them more than just with your top line. The smaller rink with less skating for D-men makes it all the more possible and effective.

National teams are often different laready by design. For eample a canadian or a swedish best-on-best D would have way more than just two star defencemen. It would be probably smart to maybe give them more evenly distributed icetime too, even regardless of the rink size.

This particular russian D is in the same situation for all the different reasons though. There are no standout sure shot furture supertars on it. So it is probably a good strategy to go with four pairings. At least at the start of the tournament. Maybe when particular players reveal their particlar game shapes throughout the tounamnet, there will be grounds for demotions or promotions resulting in some D-men playing more or less and thus maybe changing the four pairings strategy.

 

[JiricekSaveUs]

I don’t know that Chinakov’s line is necessarily the 4th line.

 

[Atas2000]

If it makes you feel any better, Atlas, Canada puts their practice lines up on the board in no particular order and people lose their sh*t. Whether or not their is a fundamental misunderstanding of the deployment of Russian lines or not, lines in practice, and the order in which they happen to appear on a sheet of paper or a Twitter feed, have little bearing in reality.

Of course there is the ususal hunger for hockey and information in it(especially in Canada with basically no hockey happening now). People are dying to have something to discuss. Obviously it's not your list of SO shooters. On Day 1 every coach will be able to ice completely different combinations.

 

[LeafChief]

I guess it wasn't so silly when I asked if it was possible if Amirov and Podkolzin would play on the same line.

 

[Figgie]

Is Mukhamadullin #1 D for team Russia?

 

[SoundAndFury]

I guess it wasn't so silly when I asked if it was possible if Amirov and Podkolzin would play on the same line.

It wasn't silly to ask but it is quite unexpected they are on the same line. There was really little evidence of that happening, at least from the get-go.

Is Mukhamadullin #1 D for team Russia?

He will probably eat most minutes so I guess one should say yes.

 

[Atas2000]

Is Mukhamadullin #1 D for team Russia?

Read the posts above. This squad has no real 1D or a top pairing. Throughout the tournament someone could get there on merit maybe.

 

[Atas2000]

He will probably eat most minutes so I guess one should say yes.

I can only hope not. If they are on PP a lot maybe. Otherwise, Askarov help us.

I'd rather hope for Knyazev as a joker. He could not play much this season, so it was not possible to properly evaluate his play. But he is older and maybe more steady defensively.

 

[JayZIH]

I can only hope not. If they are on PP a lot maybe. Otherwise, Askarov help us.

I'd rather hope for Knyazev as a joker. He could not play much this season, so it was not possible to properly evaluate his play. But he is older and maybe more steady defensively.

He doesn't have to be that bad because he's still a NHL first round pick. I have seen him play several times and he can perfectly play the role of D1 especially for a short tournament like the WJC. Btw his potential and his defensive contribution of play is clearly superior to Knyazev. Atas2000,are you sure you really know what a good D is? Your judgement is just sassy.

 

[LeafChief]

Is Mukhamadullin #1 D for team Russia?

I can only hope not. If they are on PP a lot maybe. Otherwise, Askarov help us.

I'd rather hope for Knyazev as a joker. He could not play much this season, so it was not possible to properly evaluate his play. But he is older and maybe more steady defensively.

He doesn't have to be that bad because he's still a NHL first round pick. I have seen him play several times and he can perfectly play the role of D1 especially for a short tournament like the WJC. Btw his potential and his defensive contribution of play is clearly superior to Knyazev. Atas2000,are you sure you really know what a good D is? Your judgement is just sassy.

Mukhamadullin is 100% the 1D.

 

[Atas2000]

He doesn't have to be that bad because he's still a NHL first round pick. I have seen him play several times and he can perfectly play the role of D1 especially for a short tournament like the WJC. Btw his potential and his defensive contribution of play is clearly superior to Knyazev. Atas2000,are you sure you really know what a good D is? Your judgement is just sassy.

LOL You are going to tell me about russian defencemen I watch play for years after watching them play "several times". Okay

I also LOVE your argument he is a first round pick. Panarin is sure thing a bad player then because he went undrafted. Also let's forget about age. Mukhamadullin is a promising prospect and all, but he is 18, has huge holes in his defensive play(at least for now and the tournament is now and not in two years) and the pick was a reach.

 

[Atas2000]

Mukhamadullin is 100% the 1D.

He might get the role because this D squad is as bad as usual for Russia. We are back to years when Syomin was the top scoring D-man. You might be wondering who that is. For good reason. Rykov was that a year before. How is he doing? We've had one and a hald odd years with the likes or Romanov, Alexeyev and Samorukov, but that's it. And all of you forget he is 18. He might be on the next level at the next WJC. But for now Russia has to pick four underaged defencemen, because the 2001 class is horrendously weak. Again, Mukhamadullin might get the role because no one else is capable, but that does not mean he is ready to carry this D.

 

[majormajor]

To avoid something being lost in translation, this is how it was in practice:

Goalkeepers: Askarov, Akhtyamov, Skotnikov
Whites: Mukhamadullin, Chistyakov - Amirov, Khusnutdinov, Podkolzin
Blues: Chayka, Kuznetsov - Gritsyuk, Safonov, Firstov
Reds: Kirsanov, Knyazev - Afanasyev, Ponomaryov, Groshev, Abramov
Greens: Bychkov, Shekhovtsov - Spiridonov, Bardakov, Chinakhov, Bashkirov

How would one guess the minutes would be distributed?

Just looking at Chinakhov's linemates it does look like the weakest line to me.

Karjala Cup stats
Chinakhov - 3 pts in 3 games
5 linemates - 0 pts in 3x5=15 games

First of all not Russia, but in Russia. This is about the traditions of deploying defencemen in russian hockey in general.

........................
It is always 5-man-units.

While it is cool that they are doing 5-man units, that doesn't tell me what the distribution of minutes for each unit might be. Any guess? Did the old Red Army teams roll 4 units evenly? Seems unlikely.

And as we know from recent discussions about certain KHL teams, there is very often a unit that plays very few minutes. In fact, less minutes than the lowest 4th line in the NHL.

 

[RussiaOvi]

LOL You are going to tell me about russian defencemen I watch play for years after watching them play "several times". Okay

I also LOVE your argument he is a first round pick. Panarin is sure thing a bad player then because he went undrafted. Also let's forget about age. Mukhamadullin is a promising prospect and all, but he is 18, has huge holes in his defensive play(at least for now and the tournament is now and not in two years) and the pick was a reach.

Is it possible to be a bit positive ? Russia has produced so many great defencemen over the past few years. I do believe you are too critical towards that D squad. Even if he is 18, he can have a big impact against great teams. Also, you probably don't know Knyazev, because in the QMJHL, I saw him playing a really offensive game, so he is not steady at all.

 

[JayZIH]

LOL You are going to tell me about russian defencemen I watch play for years after watching them play "several times". Okay

I also LOVE your argument he is a first round pick. Panarin is sure thing a bad player then because he went undrafted. Also let's forget about age. Mukhamadullin is a promising prospect and all, but he is 18, has huge holes in his defensive play(at least for now and the tournament is now and not in two years) and the pick was a reach.

I agree with you for Panarin which has been able to develop late and is now a great player in the NHL.It's still too early to say if Mukhamadullin will have a pro level impact player. According to you, this squad has always a bad D core, but like every year they succeed to end up at least in the top 4.

 

[Kshahdoo]

I agree with you for Panarin which has been able to develop late and is now a great player in the NHL.It's still too early to say if Mukhamadullin will have a pro level impact player. According to you, this squad has always a bad D core, but like every year they succeed to end up at least in the top 4.

Panarin was better in the KHL at the same age, than Amirov. And Chinakhov. And Podkolzin. And anybody on this squad.

 

[SoundAndFury]

And as we know from recent discussions about certain KHL teams, there is very often a unit that plays very few minutes. In fact, less minutes than the lowest 4th line in the NHL.

A unit never (or almost never) plays less than 10 minutes which is sort of a norm for the 4th line. 13th forwards do.

Regarding the TOI, let's not get out panties in a twist over a couple of line rushes. The best players will play most minutes and that includes Chinakhov. He will most likely be on the 1st PP unit so that's easy ~5 minutes per game on that alone.

Also, 5-man units are not really a thing anymore.

Regarding Mukhamadullin, there is some merit to what Atas is saying but at the same time, that's why he is playing with Chistyakov who is the best guy on the roster defensively. Together they are the 1st pair for sure, just like in Karjala. Is Mukhamadullin the #1? It's kinda "he is if someone has to be" situation.

 

[Statsy]

A unit never (or almost never) plays less than 10 minutes which is sort of a norm for the 4th line. 13th forwards do.

Regarding the TOI, let's not get out panties in a twist over a couple of line rushes. The best players will play most minutes and that includes Chinakhov. He will most likely be on the 1st PP unit so that's easy ~5 minutes per game on that alone.

Also, 5-man units are not really a thing anymore.

Regarding Mukhamadullin, there is some merit to what Atas is saying but at the same time, that's why he is playing with Chistyakov who is the best guy on the roster defensively. Together they are the 1st pair for sure, just like in Karjala. Is Mukhamadullin the #1? It's kinda "he is if someone has to be" situation.

Ummm... you know Igor Larionov is coaching this team, right? I’m here to tell you five man units are 100% a thing that’s going to happen with this team in this tournament.

 

[SoundAndFury]

Ummm... you know Igor Larionov is coaching this team, right? I’m here to tell you five man units are 100% a thing that’s going to happen with this team in this tournament.

Well, he didn't stay in 1980s. You can check Karjala cup player usage.

 

[Caser]

How would one guess the minutes would be distributed?

Just looking at Chinakhov's linemates it does look like the weakest line to me.

Karjala Cup stats
Chinakhov - 3 pts in 3 games
5 linemates - 0 pts in 3x5=15 games

To be honest Firstov in Chinakhov's place looks almost suicidal to me (considering that Chinakhov and Safonov were the only guys who showed some chemistry at Karjala's), I hope it is that way just for this practice and will be reverted back soon.