Speculation: 2021-22 LA Kings News, Rumors, Roster Thread Part VI

[GoldenBearHockey]

That's part of my thinking as well. Every year there are top shelf players available. Every stinking year somebody previously unthinkable comes up as an option.

Folks are really getting carried away with this recent run of excellent form. I see it as a taste of what's coming and will only be made better by the higher-level cost-controlled talent coming in over the next year.

There is zero reason for this team to trade Turcotte. There is no reason to deal Clarke or Faber. Byfield as well. That's your next core, that's where you make your hay, and they will all be here within 16 months.

If you want to add a 2nd tier LHD that doesn't cost any of the above, sure, let's do it. But there is no earthly reason to believe that Arizona deals Chychrun for anything less than one or two of those players plus additional assets, all of whom are on target to have the same kind of value as a Chychrun in short order. The Kings have a ton of offense from the blueline coming very soon. Its a temporary weakness at a heavy, heavy cost to fix now when the end results aren't really sustainable.

You are borrowing from the very near future at a ridiculous interest rate. Its too many high quality assets for a short term improvement of something that isn't really going to be a weakness when your best shot is still a couple of years down the road.

Tell me....what is recent.....10 games...20 games...this...RECENT run is what 40% of the 1st half of the season, 31 games out of....38,.....last 31 games, they are 19-8-4......so you want people to base the season on the first 7 games.....and disregard the past 31....because it's...too recent?

 

[Schmooley]

But stop kidding yourself, playing with Kopitar is not suddenly going to transform him into Teemu Selanne.

Well Kopitar has helped Kempe become an all star. Kaliyev is still a little ways away but you can see hes going to break through at some point.

 

[No Name The Nameless]

Umm...because this was your exact quote: " Hate to see him battling every night without getting rewarded to fire some pucks in prime scoring areas. "

I've seen Kaliyev have PLENTY of opportunities in 'prime scoring areas' and not bury it. Do I think Kaliyev won't develop into a player that does bury those chances? Not at all, I think he's going to be great eventually.. But stop kidding yourself, playing with Kopitar is not suddenly going to transform him into Teemu Selanne.

Maybe not Teemu but Kessel is a real possibility

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

Well Kopitar has helped Kempe become an all star. Kaliyev is still a little ways away but you can see hes going to break through at some point.

If there's not another better example of development for the impatient Kings fanbase than Kempe, I don't know what is. Kempe is not the player he is right now because of Kopitar -- it's because not every player in the NHL is an all-star at the age of 18 or 19 or 20 or 21, etc.....

 

[Dog as Man]

The play of Ole Maatta, if it continues, mitigates against the immediate need for a experienced LHD. Sometimes leaving the money in the bank is better than a big weekend in Vegas. The crud has destabilized every team. The team seems to have weathered this unique situation pretty well. Just let it simmer.

 

[bland]

If there's not another better example of development for the impatient Kings fanbase than Kempe, I don't know what is. Kempe is not the player he is right now because of Kopitar -- it's because not every player in the NHL is an all-star at the age of 18 or 19 or 20 or 21, etc.....

Or you could quite easily look at it as Kempe finally succeeding inspite of a developmental program that couldn't figure out which position and role would optomize his skill set.

 

[Schmooley]

If there's not another better example of development for the impatient Kings fanbase than Kempe, I don't know what is. Kempe is not the player he is right now because of Kopitar -- it's because not every player in the NHL is an all-star at the age of 18 or 19 or 20 or 21, etc.....

I was only kidding. I always liked and defended Kempe. Though Kempe said himself that playing more minutes with better linemates helps.

 

[bland]

Tell me....what is recent.....10 games...20 games...this...RECENT run is what 40% of the 1st half of the season, 31 games out of....38,.....last 31 games, they are 19-8-4......so you want people to base the season on the first 7 games.....and disregard the past 31....because it's...too recent?

You mean the team that JUST entered a playoff spot last week?

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

You mean the team that JUST entered a playoff spot last week?

Oh, so recent is.....playoff spot.....not, that theyve played well for 31 games.....so I wanna make sure, does this mean Calgary, Winnipeg, Edmonton, are shit teams, I mean....no playoffs....recently.....

 

[bland]

So.....if the deal was Faber, Vilardi, 2022 1st, and Moveare, for Chycrun, you are saying you wouldn't do that deal?

Emphatically no.

 

[bland]

Oh, so recent is.....playoff spot.....not, that theyve played well for 31 games.....so I wanna make sure, does this mean Calgary, Winnipeg, Edmonton, are shit teams, I mean....no playoffs....recently.....

I am no following you down your moronic rabbit holes.

 

[kingsfan]

We have a winning percentage of .677 in the last 31 games. That would have us seventh in the entire league. That seven game blip to start the season is what kept us out of the playoffs until last week. Since then we've been one of the best teams in the league.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Emphatically no.

And this class, is example how on this board, a bird in the bush....is worth much much much more...than a bird in the hand,

Where Vilardi is the next Stoll, and Faber is the next Rob Blake, despite neither of them doing a damn thing in the NHL.....

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

I am no following you down your moronic rabbit holes.

LOL actually I think I am trying to escape yours,

OMG Guys are getting so wrapped up in this recent 31 game streak of playing well, that we are completely missing the 7 games we played like shit to start season......

Yea....I'm good with my "moronic rabbit hole" of judging the team on their "minor hot streak" of 31 games vs their "major cold streak" of 7

 

[KINGS17]

Totally misfired on that analogy.

The prospects are the Kings bird in the hand. This would be more aptly be applied to Arizona which actually has the bird in hand, in Chycrun. They would be giving him up for the birds in the bush (Kings' prospects).

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Totally misfired on that analogy.

Probably Stoll was the only name I could think of at the time,

Point being, we don't know what Vilardi will become, we sure as hell don't know what Faber will become, he hasn't even played a game of pro, could he be the next Lidstrom, sure....why not....he can EASILY become the next Griffin Reinhart,

So you 100% take the PROVEN 23 year old, over both.

 

[No Name The Nameless]

Emphatically no.

Holy crap. That's an underpayment and you decline it emphatically?

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Totally misfired on that analogy.

The prospects are the Kings bird in the hand. This would be more aptly be applied to Arizona which actually has the bird in hand, in Chycrun. They would be giving him up for the birds in the bush (Kings' prospects).

Umm...yes, that's what I am saying, on this board, the birds in the bush are being more valued than the bird in the hand.....

 

[FSL KINGS]

And this class, is example how on this board, a bird in the bush....is worth much much much more...than a bird in the hand,

Where Vilardi is the next Stoll, and Faber is the next Rob Blake, despite neither of them doing a damn thing in the NHL.....

Let's over pay for a guy AZ is thinking about dumping because his value is maxed out before we even know what we have in the prospects.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Let's over pay for a guy AZ is thinking about dumping because his value is maxed out before we even know what we have in the prospects.

Yea, 100%, that's what winning teams do....

Tell me is Faber the next Lidstrom, or the next Reinhart?

Do you lose the chance at a top pairing D who is 23 and has a helluva friendly contract, because you aren't sure?

 

[Schmooley]

Yea, 100%, that's what winning teams do....

Tell me is Faber the next Lidstrom, or the next Reinhart?

Do you lose the chance at a top pairing D who is 23 and has a helluva friendly contract, because you aren't sure?

I want to get Chychrun so Im with you on this. But Chychrun isnt Lidstrom either.
And its not just Faber. Its Faber, Turcotte/Vilardi/Kupari, first round pick, and probably a roster player. Its a lot to trade and if any guy breaks out itll sting especially if Chychrun leaves as a ufa and Kings dont win a thing with him on the roster. Seeing it from other peoples perspective is ok even if you disagree.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

I want to get Chychrun so Im with you on this. But Chychrun isnt Lidstrom either.
And its not just Faber. Its Faber, Turcotte/Vilardi/Kupari, first round pick, and probably a roster player. Its a lot to trade and if any guy breaks out itll sting especially if Chychrun leaves as a ufa and Kings dont win a thing with him on the roster. Seeing it from other peoples perspective is ok even if you disagree.

No Chycrun isn't Lidstrom, 100%, but if the price is Faber, Vilardi, a 1st and Andersson or Roy, that's a 100% yes....I doubt Coyotes do that, if it's Turcotte, it becomes more expensive, but I still think you do it,

It's a lot to trade, but where are these guys going to play? Where is Vilardi going to play, you lose Brown, plug in Fagemo, where is Vilardi going to play? Where is JAD going to play?

I'm not saying they are wrong, but the guy literally said he would say no to a deal that was a late 1st, a 4-6 D, and 2 mid prospects.....I mean, there's that...and there's....WTF.....

 

[No Name The Nameless]

I want to get Chychrun so Im with you on this. But Chychrun isnt Lidstrom either.
And its not just Faber. Its Faber, Turcotte/Vilardi/Kupari, first round pick, and probably a roster player. Its a lot to trade and if any guy breaks out itll sting especially if Chychrun leaves as a ufa and Kings dont win a thing with him on the roster. Seeing it from other peoples perspective is ok even if you disagree.

JC isn't a FA for 4 years and you can always trade him.

 

[Fishhead]

Nice, thank you. But no, it wasn't one 'great' season, it was basically every season but this one, everyone just keeps thinking we're trying to trade for the guy who scored an unsustainable amount of goals when that's not even what we're enticed by.

Right--he wasn't deployed as the shutdown dman, that was Hjalmarsson-Demers.

FWIW--most of the guys 'ahead' of him on the graph will have favorable stats because they're not on the team this year, either. So they get the benefit of 2-3 'good' (decent) years but not the pulldown of this year's tire fire. JC isn't doing himself any favors this year either, though.

What it does is beg the ongoing question--how much of it is changing staff/deployments (no Hjalmarsson especially, most underrated dude in hockey for years, but also no OEL/Demers etc), how much of it is current team environment (we're dumping EVERYTHING NOT NAILED DOWN for 2nd round picks), how much of it could be lingering injury, what do you get on the other side of all this?

Edit: yep jsut checked and if you run it for the previous three years, you get a guy who is basically tied at 1-3 for all of the above, better CF% than most anyone, better GF% than anyone but his regular partner and Demers, running away with HDCF%, and basically the same deployment as anyone but the shutdown pair. So the 'gamble' is on a bounceback to 'normal' PLUS any growth/what he looks like on a better team. THATS why people are enamored with the idea of his skating/two way play with Doughty et. al. But it's certainly always a lot of factors vs. price vs. form, so I get it.

But this idea that he's toast because he's had 'one good season' and now is toast when everything points to this season is the aberration reminds me of the people who were getting ready to throw DOughty out when he dipped for 1.5 seasons when everything else overwhelmingly pointed to an outlier. People aren't thrilled with Chychrun because he scored a bunch of goals once, they've seen his all around play for years, including a highly-touted player coming out of juniors. There are some absolutely legitimate concerns but this idea that he's never been a high-end d-men is not a real one.

I meant one good season offensively, every other season had been average at best. His defense is good, but not that good as his lines couldn't even hold possession more often than not against weak competition.

He didn't have one of the best CF% when there were good defensemen there, the data clearly show that. He's not toast, he just was never as good as perceived. Does it really say much when you are one of the best when the other D kinda suck? He should be the clear #1 since those guys left, and he's not. A top-level guy shouldn't need crappy competition to stand out.

Here's something to ponder - maybe he looks good a lot of the time because of quality of competition? Coaches aren't stupid, even Tocchet, and he has been deployed where he is for a reason. Would we want to spend major assets on a guy who we don't even know can handle top competition? If he was truly a high-end guy, he would be flat-out dominating at the competition level he faces, and he's not. Not even close.

I'm not saying he's crap, he's got a lot of strong points to his game and some great potential. But no way in hell do I trade Turcotte, Byfield, Kaliyev, or Clarke. I would consider Faber if it were just him, a first, and someone easily replacable. I wouldn't let go of Anderson either, he's turning into something good and he's even younger. I would do something like a 1st, Bjornfot, and Vilardi/Kupari, but I would still hesitate.

I would much rather sign Lindholm next year, he's a better player and has proven he can play against top assignments. He's far more durable to boot.

 

[kingsholygrail]

Kopitar's TOI so far this month hasn't gone over 21:00.