OT: 2021 Football Thread: Mock Draft SZN

[sbjnyc]

Yeah I get that, but a second is a second in this case. I have a hard time envisioning Carolina tearing it up next year so it could be a good pick, comparable to this year's.

You just know Sam is going to screw us over now that he's back with Robby. In any event, future draft picks are just not worth what current draft picks are (otherwise they'd have traded a 2026 2nd).

 

[SRHRangers]

You just know Sam is going to screw us over now that he's back with Robby. In any event, future draft picks are just not worth what current draft picks are (otherwise they'd have traded a 2026 2nd).

I disagree with that this time around since this draft had no combine and minimum scouting and has players that took the year off.

I actually prefer the 2022 picks.

 

[darko]

Yeah I think Joe did good here getting what he got for Sam. You really couldn't have expected more. I was saying the past few days I'd be happy with a 3rd rounder and let's call it a day. For Joe to get a 6th this year and a 2nd and 4th next year...ummm I'm sorry that's pretty dang good return for a QB who never has done squat whether it's his fault or not.

OK we move on and now the 95% chance we are taking Wilson has jumped up to 99.99999%. He doesn't have to be Steve Young but Wilson has to be exponentially better than Darnold was in order for this to work out for the Jets and for Douglas to end up being proven right for not making that deal with San Fran.

Yup. That's a good return.

 

[nyr2k2]

I disagree with that this time around since this draft had no combine and minimum scouting and has players that took the year off.

I actually prefer the 2022 picks.

Yeah I think next year is more appealing. We have a lot of picks this year, too. 10 or 11? It's always nice for the payoff to be upfront but the Jets are multiple years away.

When you consider that most people were talking recently about getting a third for him, getting three picks including a second has to be seen as a good trade.

 

[bernmeister]

Future 2nd as good as we could get... well done on that trade Joe.

Got the 2 and a 4 for Sammy.

Prepare for the 4 time Pro Bowler for Carolina

Douglas did very well for himself here. That 2nd rounder next year could be a low 40ish pick and a 4th rounder is almost like a 3rd rounder in the NFL. I didn’t think he was getting 3 picks out of Darnold.

Yeah I think Joe did good here getting what he got for Sam. You really couldn't have expected more. I was saying the past few days I'd be happy with a 3rd rounder and let's call it a day. For Joe to get a 6th this year and a 2nd and 4th next year...ummm I'm sorry that's pretty dang good return for a QB who never has done squat whether it's his fault or not.

OK we move on and now the 95% chance we are taking Wilson has jumped up to 99.99999%. He doesn't have to be Steve Young but Wilson has to be exponentially better than Darnold was in order for this to work out for the Jets and for Douglas to end up being proven right for not making that deal with San Fran.

Been saying 2+4 or 2+5 for a while. Good return, particularly given how the market has recently shrunk.

Good luck to Darnold.

Yup. That's a good return.

glad we are moving on but return was WAY too cheap

We are now forced to Wilson -- okay
but we got zip until SEA 1st
SD + 22 +
for
7 or 8 or 9
was a hope

now we are resigned to the same effin line which = more o the same
mark my words
it won't br pretty

 

[darko]

glad we are moving on but return was WAY too cheap

We are now forced to Wilson -- okay
but we got zip until SEA 1st
SD + 22 +
for
7 or 8 or 9
was a hope

now we are resigned to the same effin line which = more o the same
mark my words
it won't br pretty

You were never going to get 7, 8 or 9. Pipe dream.

 

[nyr2k2]

glad we are moving on but return was WAY too cheap

We are now forced to Wilson -- okay
but we got zip until SEA 1st
SD + 22 +
for
7 or 8 or 9
was a hope

now we are resigned to the same effin line which = more o the same
mark my words
it won't br pretty

ESPN had their insiders rate the deal from the Jets perspective. A-, B+, B, B+, A. It's nice to dream about Darnold having enough value to help you land a top ten, but that's all it is, a dream. They got solid value for him.

 

[NYSPORTS]

glad we are moving on but return was WAY too cheap

We are now forced to Wilson -- okay
but we got zip until SEA 1st
SD + 22 +
for
7 or 8 or 9
was a hope

now we are resigned to the same effin line which = more o the same
mark my words
it won't br pretty

Maybe the Jets should go OL with that 2nd #1 or trade back

 

[17futurecap]

Maybe the Jets should go OL with that 2nd #1 or trade back

OL/CB in whichever order they want should be the second first rounder and early second rounder.

 

[bernmeister]

Maybe the Jets should go OL with that 2nd #1 or trade back

OL/CB in whichever order they want should be the second first rounder and early second rounder.

Arguably would make sense tho lineup has multiple needs, those 2 are greater.

My concern is yes, hopefully they may still get a guy good enuf to be an impact player; however, the drop in talent from Sewell and a close, more versatile second in Slater is high enuf they won't sniff that at 22OA or 2nd round.

 

[bernmeister]

You were never going to get 7, 8 or 9. Pipe dream.

ESPN had their insiders rate the deal from the Jets perspective. A-, B+, B, B+, A. It's nice to dream about Darnold having enough value to help you land a top ten, but that's all it is, a dream. They got solid value for him.

appreciate the fair and honest critique.
won't be the first or last time I disagree w/conventional wisdom

you are moving 1 quantity, not multiples of a commodity
his salary is cheap until next year

if you have to, you hold him
if not enuf at this draft, inevitable injury will get something

but I think a judgment call was made to take less now to avoid any distraction, and I acknowledge there is value in that too.

But even if you added signif to SD + 22OA paying a price to go w/a much better pick, it would be worth it to get a Sewell/Slater now.

Now looking like that is MUCH much mo difficult.

 

[17futurecap]

@bernmeister They did try your suggestion.

The Jets were said to have sought a return besting what the Cardinals got for Josh Rosen in 2019—looking for a second-rounder and a mid-round pick or player. But my understanding is a lot of different concepts were discussed, including one that would’ve sent the 23rd pick and Darnold to Carolina for the eighth pick (the Panthers weren’t going for that).

MAQB: How Panthers and Jets Negotiated Darnold Trade

 

[bernmeister]

@bernmeister They did try your suggestion.

The Jets were said to have sought a return besting what the Cardinals got for Josh Rosen in 2019—looking for a second-rounder and a mid-round pick or player. But my understanding is a lot of different concepts were discussed, including one that would’ve sent the 23rd pick and Darnold to Carolina for the eighth pick (the Panthers weren’t going for that).

MAQB: How Panthers and Jets Negotiated Darnold Trade

You may be right, that prob WAS what happened.

But my point is if "the Panthers weren’t going for that" TODAY, then mindful of the dwindling number of top tier higher prospect QBs available to draft, you say NO to Panthers until CAR dances to your tune.
Make them cave.
Don't you cave.

Our GM compromised, and there are times when reasonable compromise is prudent including as to the best possible outcome.
There are other times when you should stick to your guns.

Darnold's value does not go down until the middle of the upcoming season.
If we get eno0gh for him now, we should move him immediately.
But if it is not enough, we should have held out further.

Who is more desperate?
The Jets, who are denied an immediate 6th rounder now and a 2 and a 4 later [unless they can discount them to move up or add now]?
Or CAR, which would likely have been forced to look at the top of the second tier of QB prospects after [in no particular order] Fields and Lance (and maybe Jaycee Horn)?

It the Jets wanted 8OA for Darnold without a signif add, they should have been rebuffed.
But I wanted SD + 22OA + something signif, maybe NYJ 2022 1st + CAR 2022 2nd involved.

At the end of the day, just like Ryan Strome was 5OA talent, and that is part of his evaluation, so is Darnold 3OA availability.
If this guy was a Tebow level bust, okay, water is wet, he was/is a bust.
But CLEARLY this guy got less than zero help.

bottom line is we didn't get fleeced but in this case I think our GM went for expediency and no distraction over best possible return.
And I would actually have endorsed that if only our OL is not so pitiful other than Becton.

which brings me to....

 

[bernmeister]

....
so, without involving 2OA, what can we offer ATL for 4OA?

Sewell will be gone at 5OA, so our only hope is to see if what ATL wants for 4OA is something we can swallow.
And btw,
if we had Darnold as a sweetener for that deal, that would have upped our chances, providing Falcons with a possible heir to Ryan.

 

[nyr2k2]

....
so, without involving 2OA, what can we offer ATL for 4OA?

Sewell will be gone at 5OA, so our only hope is to see if what ATL wants for 4OA is something we can swallow.
And btw,
if we had Darnold as a sweetener for that deal, that would have upped our chances, providing Falcons with a possible heir to Ryan.

I don't think Darnold has that much value. Some teams see a guy with great arm talent and smarts that was never given a real chance, others see a guy who just doesn't have what it takes to read NFL defenses at the speed needed to be successful, who makes poor decisions and is due a lot of money after this upcoming season. If your team falls into the latter category, there's no amount of "sweetening" you can do, a deal that involves Darnold isn't going to get you into the top ten. If you don't think highly of the guy, you don't think highly of him. And you won't want to give up much, or potentially anything, to acquire him.

As far as your previous point about holding out on Carolina, making them cave--I've now seen multiple reports that Carolina was the only team seriously making a push for Darnold at this point. They were essentially bidding against themselves it sounds like. That only works for so long--I think they did "cave" in offering up a package of picks that no other team was willing to match. If you're holding out for some colossal cave where they literally sell the farm for Sam f***ing Darnold, I just don't think that was ever going to happen.

This is a similar situation to when we moved Bridgewater, and there were a lot of complaints that we moved him too soon, that had we held on to him, more of a market could have developed. That was possible, but it was also possible that the market evaporated for him. A good GM can read the market and determine when the time is right to move the guy. I'm not the biggest fan of Douglas, but I think he timed it right.

 

[bernmeister]

I don't think Darnold has that much value. Some teams see a guy with great arm talent and smarts that was never given a real chance, others see a guy who just doesn't have what it takes to read NFL defenses at the speed needed to be successful, who makes poor decisions and is due a lot of money after this upcoming season. If your team falls into the latter category, there's no amount of "sweetening" you can do, a deal that involves Darnold isn't going to get you into the top ten. If you don't think highly of the guy, you don't think highly of him. And you won't want to give up much, or potentially anything, to acquire him.

As far as your previous point about holding out on Carolina, making them cave--I've now seen multiple reports that Carolina was the only team seriously making a push for Darnold at this point. They were essentially bidding against themselves it sounds like. That only works for so long--I think they did "cave" in offering up a package of picks that no other team was willing to match. If you're holding out for some colossal cave where they literally sell the farm for Sam f***ing Darnold, I just don't think that was ever going to happen.

This is a similar situation to when we moved Bridgewater, and there were a lot of complaints that we moved him too soon, that had we held on to him, more of a market could have developed. That was possible, but it was also possible that the market evaporated for him. A good GM can read the market and determine when the time is right to move the guy. I'm not the biggest fan of Douglas, but I think he timed it right.

general concur.
Some clarification:
Bold: the big $ next season is an option. Sam's team does not have to go there unless it opts to. I suspect they can even decline, and then renegotiate. So the risk aspect of that imo is not extended. However the cost is the cost, and that is a separate issue and you raise a good pt in that regard. Either you see a guy who is gonna eff up at the pro level regardless of talent; or you see a guy with talent who could benefit all the dif from a change of scenery.
I would argue objectively that that small run of competitive games end of last season was just enough to prove that, yes, can't put the team all on his shoulders by himself [few can], but has sufficient tools to win with enough to work with.

Underline: not expecting a ridiculous level cave, but I am saying there is a measure of CAR paying for SD level talent now as opposed to later.
SD is to some extent plug n play.
Who else is available that can step in for CAR as an alternate? Clearly they did not want to develop the best available talent from scratch, while they wanted a guy young enough to build with.
Jimmy G -- too much $, health risk, age. so no.
who else?

Darnold was a good fit.
I admit I could be wrong.
But I think if we made them sweat, and we played ATL as an alternate [albeit an expensive one], they would have caved.

good sharing this chat w/ya

 

[East Coast Bias]

There is no way the Jets were keeping Darnold and drafting Wilson. And everyone in the league knows it. It would be a PR circus and unfair to both kids.

so the Jets didn’t have all the leverage. They had to deal Darnold before the draft or else once they picked Wilson, everyone would have them over the barrel.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

The weapons may be a bit better than what Darnold had and the line couldn't possibly be any worse, but I feel like the Jets are going down the same road, throwing a rookie QB into a team that sucks major ass in most areas. Hopefully at least the coaches are better.

 

[JimmyG89]

This was a pretty good deal for everyone. Don't mind them getting a 2 and 4 next year. Hopefully by September, we're under some more normal conditions for colleges and students aren't dealing with COVID protocols while trying to stand out on the field.

Now next season they have multiple picks in each of the first 4 rounds. If there is any specific player they want in the next draft (or even this draft), they'll have the ammunition to make a move and get their player.

Now it is 100% obvious that Zach Wilson will be their QB, but they will need a backup. I don't think it would be smart to have James Morgan as the only other QB on the roster. I'd like Alex Smith or Nick Mullens. Smith would obviously be a veteran mentor for Wilson and who wouldn't listen to him at this point, with what he did to get back on the field and into the game. Mullens would know the offense and could help in that regard. Also wouldn't be a bad option to have on the field either if needed.

Top 3 picks should be Wilson with either a guard or corner at 23 and 34. Maybe a pass rusher in one of those spots. Definitely want some WR help, possibly with their own 3rd round pick.

 

[NYSPORTS]

Arguably would make sense tho lineup has multiple needs, those 2 are greater.

My concern is yes, hopefully they may still get a guy good enuf to be an impact player; however, the drop in talent from Sewell and a close, more versatile second in Slater is high enuf they won't sniff that at 22OA or 2nd round.

if you win or stabilize a gap it really doesn't matter. Would anybody knock a Wirfs b/c he didn't win the gap better than a Sewell or a Slater? No

 

[SRHRangers]

Jets are in no position to really play the need card.

23ov, 34, and the 2 3s should go BPA.

For example, if the Notre Dame LB is there, he's in play because of the hybrid game he will play in a Saleh system.

 

[darko]

The weapons may be a bit better than what Darnold had and the line couldn't possibly be any worse, but I feel like the Jets are going down the same road, throwing a rookie QB into a team that sucks major ass in most areas. Hopefully at least the coaches are better.

Which is why I don't think Wilson should play straight away. If you grab someone like Mullens (as suggested by Jimmy) you start him.

 

[darko]

....
so, without involving 2OA, what can we offer ATL for 4OA?

Sewell will be gone at 5OA, so our only hope is to see if what ATL wants for 4OA is something we can swallow.
And btw,
if we had Darnold as a sweetener for that deal, that would have upped our chances, providing Falcons with a possible heir to Ryan.

Nothing.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Which is why I don't think Wilson should play straight away. If you grab someone like Mullens (as suggested by Jimmy) you start him.

Yeah def, let some poor veteran start the season

 

[bernmeister]

Nothing.

unfortunately you maybe right

anyone else?