WJC: 2021 Russia Roster Talk

[Caser]

Seeing a lot of people say this teams defense is bad... I can't agree with that. This is the age group that stopped the historic team USA in the U18's. And won WJAC (where they won without Askarov) and Hlinka while displaying very solid defense. Kuznetsov should have been a first round pick, Chayka could be a top 10 pick in next year's draft, Chistyakov is a regular in a good team in the KHL, add Knyazev, that should be a very solid top 4 defense. And then after all Mukhamadullin was a first round pick, even though I don't rate him that highly from what I've seen so far.

USA at the U18 was stopped mainly by Askarov, not to mention that from that team there are only Chistyakov and Mukhamadullin on the current D.

Hlinka was won by the 2002 team vs. other 2002 borns, here the competition is a bit older. Not to mention that from that team's D we have 3 guys and that Askarov still had to be great back then. As for the WJAC it is an interesting tournament, but it's doesn't really has the high-end talent.

 

[jvr32]

USA at the U18 was stopped mainly by Askarov, not to mention that from that team there are only Chistyakov and Mukhamadullin on the current D.

Hlinka was won by the 2002 team vs. other 2002 borns, here the competition is a bit older. Not to mention that from that team's D we have 3 guys and that Askarov still had to be great back then. As for the WJAC it is an interesting tournament, but it's doesn't really has the high-end talent.

Fair. But I don't see the defense as a weakness at all.

 

[Yakushev72]

Where does that intel come from, exactly? One thing I'm pretty sure of is that Larionov would likely hold less bias against those that played in North America, considering he did it himself.

Call it bias if you want, but in addition to investing in Russian-based players, these guys are faraway overseas when the little European tournaments are being played. They don't know the coaches, they don't in many cases know the other players, so unless they are noticeably superior players (rare, if ever) they are not going to show enough upside to win a spot.

 

[Fantomas]

Call it bias if you want, but in addition to investing in Russian-based players, these guys are faraway overseas when the little European tournaments are being played. They don't know the coaches, they don't in many cases know the other players, so unless they are noticeably superior players (rare, if ever) they are not going to show enough upside to win a spot.

Exactly. And calling Larionov biased against NA-based players is pretty rich.

The fact is that these kids who leave for North America are frequently out of step and Russian coaches have still been extremely accommodating.

 

[Yakushev72]

Exactly. And calling Larionov biased against NA-based players is pretty rich.

The fact is that these kids who leave for North America are frequently out of step and Russian coaches have still been extremely accommodating.

Exactly right! While there might be some legitimate basis to encourage Russian kids to play hockey in Russia instead of overseas, the fact is the coaches still benefit most personally from winning a Gold Medal. And in the end, if it takes a team comprised 100% of Russians in the CHL to end up on top of the podium, the coaches will gladly do it. But history says that there are far more Russian expatriates in NA who drop off the map than there are those who lead the way to a Gold Medal.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

 

[KaseMeOutside]

Looking forward to watching Askarov haven't gotten a chance to watch him before beyond clips

 

[Atas2000]

Excited for an Amirov/Khusnutdinov/Podz line, should be pretty dominant. I was thinking we’d see Amirov/Podz/Chinakhov all on different lines, as they’re all natural RWs, so a nice surprise.

Abramov as the 5th C is pretty shocking though, thought he’d be the 2C or 3C. I’m guessing 2-4 would be Safonov, Spiridonov and Ponomaryov (in some order)? Hopefully Amirov can impress Larionov more in the coming days, because the 2-4 guys aren’t overly strong, would’ve thought Abramov would make the team pretty easily.

That's what happens when narrative meets reality. People were overrating Abramov just because he plays in NA and some of them watched him a lot and were in awe too much. You can't accuse Larionov of many things, but not of anti-NA bias certainly.

Let's see how it develops, but Safonov had some chemistry with Chonakhov going. That basically makes the top2 center spots occupied.

 

[Atas2000]

Yup, I've heard he also has Knayazev on 3rd pair lmao

Knyazev is an OD. Also you obviously have no idea how russian hockey works. It's so funny to see the people scratching their heads because they try to apply their usual NA/NHL standards and it doesn't work. Mostly exactly with that 1st line, 3rd pairing kind of thing.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

Knyazev is an OD. Also you obviously have no idea how russian hockey works. It's so funny to see the people scratching their heads because they try to apply their usual NA/NHL standards and it doesn't work. Mostly exactly with that 1st line, 3rd pairing kind of thing.

would be interested in hearing how russia deploys their defense

 

[GloryDaze4877]

Knyazev is an OD. Also you obviously have no idea how russian hockey works. It's so funny to see the people scratching their heads because they try to apply their usual NA/NHL standards and it doesn't work. Mostly exactly with that 1st line, 3rd pairing kind of thing.

A little help here.

Our SIM League is doing a WJC Fantasy draft, and I’m not the most knowledgeable guy when it comes to RUS prospects. We are a few rounds in and none of the RUS D have been drafted. Do you have any idea who the probable QB will be on PP1?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Kshahdoo]

A little help here.

Our SIM League is doing a WJC Fantasy draft. We are a few rounds in and none of the RUS D have been drafted. Do you have any idea who the probably QB will be on PP1?

Thanks in advance.

Probably Mukhamadullin. He QBed on his team in the KHL. Another PP QB will be Chaika. At least, it was this way at Euro Tour.

Of course, there is a chance, Larionov will use Knyazev in one of these roles.

 

[Atas2000]

A little help here.

Our SIM League is doing a WJC Fantasy draft, and I’m not the most knowledgeable guy when it comes to RUS prospects. We are a few rounds in and none of the RUS D have been drafted. Do you have any idea who the probable QB will be on PP1?

Thanks in advance.

Too early too tell with certainty. The russian D is not that great this time and there are no clear standouts.
Four 18 year olds which is fairly unususal, but also courtesy of having a weak D class. A guess would be that Mukhamadullin, Knyazev and Chayka might get assignments on the PP as more offensive minded D-men. Two of them are 18. I certainly don't envy Larionov for his D squad. He will have to figure out what works. Especially against stronger teams.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

Appreciate the info, thank you.

 

[Christien]

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

 

[Atas2000]

Just wait for my lengthy post. I was wondering ewhen the good for nothing NA writers would come up with this BS

Research is undiscovered territory for them.

 

[Atas2000]

See, this guy does the same mistake. Applying north american standards to writing up a russian roster. This is what creates misunderstandings and finally DRAMA in the threads. For no reason.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

See, this guy does the same mistake. Applying north american standards to writing up a russian roster. This is what creates misunderstandings and finally DRAMA in the threads. For no reason.

What's missing the 5 man units? Certainly not intending to create DRAMA.. Its a lineup

 

[Caser]

To avoid something being lost in translation, this is how it was in practice:

Goalkeepers: Askarov, Akhtyamov, Skotnikov
Whites: Mukhamadullin, Chistyakov - Amirov, Khusnutdinov, Podkolzin
Blues: Chayka, Kuznetsov - Gritsyuk, Safonov, Firstov
Reds: Kirsanov, Knyazev - Afanasyev, Ponomaryov, Groshev, Abramov
Greens: Bychkov, Shekhovtsov - Spiridonov, Bardakov, Chinakhov, Bashkirov

 

[Atas2000]

would be interested in hearing how russia deploys their defense

First of all not Russia, but in Russia. This is about the traditions of deploying defencemen in russian hockey in general.

I will preface this by quoting myself from the Alexandr Alexeyev thread.

There might often be misunderstanding as defencemen(and forwards) usage is handled differently in the KHL. For example in that game yesterday only one Salavat defenceman played 20 minutes(Larsen who is their undisputed 1D for quite some time now). No other defenceman including Alexeyev averaged more than fourteen and a half minutes. Something like that is fairly usual in the KHL. Most teams used to play with eight defencemen on the large surface, splitting time more equally among them. Nowadays some teams play with 7 or even 6 defencemen like in the NHL, but it's not common.

My point is - if you see a KHL defenceman play under 20 minutes it does not mean he is not playing on the top pairing or in key situations.

There are several factors. From playing on the larger rink derives the tradition of playing 4 defencemen pairings and distributing icetime between them more evenly. It is basicallly fresh legs over skill. Given the level of this year's D squad this is a good strategy. There is no standout 1D or top pairing. Then the so common in NA lines and pairings are not at all common in Russia. If a russian sports site publishes russian rosters it never goes like this



It goes like this

Ларионов о первой тренировке молодежки: «Довольны, что все вышли с карантина. Брака после простоя было не так много»

It is always 5-man-units.

That is not just a tradition. You obviously can't play with 5-man-units with the usual NA roster with only 6 D-men on it. And not only is it in general the intent of russian coaches to create cohesion withn those units, but Larionov explicitly stated that he is trying to recreate some of the soviet traits on his team he was used to as a player. He also stated that he wants to spread the scoring as much as possible(while for now the lineup still has a clear cut top forward line with Amirov-Khusnutdinov-Podkolzin). He has three offensive minded defencemen in Knyazev, Chayka and Mukhamadullin. Two of them are 18 though. Larionov obviously looks to distribute them to different pairings AND also looks for chemistry between his D pairings and forward lines. So when Knyazev is "on the third pairing" in the eyes of the NA writers, he is actually on the unit with a 18 year old(as obviously Larionov does not want to put the younger kids on a pairing together) D man and one of the better snipers on the team in Afanasiev who has 6 goals in 9 games this season in KHL, MHL and on the NT. This has also absolutely no bearing on how many minutes Knyazev will get(as explained in my quote above) or his deployment on the PP.

And yes, I wondered why the otherwise hysterical canadian writers were sleeping on Chinakhov being "on the 4th line". Voila, they did not disappoint. Here they are not not doing any research again and not understanding that what they see is not the typical Team Canada roster.

 

[Llamamoto]

Chinakov on the 4th line is surprising.

 

[Atas2000]

What's missing the 5 man units? Certainly not intending to create DRAMA.. Its a lineup

I am not worried about you creating any drama, but rather those writers who will create another wave of narratives and then we will have lengthy discussions with NA posters who believe those blindly.

I do see Larionov's logic in those units. It is also way to early to disagree as we did not see them in a game. But I understand what Larionov is trying to do. He is spreading the talent. He is keeping the 18 year old defencemen apart. He wants every forward line to have a skilled player with scoring touch.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I am not worried about you creating any drama, but rather those writers who will create another wave of narratives and then we will have lengthy discussions with NA posters who believe those blindly.

I do see Larionov's logic in those units. It is also way to early to disagree as we did ot see them in a game. But I understand what Larionov is trying to do. He is spreading the talent. He is keeping the 18 year old defencemen apart. He wants every forward line to have a skilled player with scoring touch.

I would tend to trust Larionov.. He is a bright man and is doing things with a purpose.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

First of all not Russia, but in Russia. This is about the traditions of deploying defencemen in russian hockey in general.

I will preface this by quoting myself from the Alexandr Alexeyev thread.



There are several factors. From playing on the larger rink derives the tradition of playing 4 defencemen pairings and distributing icetime between them more evenly. It is basicallly fresh legs over skill. Given the level of this year's D squad this is a good strategy. There is no standout 1D or top pairing. Then the so common in NA lines and pairings are not at all common in Russia. If a russian sports site publishes russian rosters it never goes like this



It goes like this

Ларионов о первой тренировке молодежки: «Довольны, что все вышли с карантина. Брака после простоя было не так много»

It is always 5-man-units.

That is not just a tradition. You obviously can't play with 5-man-units with the usual NA roster with only 6 D-men on it. And not only it is in general the intent of russian coaches to create cohesion withn those units, but Lerionov explicitly stated that is trying to recreate some of the soviet traits on his team he was used to as a player. He also stated that he wants to spread the scoring as much as possible(while for now the lineup still has a clear cut top forward line with Amirov-Khusnutdinov-Podkolzin). He has three offensive minded defencemen in Knyazev, Chayka and Mukhamadullin. Two of them are 18 though. Larionov obviously looks to distribute them to different pairings AND also looks for chemistry between his D pairings and forward lines. So when Knyazev is "on the third pairing" in the eyes of the NA writers, he is actually on the unit with a 18 year old(as obviously Larionov does not want to put the younger kids on a pairing together) D man and one of the better snipers on the team in Afanasiev who has 6 goals in 9 games this season in KHL, MHL and on the NT. This has also absolutely no bearing on how many minutes Knyazev will get(as explained in my quote above) or his deployment on the PP.

And yes, I wondered why the otherwise hysterical canadian writers were sleeping on Chinakhov being "on the 4th line". Voila, they did not disappoint. Here they are not not doing any research again and not understanding that what they see is not the typical Team Canada roster.

I assume the defense will change at roughly the same time as the forwards as well then? Or will they defer to 12F 6D with separate forward and D units playing on NA ice?