2021-22 Utica Comets and ECHL thread - part V

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Jason MacIsaac

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Well, I was wrong about Kevin Dineen. This team was much more crisp in the first 20 games. I am starting to think he was able to implement his system quicker than the competition. The Comets look disjoined in all zones. They don't support one another. I am not confident he is an NHL coach at all.
 
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Emperoreddy

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Well, I was wrong about Kevin Dineen. This team was much more crisp in the first 20 games. I am starting to think he was able to implement his system quicker than the competition. The Comets look disjoined in all zones. They don't support one another. I am not confident he is an NHL coach at all.

Organization needs new systems top to bottom.
 
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Hockey Sports Fan

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Well, I was wrong about Kevin Dineen. This team was much more crisp in the first 20 games. I am starting to think he was able to implement his system quicker than the competition. The Comets look disjoined in all zones. They don't support one another. I am not confident he is an NHL coach at all.
Is it typical that the NHL teams' systems have some influence on the AHL, or not really? Cuz it really sounds like there's a lot of similarity between the two. Obviously it's entirely possible that Ruff and Dineen just aren't great coaches.
 

Devils731

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Is it typical that the NHL teams' systems have some influence on the AHL, or not really? Cuz it really sounds like there's a lot of similarity between the two. Obviously it's entirely possible that Ruff and Dineen just aren't great coaches.
It’s pretty normally to run the same systems at both levels. That way guys being called up understand what they’re doing in the system.
 
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Guttersniped

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Well, I was wrong about Kevin Dineen. This team was much more crisp in the first 20 games. I am starting to think he was able to implement his system quicker than the competition. The Comets look disjoined in all zones. They don't support one another. I am not confident he is an NHL coach at all.
They need centers, they traded Schnarr and Gauthier is injured. Those losses exacerbated a major weakness they started the season with.

I don’t believe De Leo even played center with the Gulls. Flynn is C/W too, and he’s certainly not a two-way center (and looking his age). Schmelzer works hard but he’s more a bottom six center (and has been dealing with injuries).

They aren’t overflowing with PPQ either so Walsh being out doesn’t help.
 

Tao Jersey Jones

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Thompson got knocked around all night. Certainly no Tage.

There's no roster limit in the AHL. Utica went into the postseason with three rookie goalies. That should have been addressed as soon as Wedgewood was claimed. Zane McIntyre could have been signed to an NHL contract from Tucson. Guerin scooped Fitz on that one, but there were options for experienced keepers out there. It was almost like Fitz couldn't fix the AHL G situation without being called out for not fixing the NJD G situation or something. I would have liked a vet defensive shut down D too. Rochester traded for Mason Jobst for Mark Alt at the deadline. Yeah Utica was at the vet limit, but with Gauthier injured and Schnarr traded the Comets were left thin down the middle. A vet D or C could be playing in Freddy's spot.

Mukh was -3 last night and even tonight because he was on for the Quinn own goal.
 

Tao Jersey Jones

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And another thing.

Utica could have eliminated Rochester from the playoffs in their last regular season meeting. Yes, Bahl, Okhotiuk, Walsh, Zetterlund, Foote, and Holtz were unavailable, but Daws and Schmid both gave up four each in the same game to the Americans.

3a1060f0b5a53f3ab880bf3de222710e51-31-the-americans-train.rsquare.w700.jpg
 

Bad Goalie

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Every odd man chance with three Amerks they seem to get a pass to an open player for a close in chance. The same situation for the Comets sees the puck carrier end up on the boards and shoots it himself and the rebound ends uip with an Amerk.

The Amerks have plans on their breaks and they use the plans to create offense against any move the Comets make. One slides behind the puck carrier and shoots on a drop pass when a Comet challenges the puck carrier. No challenge? One moves straight to the net. The other either shoots or deals it off to the 3rd guys outside the circle. Either way a shot is wired to the net with a screen and another crashing the net. Tip in, rebound chances, or play the shot as a pass. If none of that is open, there is probably a D-man drifting into the high slot. Still nothing? Pass it back to the blueline where there is always at least one if not 2 toatlly umolested guys waiting for a pass to start things all over again. if that pass gets by the blueline no worry since the Comets ahve all five players below the top of the circle. Just retrieve and come back up with speed ans at least 2 guys to pass off to at the Blueline with a 2 on 1 against whom ever challeges the puck handler.

The Comets have no such semblance of an actual planned offense. They play it by ear and in the playoffs that has ended with multiple turnovers or one shot and done.
 
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My3Sons

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NJ hasn’t done all that much to help Utica these playoffs. I would also suggest that shoehorning Mukhamadullin into the lineup with minimal practice for the toughest games of the year suggests to me the look at him is a priority when I’m not sure it should be right now as curious as we may be about him. Hopefully the kids can rally. I also hope that NJ brass realizes this goes deeper than just having young players and the team’s structure needs to be overhauled.
 
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Triumph

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Thompson got knocked around all night. Certainly no Tage.

There's no roster limit in the AHL. Utica went into the postseason with three rookie goalies. That should have been addressed as soon as Wedgewood was claimed. Zane McIntyre could have been signed to an NHL contract from Tucson. Guerin scooped Fitz on that one, but there were options for experienced keepers out there. It was almost like Fitz couldn't fix the AHL G situation without being called out for not fixing the NJD G situation or something. I would have liked a vet defensive shut down D too. Rochester traded for Mason Jobst for Mark Alt at the deadline. Yeah Utica was at the vet limit, but with Gauthier injured and Schnarr traded the Comets were left thin down the middle. A vet D or C could be playing in Freddy's spot.

Mukh was -3 last night and even tonight because he was on for the Quinn own goal.


Do you honestly think the Devils would be playing a veteran goalie over Daws or Schmid at this point? Yeah, they could've used one when Mitens was being played, but now, no way. It's a development league. It doesn't make sense to use an AHL veteran goalie.

Would've been nice to have Schnarr and the team has to address center at the AHL level next season.
 

Tao Jersey Jones

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Do you honestly think the Devils would be playing a veteran goalie over Daws or Schmid at this point? Yeah, they could've used one when Mitens was being played, but now, no way. It's a development league. It doesn't make sense to use an AHL veteran goalie.

Would've been nice to have Schnarr and the team has to address center at the AHL level next season.
In an AHL elimination game I would take Gillies or Hammond over Daws and Schmid, even just as backups.

Also thought Mitens should have backed up Game 2 so Schmid wouldn't even have to consider going in and just focus on Game 3. If the Comets win the second game then Mitens could have backed up tonight as well. If Mitens isn't 100% from injury, I get not having him back up.

I would start Schmid next game simply because he didn't give up a goal on the first shot of the game two games in row.
 

Triumph

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In an AHL elimination game I would take Gillies or Hammond over Daws and Schmid.

I agree that they might be better goalies, but the goal isn't for the AHL team to win, it's for the NHL team to win. I want Daws and Schmid playing important games too, they're the most important players in Utica, even more important than Holtz and Mukhamadullin. If either goalie had shown themselves as an incapable AHL goalie, then yeah, a vet would've been nice.
 

Tao Jersey Jones

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I agree that they might be better goalies, but the goal isn't for the AHL team to win, it's for the NHL team to win. I want Daws and Schmid playing important games too, they're the most important players in Utica, even more important than Holtz and Mukhamadullin. If either goalie had shown themselves as an incapable AHL goalie, then yeah, a vet would've been nice.
I agree the experience for the goalies is tantamount to Utica winning.

#It'sAllForThis

cut.jpg


🏆

is really #ItsAllForDevelopment.

And I'm fine with that.
 

UticaHockey

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In an AHL elimination game I would take Gillies or Hammond over Daws and Schmid, even just as backups.

Also thought Mitens should have backed up Game 2 so Schmid wouldn't even have to consider going in and just focus on Game 3. If the Comets win the second game then Mitens could have backed up tonight as well. If Mitens isn't 100% from injury, I get not having him back up.

I would start Schmid next game simply because he didn't give up a goal on the first shot of the game two games in row.
I agree that Schmid should be the game four starter. Both goalies lost by identical 4-3 OT margins this weekend but at least Akira stopped all of the shots that he was expected to stop. Three of the goals that Nico gave up should have been saved. Daws is struggling right now with his angles and is giving too much net to shoot at.
 
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Bad Goalie

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They need centers, they traded Schnarr and Gauthier is injured. Those losses exacerbated a major weakness they started the season with.

I don’t believe De Leo even played center with the Gulls. Flynn is C/W too, and he’s certainly not a two-way center (and looking his age). Schmelzer works hard but he’s more a bottom six center (and has been dealing with injuries).

They aren’t overflowing with PPQ either so Walsh being out doesn’t help.

If you recall, I was harping for centers for the entire preseason and into the 1st half ot the year before I just quit. I said all along they were weak in the middle. Real good wingers fall off the track in tough contests when paired with weak centers that can't make plays. Schmelzer, Talvitie, Flynn, Schnarr, and Gauthier, when he arrived, were all bottom 6 centers.

You left Boqvist out of your first sentence.

Boqvist went up and never looked back.
Schnarr was traded for garbage. Even with the weakness they had down the middle, Schnarr basically spent his time here as the #4 center and eventually moved into the #3 spot, and did get a few top 6 games, but was demoted because he didn't do well with them. Instead Deleo started getting games in the middle and when it became clear there was no other solution that could work between the top guys, he stayed there.

A top Calder Cup contender does not ice a #1 wing at center because none of the others can skate with the best, and then a should be #4 Schmelzer, #4 Talvitie, another should be #4 Flynn, #3/4 Schnarr until traded, and finally an ideal #3 Gauthier forced to play #2 until he went down with an injury. All proved to be nothing more than water treaders or less when asked to play above their skill/talent levels. Gauthier at #2 was the exception, but obviously not a real #2. Greer was his lifesaver. The 2 worked like a machine with rebuilt parts and their PK pairing became unplanned offense.

With this less than favorable group in the middle the team sunk to a consistent .500 team in the final 3 months. They actually backed into both the Division and Conference Titles while other teams lost to keep them on top. At last, when Gauthier left the mix, the center position finally deteriorated into the mess they have now.

All the Devils posters told me early on to "give it up. The Comets have good centers for the AHL." Apparently most were not actually acquainted with the AHL. The centers were adequate early on and then at half season the skid began and it has never stopped culminating with the weak shit show we now see in the current playoffs.
They tried Thompson early on and then later when he returned and that wasn't a good move. This lack of quality players in the middle has really hurt the production of kids the Devils have considered very good prospects. We see that come to a head in the playoffs. Other than Z, none of the kids have done dick squat. They haven't even looked mediocre. The poor forward play has left more work for the rookie keepers and D-men to handle and their burden has been too heavy to carry on their own in spite of giving a strong effort.
 
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Guttersniped

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NJ hasn’t done all that much to help Utica these playoffs. I would also suggest that shoehorning Mukhamadullin into the lineup with minimal practice for the toughest games of the year suggests to me the look at him is a priority when I’m not sure it should be right now as curious as we may be about him. Hopefully the kids can rally. I also hope that NJ brass realizes this goes deeper than just having young players and the team’s structure needs to be overhauled.

Walsh is hurt so they did need him on the PP. Walsh is also one of the two only RHD on the roster and Muk has experience playing his off-side. His KHL team has had one or two RHD on it’s roster this season. The Russian National teams he’s played on have had zero or one RHD this season and he always is playing on his off-side for those.

If Walsh wasn’t hurt I thought putting Muk in for Vukojevic was a possibility for the 2nd game, he looked real shaky in the 1st game. Instead they put Groleau in for Vuk in the 3rd game.

The team has zero defensive depth after not getting White down for the PO & Jaros getting bought out rather than agreeing to go to our AHL team.

We started the season with a depth problem, and then didn’t trade for or sign FA guys to help fill out the roster. Hopefully the depth will be improved.
 

Tao Jersey Jones

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NJ hasn’t done all that much to help Utica these playoffs. I would also suggest that shoehorning Mukhamadullin into the lineup with minimal practice for the toughest games of the year suggests to me the look at him is a priority when I’m not sure it should be right now as curious as we may be about him. Hopefully the kids can rally. I also hope that NJ brass realizes this goes deeper than just having young players and the team’s structure needs to be overhauled.
"We like our group." - Dan MacKinnon
 
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Guttersniped

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If you recall, I was harping for centers for the entire preseason and into the 1st half ot the year before I just quit. I said all along they were weak in the middle. Real good wingers fall off the track in tough contests when paired with weak centers that can't make plays. Schmelzer, Talvitie, Flynn, Schnarr, and Gauthier, when he arrived, were all bottom 6 centers.

You left Boqvist out of your first sentence.

Boqvist went up and never looked back.
Schnarr was traded for garbage. Even with the weakness they had down the middle, Schnarr basically spent his time here as the #4 center and eventually moved into the #3 spot, and did get a few top 6 games, but was demoted because he didn't do well with them. Instead Deleo started getting games in the middle and when it became clear there was no other solution that could work between the top guys, he stayed there.

A top Calder Cup contender does not ice a #1 wing at center because none of the others can skate with the best, and then a should be #4 Schmelzer, #4 Talvitie, another should be #4 Flynn, #3/4 Schnarr until traded, and finally an ideal #3 Gauthier forced to play #2 until he went down with an injury. All proved to be nothing more than water treaders or less when asked to play above their skill/talent levels. Gauthier at #2 was the exception, but obviously not a real #2. Greer was his lifesaver. The 2 worked like a machine with rebuilt parts and their PK pairing became unplanned offense.

With this less than favorable group in the middle the team sunk to a consistent .500 team in the final 3 months. They actually backed into both the Division and Conference Titles while other teams lost to keep them on top. At last, when Gauthier left the mix, the center position finally deteriorated into the mess they have now.

All the Devils posters told me early on to "give it up. The Comets have good centers for the AHL." Apparently most were not actually acquainted with the AHL. The centers were adequate early on and then at half season the skid began and it has never stopped culminating with the weak shit show we now see in the current playoffs.
They tried Thompson early on and then later when he returned and that wasn't a good move. This lack of quality players in the middle has really hurt the production of kids the Devils have considered very good prospects. We see that come to a head in the playoffs. Other than Z, none of the kids have done dick squat. They haven't even looked mediocre. The poor forward play has left more work for the rookie keepers and D-men to handle and their burden has been too heavy to carry on their own in spite of giving a strong effort.

I don’t know what “all the Devils posters” told you, I can only speak for myself.

I personally said in pre-season that the lack of depth at center, especially the complete dearth of true top line scoring centers, would be a problem for Utica.

I specifically saw a problem with scoring centers. Schnarr was good defensively & at face offs, Schmelzer is a middle six center, Talvitie was likely also going get time as a bottom six center.

The lack of centers started in parent club in NJ so losing Boqvist should have been expected. Fitz claimed that he thought Mercer would be playing in Utica but I have no idea who that would have left to play center in NJ (Zacha, PTO pick-up?).

We needed at least one Ben Street-style replacement for Utica, more likely two, and I wasn’t thrilled with the AHL tweener pick-ups we got for that job, even though De Leo did great for the Gulls and otherwise seemed like an excellent pick-up.

I even did my best to research how much the pick-ups had actually played center (Flynn, Gambardella, De Leo) in the pre-season.

I watched and hoped that we would grab Andrew Poturalski, who was ironically De Leo’s center under Dineen in San Diego, while he sat unsigned until August 11.

We lost Schnarr in a goalie trade we were forced to make and Gauthier is hurt. Those losses hurt. Shit happens. But anyone who put some time into thinking about the AHL team (and many NHL fans don’t) would have seen that having scoring wingers as a strength doesn’t do you a whole lot of good without centers.
 
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