Rumor: 2021-22 Trade Rumors and FA Part V: To Giroux or not to Giroux

[The Shermanator]

Watch them free fall to a WC spot and we get them in Round 1.

 

[Bill Peckerskull]

 

[Bill Peckerskull]

Vegas' get out of jail free card. If they dont have to lose any depth to add Eichel in, they're winning the cup this year. No point to even buy.

NHL needs to close the LTIR over the cap in the playoffs loophole, or everyone is going to start cheating the cap to get a big addition and bury someone till the playoffs.

 

[flyfysher]

Well, that's the REAL reason (same with Jost) but I didn't want to say the quiet part out loud.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

NHL needs to close the LTIR over the cap in the playoffs loophole, or everyone is going to start cheating the cap to get a big addition and bury someone till the playoffs.

But will they? Everyone saw Tampa do it and get away with it, but nobody else until now has really even tried to do the same thing. Just seems like a lot of teams aren't actually interested in taking these steps to gain an advantage.


I wish the Avs were willing to go that route.

 

[shadow1]

Assuming no deadline moves, Vegas when healthy:

Pacioretty-Eichel-Stone
Smith-Karlsson-Marchessault
Janmark-Stephenson-Dadonov
Carrier-Roy-Kolesar
Howden/Patrick

Martinez-Pietrangelo
McNabb-Theodore
Hague-Whitecloud
Coghlan/Hutton

Lehner
Brossoit​

That's a stacked team. If the Avs lose to them, my mind immediately goes back to Colorado's bad off-season.

 

[PAZ]

NHL needs to close the LTIR over the cap in the playoffs loophole, or everyone is going to start cheating the cap to get a big addition and bury someone till the playoffs.

There was a proposal back when Chicago did it in ~2013, and ironically Tampa was one of the few teams that voted to close it. The rest of the league didn't want to close the loophole.

I honestly have no ill-will against Tampa Bay/Kucherov, as I do believe he actually had a serious injury and he wasn't 100% when he came back in the playoffs. JBB just made the most of a shitty situation to turn it into a positive.

Vegas is being pretty blatant and brazen about it though, that's the biggest thing that irks me. It's just too convenient and too obvious.

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

NHL needs to close the LTIR over the cap in the playoffs loophole, or everyone is going to start cheating the cap to get a big addition and bury someone till the playoffs.

Everyone but Sakic.

 

[AnimalMother73]

Assuming no deadline moves, Vegas when healthy:

Pacioretty-Eichel-Stone
Smith-Karlsson-Marchessault
Janmark-Stephenson-Dadonov
Carrier-Roy-Kolesar
Howden/Patrick

Martinez-Pietrangelo
McNabb-Theodore
Hague-Whitecloud
Coghlan/Hutton

Lehner
Brossoit​

That's a stacked team. If the Avs lose to them, my mind immediately goes back to Colorado's bad off-season.

Mine goes to Vegas gaming the system. It’s complete bull$&*# if a second year in a row a high profile might layer gets staged on IR then miraculously recovers for the playoffs.

 

[nammerus]

Assuming no deadline moves, Vegas when healthy:

Pacioretty-Eichel-Stone
Smith-Karlsson-Marchessault
Janmark-Stephenson-Dadonov
Carrier-Roy-Kolesar
Howden/Patrick

Martinez-Pietrangelo
McNabb-Theodore
Hague-Whitecloud
Coghlan/Hutton

Lehner
Brossoit​

That's a stacked team. If the Avs lose to them, my mind immediately goes back to Colorado's bad off-season.

Must be nice to have a GM that is always looking to improve their team.

 

[Pokecheque]

But will they? Everyone saw Tampa do it and get away with it, but nobody else until now has really even tried to do the same thing. Just seems like a lot of teams aren't actually interested in taking these steps to gain an advantage.


I wish the Avs were willing to go that route.

No, that's not true, the Hawks did it way back when with Patrick Kane I believe, they were the first to really do it, and the league did nothing.

And really, I don't really think they have to lower the hammer and what not, but as someone else pointed out on Twitter, cut the pretense and go to a soft cap/luxury tax system, where you're free to exceed the cap however you want, but there's a price to be paid for doing so. That would cut out this LTIR bullshit entirely.

 

[shadow1]

Mine goes to Vegas gaming the system. It’s complete bull$&*# if a second year in a row a high profile might layer gets staged on IR then miraculously recovers for the playoffs.

At this point it is what it is. Abusing LTIR, trading players to Arizona, equipment allergies, etc. Getting around the cap has been going on forever, and as @Pokecheque said, the NHL needs to go to the system the MLB uses with luxury tax if they really want things like this to go away.

 

[lonelybadger]

Hear me out:

Trade for giroux in a 3 way to get Arizona to retain cap hit.

In that 3 way also trade Byram, annunnen, helleson/baron, Compher, bowers all the draft picks to get Kessel at 50% and chycrun.

 

[Hasbro]

Hear me out:

Trade for giroux in a 3 way to get Arizona to retain cap hit.

In that 3 way also trade Byram, annunnen, helleson/baron, Compher, bowers all the draft picks to get Kessel at 50% and chycrun.

Zona needs their last retention slot if they have any hope of renting out Kessel. Try Seattle or Buffalo instead.

 

[Avs71]

Summary for those without Athletic??

Avs are in a salary in, salary out situation. Hockey trades make sense from a cap perspective.

He believes, from what he has heard around the league, the Avs will explore Giroux. The front office thinks highly of him, but they will look at other players too.

Being tight against the cap, a team like Arizona retaining salary would have to help.

Avs are happy with Kuemper and Francouz, and Sakic thinks Kuemper has finally adjusted to the team.

Sakic said Kadri is fantastic, and came into camp in amazing shape. He’s been great on and off the ice, and is a big leader.

 

[SaltySkywalker]

It'd be one thing if we were talking middling players, but we're talking big profile, $10 million dollar players (Stamkos, Kucherov, Stone, Eichel) that make a HUGE difference when you simply just add a player of that caliber. It's flat out bullshit that this is allowed to happen. How the f*** can the league allow this....Mark Stone was just at the freaking All-Star game... his back can't be THAT bad.

Stupid f***ing league.

 

[Avsboy]

Avs w Giroux are still better than that Vegas squad

 

[JLo217]

It'd be one thing if we were talking middling players, but we're talking big profile, $10 million dollar players (Stamkos, Kucherov, Stone, Eichel) that make a HUGE difference when you simply just add a player of that caliber. It's flat out bullshit that this is allowed to happen. How the f*** can the league allow this....Mark Stone was just at the freaking All-Star game... his back can't be THAT bad.

Stupid f***ing league.

All they have to do is tread water and get in.

I do agree though. At this point Stone should be forced to miss however many games they use LTIR for during the playoffs. Its a pretty easy way to enforce it.

You're out 42 games on LTIR for a cap maneuver? Then you miss that number of games in the post season if there are that many.

 

[JLo217]

Avs w Giroux are still better than that Vegas squad

Mack to LTIR.

10 minutes later. Bettman has decided that we're closing this loop hole permanently. Anyone that made these moves before CO is allowed to keep there rosters and LTIR as is this season.

The lengths that the NHL goes to protect certain franchises like AZ and Vegas is insane to me. Both towns are dumps and will struggle to exist after they both cripple what little water is left in the CO river in the coming years.

 

[Ararana]

NHL needs to close the LTIR over the cap in the playoffs loophole, or everyone is going to start cheating the cap to get a big addition and bury someone till the playoffs.

Don't worry the league will close the loop hole just in time before Sakic gets smart enough to realize you can't win a cup without cheating the system these days.

 

[Balthazar]

Avs w Giroux are still better than that Vegas squad

Giroux is the sexy pick but could just as easily turn into a Kariya/Selanne situation rather than a Bourque/Blake situation.

Top tier depth has always been the proven playoff success recipe.

- Get Lehkonen to boost the 3rd line and make us harder to play against (important)
- Get a 4th line C who can win faceoffs and is a good PKer (should be cheap to acquire)
- Get a 3rd pairing RHD who can PK as well and clear the front of the net

Enjoy the cup.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

Giroux is the sexy pick but could just as easily turn into a Kariya/Selanne situation rather than a Bourque/Blake situation.

Top tier depth has always been the proven playoff success recipe.

- Get Lehkonen to boost the 3rd line and make us harder to play against (important)
- Get a 4th line C who can win faceoffs and is a good PKer (should be cheap to acquire)
- Get a 3rd pairing RHD who can PK as well and clear the front of the net

Enjoy the cup.

Not disagreeing with that but getting Giroux could help do all of this. Getting another team to retain 50% on Giroux and trading Compher improves our top-6 and pushes Nuke down to the 3rd line which accomplishes your first point. Then you can use the extra cap space and picks/prospects to accomplish your two other points.

 

[geofff]

There was a proposal back when Chicago did it in ~2013, and ironically Tampa was one of the few teams that voted to close it. The rest of the league didn't want to close the loophole.

I honestly have no ill-will against Tampa Bay/Kucherov, as I do believe he actually had a serious injury and he wasn't 100% when he came back in the playoffs. JBB just made the most of a shitty situation to turn it into a positive.

Vegas is being pretty blatant and brazen about it though, that's the biggest thing that irks me. It's just too convenient and too obvious.

What was the proposal that would close the loophole? There will always be a way you can cheat the system a bit. Most contenders that acquire players at the deadline will be technically over the cap during the playoffs, and I expect we will be too. Obviously having a guy on LTIR all year just to come back for the playoffs is an extreme case of this, but I'm just not sure what exactly you can do to solve it.

 

[Avsboy]

Can't you enforce the cap during the playoffs based on regular season AAV?

 

[The Moops]

Essentially, they'll look at adding to help for a Cup run. Any deals will be weighed for team chemistry, and they'll need to be money in for money out due to the cap.

Has to mean that they are looking at moving current roster players out right?

Also, can we keep MacK on LTIR so we don't have to worry about retention on Giroux and anyone else?