Rumor: 2021-22 Trade Rumors and FA Part V: To Giroux or not to Giroux

[geofff]

Can't you enforce the cap during the playoffs based on regular season AAV?

You could, and maybe that might be the best way. But that would kill the potential for trades at the deadline if you are acquiring a players full AAV.

 

[Avsboy]

You could, and maybe that might be the best way. But that would kill the potential for trades at the deadline if you are acquiring a players full AAV.

Freeze the cap space carried over to the playoffs at the trade deadline. For example, you acquire half of Giroux at $4 million and only that counts towards the playoff cap

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Crouse Newhook Giroux is going to be such a nasty third line.

 

[Hasbro]

Crouse Newhook Giroux is going to be such a nasty third line.

I think Crouse and Giroux are mutually exclusive.

 

[The Merchant]

Getting Giroux or Pavs would be great, obviously. They're no-brainers. But man my faith in our pro scouting is low. They've had, what, one major success since the Avs started competing?

 

[JLo217]

Getting Giroux or Pavs would be great, obviously. They're no-brainers. But man my faith in our pro scouting is low. They've had, what, one major success since the Avs started competing?

I disagree. While they've failed at deadlines, they've done pretty good overall. Frankie, Gru, Burky, Toewes, etc.

 

[forsbergavs32]

I disagree. While they've failed at deadlines, they've done pretty good overall. Frankie, Gru, Burky, Toewes, etc.

Kadri and Girard too. Even smaller pickups like Nieto, NAK, Bellemare, Graves (as much as we shit on him, he was an NHL d-man for us) have been successful. It’s been more of not being able to land the big fish and getting good adds at the deadline that hurt.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Getting Giroux or Pavs would be great, obviously. They're no-brainers. But man my faith in our pro scouting is low. They've had, what, one major success since the Avs started competing?

Ahhhh, what?


Toews, Kadri, Nuke are all huge success stories from our competing years. Then there's lesser success stories that are/were still good moves. NAK this year on waivers. Graves, Burakovsky, Saad....


If anything the Avs Pro scouts are a huge reason for this trams success because our amateur scouting has done very little in terms of filling out our depth charts.

 

[forsbergavs32]

Ahhhh, what?


Toews, Kadri, Nuke are all huge success stories from our competing years. Then there's lesser success stories that are/were still good moves. NAK this year on waivers. Graves, Burakovsky, Saad....


If anything the Avs Pro scouts are a huge reason for this trams success because our amateur scouting has done very little in terms of filling out our depth charts.

Yep, amateur scouting is where we need changes. Need to be able to find a couple players here and there outside of the top 10-15

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Yep, amateur scouting is where we need changes. Need to be able to find a couple players here and there outside of the top 10-15

Yep. Having a good amateur scouting would go a long way in extending our cup window.
Unfortunately there's really no signs of that area getting any better. At least no soon enough to help when we need it the most.

 

[Foppa2118]

Crouse Newhook Giroux is going to be such a nasty third line.

I don't know how much pro rated cap space they'll have at the deadline, but technically they could ice this roster for a full season and be below the cap. Jost in the deal for Crouse. And Compher+ in a deal for Giroux at 50%.

Depending on their deadline cap space, they might also be able to bring in an EJ RD depth D with size that's tough to play against, in case EJ gets hurt again. Someone like Gudbranson at 50% for around $1M. They've got plenty of LD in case Bo can't go.

Joe will want to keep the bonus overages in mind for next year though. Although Bo may not hit much of his, and he takes up the bulk of that $3.4M.

 

[nammerus]

I disagree. While they've failed at deadlines, they've done pretty good overall. Frankie, Gru, Burky, Toewes, etc.

To be fair, they’re also the scouts that haven’t said a word about how awful Jost/JTC/EJ are for the last 3 years.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Getting Giroux or Pavs would be great, obviously. They're no-brainers. But man my faith in our pro scouting is low. They've had, what, one major success since the Avs started competing?

Huh? The Avs pro scouting is unreal. It's the amateur scouting that's dogshit.

 

[The Merchant]

Ahhhh, what?


Toews, Kadri, Nuke are all huge success stories from our competing years. Then there's lesser success stories that are/were still good moves. NAK this year on waivers. Graves, Burakovsky, Saad....


If anything the Avs Pro scouts are a huge reason for this trams success because our amateur scouting has done very little in terms of filling out our depth charts.

Toews was the one major success I was referring to. Kadri was a top pick and a consistently good player, so I wouldn't give them too much credit for that one. I love Nuke as much as anyone, so sure, they definitely get kudos for that one but I wouldn't classify it on the level of a major success. Most of my frustration stems from abject failure at the deadline. It's not really fair to expect them to get to the level of Florida considering they've probably got the best pro scouts in the league, but they've gotta target and make some moves that are comparable. No more subtraction by addition.

 

[Foppa2118]

Toews was the one major success I was referring to. Kadri was a top pick and a consistently good player, so I wouldn't give them too much credit for that one. I love Nuke as much as anyone, so sure, they definitely get kudos for that one but I wouldn't classify it on the level of a major success. Most of my frustration stems from abject failure at the deadline. It's not really fair to expect them to get to the level of Florida considering they've probably got the best pro scouts in the league, but they've gotta target and make some moves that are comparable. No more subtraction by addition.

That's more of a GM critique than a pro scouting critique though.

Girard, Toews, Saad, Burky, Nuke, LOC, Nieto, NAK, and Graves are all pro scouting success stories. MacDermid and Maltsev might even be too.

Feels like Joe will be more aggressive at the deadline this year though.

 

[The Merchant]

Huh? The Avs pro scouting is unreal. It's the amateur scouting that's dogshit.

They've had the highest success rate of any team with 1st rounders over the last decade. No team is consistently pulling good to great players out of later rounds.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Toews was the one major success I was referring to. Kadri was a top pick and a consistently good player, so I wouldn't give them too much credit for that one. I love Nuke as much as anyone, so sure, they definitely get kudos for that one but I wouldn't classify it on the level of a major success. Most of my frustration stems from abject failure at the deadline. It's not really fair to expect them to get to the level of Florida considering they've probably got the best pro scouts in the league, but they've gotta target and make some moves that are comparable. No more subtraction by addition.

That doesn't change the fact the pro scouts identified him as a solution to our Forward depth issues and made a phenomenal trade to do just that. I dont know what else you expect from a pro scouting team? Not every move they make or do is supposed to be this massive home run success story.


And if Nuke isn't a huge success story then your standards are just ridiculously high. They identified a guy nobody else in the league thought was even worth of a base NHL deal. They gave him that opportunity and 3 years later he's one of the best defensive forwards in the entire NHL and on pace to easily hit a career year in offensive production as well while being one of the most important players on this team.


And for the 2nd bolded, what the hell? I fail to see how our pro scouts aren't on the level of Florida's. Makes no sense at all.

They've had the highest success rate of any team with 1st rounders over the last decade. No team is consistently pulling good to great players out of later rounds.

Man dont take this the wrong way but I dont think you have any idea what you're talking about here on the Pro/Amateur scouting stuff.


Look at Tampa Bay, look at Anaheim. They are pulling good players out of later rounds almost every year. The Avs haven't pulled a good player outside of the first round in well over a decade.

 

[The Merchant]

That's more of a GM critique than a pro scouting critique though.

Feels like Joe will be more aggressive this year though.

I hope so. And it's a collective effort, for sure. But nothing was stopping them from paying what Florida did for Bennett last year, for example.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Toews was the one major success I was referring to. Kadri was a top pick and a consistently good player, so I wouldn't give them too much credit for that one. I love Nuke as much as anyone, so sure, they definitely get kudos for that one but I wouldn't classify it on the level of a major success. Most of my frustration stems from abject failure at the deadline. It's not really fair to expect them to get to the level of Florida considering they've probably got the best pro scouts in the league, but they've gotta target and make some moves that are comparable. No more subtraction by addition.

The deadline is a fair criticism. But they got Toews and Bura for 3 2nd's and a 3rd. Graves for a non NHL level player. Nieto for free. Kerfoot for free. Nuke for free. NAK for free. Francouz for free. I mean that's a very very very good track record for pro scouting over a 5 year window.

 

[The Abusement Park]

They've had the highest success rate of any team with 1st rounders over the last decade. No team is consistently pulling good to great players out of later rounds.

You sure about that? Ottawa, Anaheim. Pittsburgh, Tampa Bay, Columbus all find consistent talent in rounds 2+. It's not about finding superstars late in the draft, but finding players who can fill a role in the bottom 6. The Avs literally haven't drafted a useful player past the 2nd round since 2009. That's embarrassing.


Edit: Timmins was a 2nd rounder. But still it took almost a decade for them to develop an NHL player from round 2+.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

The deadline is a fair criticism. But they got Toews and Bura for 3 2nd's and a 3rd. Graves for a non NHL level player. Nieto for free. Kerfoot for free. Nuke for free. NAK for free. Francouz for free. I mean that's a very very very good track record for pro scouting over a 5 year window.

Not to mention, they had a bad deadline last year but in deadlines prior they've had some success as well. Namestnikov was a solid add, one that fit the team well.


I also think last year was a situation where the Avs just missed out on the bigger targets they had in mind and ended up getting stuck with small deals instead. We all know we were one of the four final teams in on Foligno and we had our 1st round pick on the table for him, but he just chose Toronto over us because of his fathers connection.

 

[The Merchant]

That doesn't change the fact the pro scouts identified him as a solution to our Forward depth issues and made a phenomenal trade to do just that. I dont know what else you expect from a pro scouting team? Not every move they make or do is supposed to be this massive home run success story.


And if Nuke isn't a huge success story then your standards are just ridiculously high. They identified a guy nobody else in the league thought was even worth of a base NHL deal. They gave him that opportunity and 3 years later he's one of the best defensive forwards in the entire NHL and on pace to easily hit a career year in offensive production as well while being one of the most important players on this team.


And for the 2nd bolded, what the hell? I fail to see how our pro scouts aren't on the level of Florida's. Makes no sense at all.



Man dont take this the wrong way but I dont think you have any idea what you're talking about here on the Pro/Amateur scouting stuff.


Look at Tampa Bay, look at Anaheim. They are pulling good players out of later rounds almost every year. The Avs haven't pulled a good player outside of the first round in well over a decade.

Like I've mentioned my frustration stems from their TDL activity. I'm not gonna get into the weeds about Nuke because he's awesome, but at the end of the day he is a limited upside guy. He is certainly a success story. Florida has become a powerhouse by poaching the likes of Duclair, Bennett and Reinhart in recent years for value or below-value cost.

If you want to take issue with the Avs late-round picks you should be taking issue with their ass-backwards development of the kids they draft, but that's a whole different conversation.

You can tell me I don't know what I'm talking about all you want, but the Avs' scouts and Joe have failed to adequately supplement their teams for Cup runs at the deadline consistently, which is the reason I have so little faith heading into this one. That is fact. I hope they prove me wrong this time.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

The Compher hate is a little much for me.

The only reason I’d want to trade him is to have the cap space to acquire more talent.

Compher’s got 8 goals and is pacing for 40 points. He’s consistently provided depth scoring in his Avs tenure. This is not a player with negative value.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Like I've mentioned my frustration stems from their TDL activity. I'm not gonna get into the weeds about Nuke because he's awesome, but at the end of the day he is a limited upside guy. He is certainly a success story. Florida has become a powerhouse by poaching the likes of Duclair, Bennett and Reinhart in recent years for value or below-value cost.

If you want to take issue with the Avs late-round picks you should be taking issue with their ass-backwards development of the kids they draft, but that's a whole different conversation.

You can tell me I don't know what I'm talking about all you want, but the Avs' scouts and Joe have failed to adequately supplement their teams for Cup runs at the deadline consistently, which is the reason I have so little faith heading into this one. That is fact. I hope they prove me wrong this time.

And again, how is that any different then what the Avs did with Toews, Kadri, Nuke, Graves?

Its literally the exact same thing.

As for the 2nd bold... You say that as if the Avs have been cup contenders for 5+ years now. We've only made the playoffs 4 years in a row now. The first year we had no expectations of even making the playoffs. The 2nd year we had no expectations of winning the cup.

Really only the last 2 years have we had cup aspirations. And as was mentioned earlier, that first year the Avs did a pretty good job supplementing the team. They added a real solid middle 6 forward in Namestnikov that fit the team nicely.

Last years deadline was a swing and a miss. But again they were in on bigger players. I dont see how Sakic being the one to fail to get the deal done falls on the pro scouts at all. If anything it likely stems from Joe being unwilling to risk the "future" of the team for a win now move.


Dont take this the wrong way because I think you're a solid contributor on these boards, I just think you're way off base here. If there's one thing we should have lots of trust in right now, IMO its the Pro scouts. They've hit it out of the part many times over the last few years and also haven't shown any signs otherwise yet IMO.

 

[The Abusement Park]

The Compher hate is a little much for me.

The only reason I’d want to trade him is to have the cap space to acquire more talent.

Compher’s got 8 goals and is pacing for 40 points. He’s consistently provided depth scoring in his Avs tenure. This is not a player with negative value.

He's not a negative value player. But he's also the worst player on the team I'd argue. The dude bleeds shots and chances against and every line he plays on is significantly worse whens he's on it. He's just a flawed player that isn't good enough to be on a cup contender, especially at his price tag.