WJC: 2021 Russia Roster Talk

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I agree with you for Panarin which has been able to develop late and is now a great player in the NHL.It's still too early to say if Mukhamadullin will have a pro level impact player. According to you, this squad has always a bad D core, but like every year they succeed to end up at least in the top 4.
Russia tends to have stellar forwards and recently stellar goaltending too. That usually offsets for the mediocre D. So we are really back to normal this year. Forwards and Askarov will have to carry the load and the D will have to try to not be too big of a liability. And let's not forget our U20 coaching was quite superior to our senior NT coaching even. Here Larionov has some big shoes to fill actually.
 
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To be honest Firstov in Chinakhov's place looks almost suicidal to me (considering that Chinakhov and Safonov were the only guys who showed some chemistry at Karjala's), I hope it is that way just for this practice and will be reverted back soon.
I guess the Canada game will show a lot.
 
Is it possible to be a bit positive ? Russia has produced so many great defencemen over the past few years. I do believe you are too critical towards that D squad. Even if he is 18, he can have a big impact against great teams. Also, you probably don't know Knyazev, because in the QMJHL, I saw him playing a really offensive game, so he is not steady at all.
I prefer realistic over positive. Saying that Russia produced "so many" great defencemen is a reach. Provorov, Sergachyov, that's two great defencemen in my book, not "so many". Romanov remains to be seen. He gets way overhyped too early. I can only hope he remains calm towards the parise and understands he has to work hard to get to where the hype places him already. Samorukov prosgresses nicely, but I do remember how great he looked at U18 level and then way less impressive as an underager on the U20 team. Those 18 year old defencemen might progress full well in the future, but they are 18 now and in this tournament.

As for Knyazev, I probably know a thing or two about a guy from Kazan. The problem is due to the injury there wasn't enough time to watch how he looked this season. He was always an OD. My comment was regarding a 1D on this squad. I am not saying Knyazev is a defensive fortress.
 
He might get the role because this D squad is as bad as usual for Russia. We are back to years when Syomin was the top scoring D-man. You might be wondering who that is. For good reason. Rykov was that a year before. How is he doing? We've had one and a hald odd years with the likes or Romanov, Alexeyev and Samorukov, but that's it. And all of you forget he is 18. He might be on the next level at the next WJC. But for now Russia has to pick four underaged defencemen, because the 2001 class is horrendously weak. Again, Mukhamadullin might get the role because no one else is capable, but that does not mean he is ready to carry this D.
The question was if he is the 1D on this team. Get over yourself.
 
Russia tends to have stellar forwards and recently stellar goaltending too. That usually offests for the mediocre D. So we are really back to normal this year. Forwards and Askarov will have to carry the load and the D will have to try to not be too big of a liability. And let's not forget our U20 coaching was quite superior to our senior NT coaching even. Here Larionov has some big shoes to fill actually.

Agreed. Anyone following Bragin has huge shoes to fill, Russian players would play their hearts out for Bragin. He’s a fantastic coach and one the best at the U20 level for any country.
 
He might get the role because this D squad is as bad as usual for Russia. We are back to years when Syomin was the top scoring D-man. You might be wondering who that is. For good reason. Rykov was that a year before. How is he doing? We've had one and a hald odd years with the likes or Romanov, Alexeyev and Samorukov, but that's it. And all of you forget he is 18. He might be on the next level at the next WJC. But for now Russia has to pick four underaged defencemen, because the 2001 class is horrendously weak. Again, Mukhamadullin might get the role because no one else is capable, but that does not mean he is ready to carry this D.
I can't stand this atas guy at all, but he's right here. Muk has got some great offensive skills but he's a bad defenseman. His decision making is horrendous. He's only Russia's defacto 1D because their D corps this year isn't good.
 
I prefer realistic over positive. Saying that Russia produced "so many" great defencemen is a reach. Provorov, Sergachyov, that's two great defencemen in my book, not "so many". Romanov remains to be seen. He gets way overhyped too early. I can only hope he remains calm towards the parise and understands he has to work hard to get to where the hype places him already. Samorukov prosgresses nicely, but I do remember how great he looked at U18 level and then way less impressive as an underager on the U20 team. Those 18 year old defencemen might progress full well in the future, but they are 18 now and in this tournament.

As for Knyazev, I probably know a thing or two about a guy from Kazan. The problem is due to the injury there wasn't enough time to watch how he looked this season. He was always an OD. My comment was regarding a 1D on this squad. I am not saying Knyazev is a defensive fortress.
Gotta ask, why does Russia struggle with creating elite NHL D?

I'd say currently Russia is producing the best goalies in the world.

Winger's are elite. Definitely a few world class centres.

D seems to not develop at the same level?
 
Gotta ask, why does Russia struggle with creating elite NHL D?

I'd say currently Russia is producing the best goalies in the world.

Winger's are elite. Definitely a few world class centres.

D seems to not develop at the same level?

I don't claim to have the answers, but there are some obvious factors that create the chronic lack of great defensemen the Russian system produces, although it seems to me that there has been a gradual improvement in the number of good D men over the past decade. Part of it is that Russia, like every other country, tends to draw on its traditions in approaching the sport. During the Soviet era, which featured arguably the world's best and most relentless all-out attack, defensemen played only a very minor role, mainly to re-direct the puck out of the defensive zone and back into the attack. As a result, there were only a few truly great defensemen - the great Fetisov and Vasiliev are mainly the names that stand out, that the system ever developed. Defense in the Soviet era seemed to be a concept that they intended to get to eventually, but never actually got there!

So, the deficiencies in defense being obvious, why doesn't someone fix them? In my opinion, an even bigger defect of the Russian system is the absence of good coaches, which is probably fueled by the lack of sufficient investment in the sport at all levels. Despite the size and population of the country, you can still basically count on one hand the number of really top class hockey schools that enjoy sufficient funding and support to develop good coaches and good defensive strategies. Large parts of the country have only sparse or nonexistent hockey organization, still falling far behind in building indoor rinks. Improvement can't just happen on its own, it has to be created.
 
I can't stand this atas guy at all, but he's right here. Muk has got some great offensive skills but he's a bad defenseman. His decision making is horrendous. He's only Russia's defacto 1D because their D corps this year isn't good.
Not sure about that. This guy is still a former first rounder, so his defensive game is not supposed to be so horrible. If you look at this D squad, the vaste majority of the D had success over the past two years by winning the Hlinka Gretzky cup against Canada and by beating team USA at U18. Saying that this D squad isn't good is not the reality in my opinion.
 
Gotta ask, why does Russia struggle with creating elite NHL D?

I'd say currently Russia is producing the best goalies in the world.

Winger's are elite. Definitely a few world class centres.

D seems to not develop at the same level?

I'll quote myself.

We'd have to start with the fact that the soviet school was adequate, but certainly not the best in defencemen development. The soviet league had brilliant forwards the hockey world does not know much about, because they never made the national team and were "just" stars on some weaker soviet league teams. Defencemen on the other hand we've always had just enough for the national team, but I would not say there were many more world class defencemen. Maybe, it's just a thought, it was because originally hockey in Russia started with bandy players. Many other qualities typical for russian players can be traced back to that. Great skating(which is falling off the cliff lately), stamina(as bandy is played on a huge surface without line changes), cohesion(as it is closer to soccer due to the large surface with more systemic player positions, so they need to know exactly what the whole team is playing and where to go to be there for the teammates). While those things are great, obviously defence in hockey is a way different animal. There is full scale physical contact, there is board battles and so on. So great soviet defencemen were always some sort of special cases and not a product of a pipeline. This heritage probably endures to this day. Btw it was the same with goalies. One could argue inviting some finnish goalie coaches to Russia when the RSL and then KHL started helped. Remember when finnish goalies were all the rage? At least I have already saw a finnish article with Finns arguing that Russia drained them and now they fall behind in goalie development:sarcasm:

With defencemen it is the special case scenario. Every once in a while there is just a huge talent you can't really break. Then there is Romanov who is his gradpa's grandson. And he was great soviet defeneman and a coaching legend in the russian leagues. I bet he helped his grandson along the way at all stages and does it now as he is not intrested in coaching for now. There is Provorov who went to the US system at 14 and is basically a product of the US defencemen development system.

The fact remains that there is just from the grassroots on no proper development for defencemen in place. And the KHL btw is most of the time lead by foreign defencemen. So on every level there is no great environment for a defnceman to learn and/or compete. Russia surely needs to change that. Maybe with the most recently installed programs and facilities there will be some improvement there, but it will need time.

As for Devils' prospects I have to say none of them were exactly top rated D prospects, so it's not a revelation they do not pan out at a great rate. As it should be obvious from the above there are actually few russian top prospects on the D for which I would be surprised if they did not become solid NHLers at least.

As for Mukhamadullin, I would not plan the parade just yet either. While he is 18 and those are rarely getting KHL action. He is a former forward. See? Special case. It might work. I just would not put him in the same basket as Provorov or Sergachyov though.
 
I'm a big fan of the Russian hockey now (I definitely wasn't growing up, I was the more typical HF poster where it's my country and everyone else sucks and 'it ain't even close' garbage). I just love how they go like hell against Canada at the Jr's. Watching that U20 team with the first EHT tour was pretty awesome too.

I was surprised when I started reading everyones 'best on best' predictions for the 2022 Olympics and such that the D wasn't that deep. It's making sense now.

Much smaller scale and skill level but Czechs have it similar with the D. If we do have any good ones they are best off leaving for the CHL or Sweden and hopefully get developed right.

I always enjoyed the different narratives.

To my eye (which could be wrong)... it looks like the Russians are encouraged to take risks and try to score the goal. When they lose the puck they'd be labelled as selfish players by the Canadian broadcasters. But I love that approach. The approach I hate is when Canada will take an elite first rounder, toss him on line 4 and tell him to 'dump it in' and 'chase' which is in no way the game that got him on the team.
 
I'm a big fan of the Russian hockey now (I definitely wasn't growing up, I was the more typical HF poster where it's my country and everyone else sucks and 'it ain't even close' garbage). I just love how they go like hell against Canada at the Jr's. Watching that U20 team with the first EHT tour was pretty awesome too.

I was surprised when I started reading everyones 'best on best' predictions for the 2022 Olympics and such that the D wasn't that deep. It's making sense now.

Much smaller scale and skill level but Czechs have it similar with the D. If we do have any good ones they are best off leaving for the CHL or Sweden and hopefully get developed right.

I always enjoyed the different narratives.

To my eye (which could be wrong)... it looks like the Russians are encouraged to take risks and try to score the goal. When they lose the puck they'd be labelled as selfish players by the Canadian broadcasters. But I love that approach. The approach I hate is when Canada will take an elite first rounder, toss him on line 4 and tell him to 'dump it in' and 'chase' which is in no way the game that got him on the team.
I'd love to hear your thoughts in Filip Kral. This probably isn't the right thread for it but you can PM me if you wish.
 
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I'd love to hear your thoughts in Filip Kral. This probably isn't the right thread for it but you can PM me if you wish.
He is doing really well in extraliga. Had a 3 point game today. He was pretty noticeable in the games I've seen. I didn't see a big difference between him and zboril and hajek... 2 players that should get NHL games this year. He might end up being a good later round pick for TO. Let him finish in extraliga... See if he gets some national team love. Then use that to get him on the Marlies and see how it goes. It's really hard to evaluate Czech D in the extraliga as that is at least 2 steps away from NHL. I think Simek made jump from extraliga to ahl to nhl within 2 years but he was older. Zboril and hajek leaving gets him more ice time and increased opportunity.
 
I guess it’s hard to judge by one game against the best team of the tourney on their ice, but out offense looked underwhelming. We could not hold to the puck in the offensive zone, so we couldn’t circle the puck at all, Canada had a serious forecheck going which was causing our defensemen to turn the puck over in the defensive zone.

Chinakhov seriously needs to put the puck in the net. He had three top notch chances.

On the bright side, I like that we limited the number of grade A chances for Canada and we were able to control their top players for most of the game except a part of the second period when we were completely dominated.

Askarov looked very calm and solid in goal
 
I was curious about Larionov's identity as a coach, especially whether he would opt for a finesse-only approach, or whether he would update for a more aggressive defense in the neutral zone and a more intense attack. We got exactly what we should have expected to get. Very non-physical, back into the defensive zone and collapse around the goal, cycle on the periphery in the offensive zone, and more than anything else, seemingly constantly moving the puck backward into the defensive zone to regroup and attack. Canada just sent one forechecker in and let the boys toss the puck and forth, while they collapsed into the neutral zone and pinned Russia down in their defensive zone. I didn't see much in the way of passion, intensity and toughness. If you are going to beat a team like Canada, you have to dislodge the puck from them and use it to score some goals. Maybe they didn't want to reveal new strategies in the preliminary round.
 
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I thought Canada was the stronger team, and that Russia had very little sustained pressure, but on the plus side, Russia really packed it in on defense, and if they had converted on a couple of the grade A chances that they had, would've won the game. In other words, if they can continue to keep it close against a team like Canada, they are just a chance of two away from winning. Don't forget that Levi was very good in their net...time will tell if they actually have a good goaltender.
 
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I thought Russia played well. Yes, they succumbed to the Canadian forecheck at times, but pretty much everyone will. They did well in their one-on-one matchups, refusing to get dangled. Yes they gave up shots, but mostly limited the dangerous ones. Askarov always had the answer anytime a Canadian player broke through.

The Russian attack in this game wasn’t that great, but I honestly think that area of their game may have been a little overrated heading into this tournament. You did see the classic “Russian regroup” in the neutral zone at times but obviously these kids don’t do it as naturally as the old Soviet teams. It’s definitely an element that has been missing from the Russian game for a long time and I’m glad Larionov is bringing it back.

All in all, this was a good warmup for both teams.
 
I thought Russia played well. Yes, they succumbed to the Canadian forecheck at times, but pretty much everyone will. They did well in their one-on-one matchups, refusing to get dangled. Yes they gave up shots, but mostly limited the dangerous ones. Askarov always had the answer anytime a Canadian player broke through.

The Russian attack in this game wasn’t that great, but I honestly think that area of their game may have been a little overrated heading into this tournament. You did see the classic “Russian regroup” in the neutral zone at times but obviously these kids don’t do it as naturally as the old Soviet teams. It’s definitely an element that has been missing from the Russian game for a long time and I’m glad Larionov is bringing it back.

All in all, this was a good warmup for both teams.
It is not Larionov is bringing it back, it is the Russian Hockey Federation bringing it back.
 
I thought Russia played well. Yes, they succumbed to the Canadian forecheck at times, but pretty much everyone will. They did well in their one-on-one matchups, refusing to get dangled. Yes they gave up shots, but mostly limited the dangerous ones. Askarov always had the answer anytime a Canadian player broke through.

The Russian attack in this game wasn’t that great, but I honestly think that area of their game may have been a little overrated heading into this tournament. You did see the classic “Russian regroup” in the neutral zone at times but obviously these kids don’t do it as naturally as the old Soviet teams. It’s definitely an element that has been missing from the Russian game for a long time and I’m glad Larionov is bringing it back.

All in all, this was a good warmup for both teams.
Second Russian goalie was a big drop off from Askarov. The team definitely lost some confidence in their play with him in nets.
 
Second Russian goalie was a big drop off from Askarov. The team definitely lost some confidence in their play with him in nets.
Yes, but probably still the right move to put him in. Obviously, the win means nothing and now they’ve got his feet wet so it’ll be just a little less pressure on him when he plays an actual game. Plus it lets Russia keep Askarov perfect and square in the heads of the Canadian shooters in case of a rematch.
 
Umm...okay. Bragin did NOT try to bring it back. Larionov in his first game as head coach and it’s already back.
My point is that the Russian Hockey Federation (FHR) has changed its development methods & playing philosophy/style and even marketing (comeback of the Red Machine/Красная машина) in recent time. Larionov as head coach is a direct result of that change. So, all ideas coming from the FHR´s front-office, not from Larionov. He is just a man to execute the will of the FHR. If you want to find a personality behind all this, you need to go to Roman Rotenberg & his group.
 

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