Speculation: 2021-22 LA Kings News, Rumors, Roster Thread Part VI

[King'sPawn]

And this class, is example how on this board, a bird in the bush....is worth much much much more...than a bird in the hand,

Where Vilardi is the next Stoll, and Faber is the next Rob Blake, despite neither of them doing a damn thing in the NHL.....

Except you literally listed 4 "birds in the bush". The bird in the hand is great, but, between the injuries and sudden down-turn of numbers, you are exchanging hope of four young assets for hope of a young asset returning to form.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Can’t they just call up Byfield and move Kupari to wing ? Our best player is out with covid. Seems logical.

please end the frk experiment. His only redeeming quality is his shot but he’s pretty mediocre everywhere else.

Frk was already sent to Ontario.

While I agree I feel bad for him, feels like we did him dirty again, 'lost' his spot due to illness.

How good/bad is Sanheim from Philly? Bigger LHD is the right age range. Former mid 1st round pick, not that it matters much.

I like Sanheim a lot but I don't see him as a significant upgrade on what we have, just bigger/meaner. That's not bad, but not really worth giving up assets for. But people seem to think there's smoke there. I wouldn't be against it.

The play of Ole Maatta, if it continues, mitigates against the immediate need for a experienced LHD. Sometimes leaving the money in the bank is better than a big weekend in Vegas. The crud has destabilized every team. The team seems to have weathered this unique situation pretty well. Just let it simmer.

You know how I know this forum is getting older...

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

I said one good season offensively, every other season had been average at best. His defense is good, but not that good as his lines couldn't even hold possession more often than not against weak competition.

He didn't have one of the best CF% when there were good defensemen there, the data clearly show that. He's not toast, he just was never as good as perceived. Does it really say much when you are one of the best when the other D kinda suck? He should be the clear #1 since those guys left, and he's not. A top-level guy shouldn't need crappy competition to stand out.

Here's something to ponder - maybe he looks good a lot of the time because of quality of competition? Coaches aren't stupid, even Tocchet, and he has been deployed where he is for a reason. Would we want to spend major assets on a guy who we don't even know can handle top competition? If he was truly a high-end guy, he would be flat-out dominating at the competition level he faces, and he's not. Not even close.

I'm not saying he's crap, he's got a lot of strong points to his game and some great potential. But no way in hell do I trade Turcotte, Byfield, or Clarke. I would consider Faber if it were just him, a first, and someone easily replacable. I wouldn't let go of Anderson either, he's turning into something good and he's even younger. I would do something like a 1st, Bjornfot, and Vilardi/Kupari, but I would still hesitate.

I would much rather sign Lindholm next year, he's a better player and has proven he can play against top assignments. He's far more durable to boot.

I'd keep Bjornfoot over Roy or Andersson at this point, in a deal for Chycrun

 

[Fishhead]

.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Except you literally listed 4 "birds in the bush". The bird in the hand is great, but, between the injuries and sudden down-turn of numbers, you are exchanging hope of four young assets for hope of a young asset returning to form.

100% fair point, but we don't know those 4 birds in the bush EVER become what Chycrun was, and what he could be....athletes heal....again, if he was 28, it's a much much stronger argument against.

 

[Fishhead]

I'd keep Bjornfoot over Roy or Andersson at this point, in a deal for Chycrun

I'd rather not lose him either, but I think Anderson has proven a bit more. I doubt Arizona would want Roy.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

FWIW--some prospects HAVE to move. Regardless of what we trade them for. There will quite literally be too many as soon as next year. Whether it's for Chychrun or someone else, Blake DOES need to identify and hit the holes soon, even if the farm hasn't coalesced perfectly to know 'for sure' what holes we have.

For those that visit the trade forum, all last year the Rangers were trying to trade one of their D for Turcotte. In a vacuum, makes sense, right? Position of strength to shore position of weakness for both squads. BUT--you don't really know what you have yet. They're lottery tickets. What if turcotte hits, but byfield busts? Then you have two holes instead of one, etc...yeah at some point you have to trust your player evaluation but with so many lottery tickets it's best to sit tight while some ripen.

I imagine there will be quite some turnover this summer. There just HAS to be. Even if they liquidate some of those prospects back into picks. But I DO LOVE what they did last draft, getting quality over quantity, since the org already has infinity.

 

[cyclones22]

Have to trade some of these prospects for a goaltender prospect I think.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

I'd rather not lose him either, but I think Anderson has proven a bit more. I doubt Arizona would want Roy.

Fair enough...I like Bjornfoot the most out that trio

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I meant one good season offensively, every other season had been average at best. His defense is good, but not that good as his lines couldn't even hold possession more often than not against weak competition.

He didn't have one of the best CF% when there were good defensemen there, the data clearly show that. He's not toast, he just was never as good as perceived. Does it really say much when you are one of the best when the other D kinda suck? He should be the clear #1 since those guys left, and he's not. A top-level guy shouldn't need crappy competition to stand out.

Here's something to ponder - maybe he looks good a lot of the time because of quality of competition? Coaches aren't stupid, even Tocchet, and he has been deployed where he is for a reason. Would we want to spend major assets on a guy who we don't even know can handle top competition? If he was truly a high-end guy, he would be flat-out dominating at the competition level he faces, and he's not. Not even close.

I'm not saying he's crap, he's got a lot of strong points to his game and some great potential. But no way in hell do I trade Turcotte, Byfield, Kaliyev, or Clarke. I would consider Faber if it were just him, a first, and someone easily replacable. I wouldn't let go of Anderson either, he's turning into something good and he's even younger. I would do something like a 1st, Bjornfot, and Vilardi/Kupari, but I would still hesitate.

I would much rather sign Lindholm next year, he's a better player and has proven he can play against top assignments. He's far more durable to boot.

AZ was still a bad team. Thats why you have to use 'team relative' stats. You can only raise the floor so much, you know? Short of prime EK, even the best d-men on the worst teams aren't running away with raw CF%/GF% stats--you have to use team relative to see the performance gap.

You can only play the minutes you're given and it's hard to fault him for having one of the best shutdown d-men of all time playing tougher minutes. They're doing the same for Doughty this year with Roy. Obv. Doughty has history of crushing it so that part is different, but the best use of your best d-man isn't always as a defensive stopper. Hedman gets the same deployment in TB...Guys like Fox and Doughty are kind of the exception, they just get thrown out there.

I agree with you on value, I just think this forum has spent a lot of time downplaying his actual abilities and past results as well as pedigree, using this year to discount everything he brings (not you in particular, the forum at-large).

 

[kingsfan]

JC isn't a FA for 4 years and you can always trade him.

Exactly. People seem to forget if for some reason we are struggling in a few years and JC is a UFA to be we can deal him. A UFA to be top three D-man is worth a 1st plus a good prospect at the deadline. We got a 1st plus two B-tier pieces for Muzzin with a year left on his deal. Giving up a 1st, Faber and Vilardi for a 23 year old with his pedigree and three more seasons at a very reasonable cap hit is a steal and we could easily recoup a lot of it if we choose to flip him in a few years barring his career going off a cliff.

 

[King'sPawn]

100% fair point, but we don't know those 4 birds in the bush EVER become what Chycrun was, and what he could be....athletes heal....again, if he was 28, it's a much much stronger argument against.

I don't disagree. It's just too much of a price.

The Kings paid less for Richards, who was more of a sure thing, when the Kings' organizational outlook was more stable (they made the playoffs the year prior, younger core already contributing).

I'd be receptive to trading for Chychrun for similar value, such as Clarke and Fagemo (Richards went for Schenn and Simmonds - a top prospect who replaced the spot of the player traded for and a 2nd round pick projected to be a middle-six forward). But I'm honestly preferring to wait the year, let the prospect situation sort itself out, and trade surplus next season.

 

[Mats26]

Umm...because this was your exact quote: " Hate to see him battling every night without getting rewarded to fire some pucks in prime scoring areas. "

I've seen Kaliyev have PLENTY of opportunities in 'prime scoring areas' and not bury it. Do I think Kaliyev won't develop into a player that does bury those chances? Not at all, I think he's going to be great eventually.. But stop kidding yourself, playing with Kopitar is not suddenly going to transform him into Teemu Selanne.

Read the full quote and stop cutting corners. I said on the PP. Reading is not some peps forte on here.

He should get rewarded for his hard work on the PP! He is getting the shots but needs them in prime areas, he is firing them from all angles now, needs to be the trigger man in the slot a few minutes a night while Kempe is out.

What does this have to do with Kopi and what line he is on....only you can explain that.

 

[Fishhead]

AZ was still a bad team. Thats why you have to use 'team relative' stats. You can only raise the floor so much, you know? Short of prime EK, even the best d-men on the worst teams aren't running away with raw CF%/GF% stats--you have to use team relative to see the performance gap.

You can only play the minutes you're given and it's hard to fault him for having one of the best shutdown d-men of all time playing tougher minutes. They're doing the same for Doughty this year with Roy. Obv. Doughty has history of crushing it so that part is different, but the best use of your best d-man isn't always as a defensive stopper. Hedman gets the same deployment in TB...Guys like Fox and Doughty are kind of the exception, they just get thrown out there.

I agree with you on value, I just think this forum has spent a lot of time downplaying his actual abilities and past results as well as pedigree, using this year to discount everything he brings (not you in particular, the forum at-large).

Yeah, the context is tough because they really are a bad team. The answer, of course, is somewhere in the middle. We have the assets to pull of a quality for quantity, with the quantity still damn good. If we move for him, that's what I would want to see. If we are trading a Turcotte I want a better return. Of our top young guys, Faber is probably the one I'd be the most OK with.

I would actually be more inclined to pay more if I knew the Kings would push hard for Lindholm. It sounds counterintuitive, but with our young forwards getting ready to break in a defense of:

Doughty
Chychrun
Lindholm
Bjornfot or Anderson
Durzi
Roy (while he's under contract)
Clarke when he comes in

Is pretty damn good. With our offense developing that's contender level. We could make it work cap-wise too with the ELC/RFA players we have.

 

[Sol]

How many games have the Kings won against the sharks since Tmac took the helm ? I think we’ve lost a majority of them easily right ?

 

[Sol]

Umm...because this was your exact quote: " Hate to see him battling every night without getting rewarded to fire some pucks in prime scoring areas. "

I've seen Kaliyev have PLENTY of opportunities in 'prime scoring areas' and not bury it. Do I think Kaliyev won't develop into a player that does bury those chances? Not at all, I think he's going to be great eventually.. But stop kidding yourself, playing with Kopitar is not suddenly going to transform him into Teemu Selanne.

especially considering the fact Kopitar looks like ass

 

[No Name The Nameless]

I don't disagree. It's just too much of a price.

The Kings paid less for Richards, who was more of a sure thing, when the Kings' organizational outlook was more stable (they made the playoffs the year prior, younger core already contributing).

I'd be receptive to trading for Chychrun for similar value, such as Clarke and Fagemo (Richards went for Schenn and Simmonds - a top prospect who replaced the spot of the player traded for and a 2nd round pick projected to be a middle-six forward). But I'm honestly preferring to wait the year, let the prospect situation sort itself out, and trade surplus next season.

I’m all for trading for JC but Clarke is a no sale for me. Byfield, Clark and AK47 are truly untouchable for me. Any combination of any other players are on the table.

 

[King'sPawn]

I’m all for trading for JC but Clarke is a no sale for me. Byfield, Clark and AK47 are truly untouchable for me. Any combination of any other players are on the table.

I'm not keen on it, either, but if the Kings are acquiring a 23 year-old, and they already have an offensive RD in Durzi, a two-way bluechipper like Faber, etc, and if it IS to address a need, I'd reluctantly part with Clarke. I'm reticent to call anyone untouchable except Byfield, and that's because there's nobody else in the pipeline who can contribute what he does in the same position.

 

[unicornpig]

kings are top 6winger and top pairing LD man away from competing in the playoffs. dont spend 1sts on rentals this year please.....

 

[Little Psycho]

kings are top 6winger and top pairing LD man away from competing in the playoffs. dont spend 1sts on rentals this year please.....

Still won't be able to compete cos of shitty special teams

 

[bland]

I'm not keen on it, either, but if the Kings are acquiring a 23 year-old, and they already have an offensive RD in Durzi, a two-way bluechipper like Faber, etc, and if it IS to address a need, I'd reluctantly part with Clarke. I'm reticent to call anyone untouchable except Byfield, and that's because there's nobody else in the pipeline who can contribute what he does in the same position.

Do you rate Chychrun over Clarke? I sure as hell don't, and the wait for Clarke is likely only about 16 months. Certainly not worth another top prospect, a first rounder and likely another asset for what is a short period where we would be hoping Chychrun regains his form on a defensively oriented team before Clarke arrives to boost the PP. The present just isn't the concern here, and in very short order there will be a plethora of offensive defensemen looking for a spot.

Spence, Grans, Nousiainen all progressing. Offense from the blueline is just a temporary organizational concern that will very likely be a team strength, and the best plan is still to play for two years from now.

 

[King'sPawn]

Do you rate Chychrun over Clarke? I sure as hell don't, and the wait for Clarke is likely only about 16 months. Certainly not worth another top prospect, a first rounder and likely another asset for what is a short period where we would be hoping Chychrun regains his form on a defensively oriented team before Clarke arrives to boost the PP. The present just isn't the concern here, and in very short order there will be a plethora of offensive defensemen looking for a spot.

Spence, Grans, Nousiainen all progressing. Offense from the blueline is just a temporary organizational concern that will very likely be a team strength, and the best plan is still to play for two years from now.

For as much as I love Clarke, he's still an unknown commodity at the NHL level. And while the Kings need the next wave to step in, there is Durzi who currently plays the role quite well as an offensive defenseman. Not that I think he makes Clarke redundant, but he makes it easier to swallow trading away a valuable prospect to get a potentially more certain return.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Do you rate Chychrun over Clarke? I sure as hell don't, and the wait for Clarke is likely only about 16 months. Certainly not worth another top prospect, a first rounder and likely another asset for what is a short period where we would be hoping Chychrun regains his form on a defensively oriented team before Clarke arrives to boost the PP. The present just isn't the concern here, and in very short order there will be a plethora of offensive defensemen looking for a spot.

Spence, Grans, Nousiainen all progressing. Offense from the blueline is just a temporary organizational concern that will very likely be a team strength, and the best plan is still to play for two years from now.

Great, no I mean it, it's just two years away......according to your crystal ball..... got the power ball numbers next week or next month?

Who is to say that Spence, Grans, Nousianen turn into ANYTHING.....I mean...we are literally talking about a 4th round pick, a 2nd round pick, and another 4th round pick,

Let's go back 15 years, see how 4th round picks have made out,

2005 - Yandle, Hjamarlsson
2006 - No one
2007 - Martinez
2008 - TJ Brodie
2009 - Savard, Ekholm, Vatanen, Chiarot
2010 - No one
2011 - Mike Reilly....maybe
2012 - Gustafson, Slavin
2013 - Graves
2014 - Toews
2015 - No one
2016 - Mete
2017 - Mikey Andersson
2018 - No one yet
2019 - No one yet.

15 years, and 15 players out of the 4th round......defenseman....

Sorry if I'm not holding my breath they can come in and be the type of player Chycrun is.

But let's say they can turn into a Savard, Brodie, Graves etc, these are the Kings D players 23 and under

Andersson
Bjornfoot
Durzi
Moverarve
Clarke
Grans
Spense
Phillips
Nousianen
Faber
Kirsanov
Meehan

That's 12 players 23 are under, with 3 being on the roster, so 9 maybes....with the exception of Clarke, you HAVE to do something, or lose them via Hickey.....

It's absolute lunacy to think all 9 are going to make it, OR....even if they do, they will be the same impact player Chycrun is, so you bundle them up to upgrade....

 

[bmr]

It’s crazy how quickly Spence is developing in Ontario. I think if you look at him in training camp there is definitely promise, but he’s been the best D in Ontario for the last month.

17 points in 26 games and a +9. He will get a hard look next year and probably see some time with the big club.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

It’s crazy how quickly Spence is developing in Ontario. I think if you look at him in training camp there is definitely promise, but he’s been the best D in Ontario for the last month.

17 points in 26 games and a +9. He will get a hard look next year and probably see some time with the big club.

That's been his story at every level--just exponential growth almost nonstop. It's really crazy. That's what makes his ceiling so uncertain. I was sure he'd run into a wall vs. pros/men but it just hasn't happened.