Speculation: 2021-22 LA Kings News, Rumors, Roster Thread Part VI

[cyclones22]

Yeah weird how the Caufield pumping suddenly stopped eh

But anyway I have a friend who broke both legs and is wheelchair bound for about 6 months and he is just NOT dominating at work lately

Your co-worker's just special though. You can just see he has that elite mouse right-click release that just translates to any level of office work.

 

[King'sPawn]

I don't think it's a question of which players they drafted or how they were "developed" (which is a nebulous term to me. It doesn't mean anything outside of the specific context someone is using it)... it's about how much time/opportunity those players were given to "prove" their worth.

I don't think it's limited to one person/one regime either.

They were "right" from 2010-2014 and it cost them a ton of draft capital to reach that peak. I'm not terribly interested in digging into the Kings draft picks from 2012 - 2017 but it seems fairly clear to me that they were drafting differently following the transition from Lombardi to Blake.

My contention has always been that the org began "rebuilding" with the acquisition of Cal Petersen and the transition from Lombardi to Blake. These franchises are rarely as simple as "Executive A makes a judgement and then acts unilaterally"

There are multiple levels or management, ownership etc that get input. There are multiple competing goals... profits, development, reputation etc 2014 -2015 is a well documented mess, 2016 one could make the argument everything was on track, 2016-17 was the injury riddled season, 2017-18 one could argue everything appeared to be back on track, 2018-19 the wheels came off.

I'm all over the place here but I'll just toss in another factor that I rarely see get mentioned.

The Kuemper trade was, in my totally speculative opinion, a move specifically designed to send a message to players in the NHL about how the LA Kings would treat their players. Both Blake and Robitaille left the Kings on multiple occasions under... "less than ideal" situations. Lombardi mishandled Richards, Voynov and arguably Brown.

I asked Blake about the Kuemper trade and he told me to my face it was done as a favor to Kuemper to help him maximize the career opportunity he had created with his strong bounce back play in LA.

I believe the same motivation is in play for the option given to 11/23/77/8/32 about how and when to end their tenure here. Carter chose to exit and even Doughty expressed some surprise at it. I understand why some people think that's a mistake. I understand why looking back at 2015 some people assumed the party was over already.

What I understand now after spending some time seeing how the machine actually works is that nothing is ever as simple as people want it to be.

I understand and appreciate the detailed response.

I agree with the Kuemper trade, and I also believe some of these core players get a bigger priority because, frankly, I DO think it's important to treat the players like people more than "assets."

But that is why I have issues with the general output of top-six caliber forwards in the NHL. It's like they feel the best way to help prospects succeed is to turn him into a grinder, that way they'll have a potentially longer career.

But I don't think that's the best interest of skilled players.

I don't think whatever they're doing is malicious, but I do think the current plan going forward is unsustainable, especially if Rob Blake wants to have more skill.

 

[KINGS17]

I think the Kings were correct in taking Byfield at #2 overall is because even though he is young and unproven, he has the frame and the skill to play 1C in a dominant fashion. Teams that win Stanley Cups usually have a guy at 1C that can dominate in at least a couple facets of the game.

 

[tny760]

Can't f***ing take it anymore, had to put GoldenBearHockey on ignore. Good riddance.

welcome to the club

it's a bit confusing when he goes on sprees cause you get these random argumentative posts out of context in threads but it's better overall

 

[Herby]

No kidding. Byfield had a very good rookie season in the AHL last season. And now he stagnating? Give me a break. You can also anoint players too soon. Whatever happened to our Lord and savior Cole Caufield? I seem to remember some people on this board were very high on him. And how returning to Wisconsin for more development was part of the reason why he was so great out of the gate.

He has multiple rounds of high level play in the NHL playoffs in his D+2. I wish we had one of our prospects show through like that over a somewhat consistent time frame. But he has been horrible this season, and anyone who says otherwise is doing what I can't stand, making excuses. He has been God-awful. As far as playing a sophomore year vs. not, its pretty obvious its always been a better route for good NCAA players who aren't quite there yet to graduate to pro hockey. All the really good sophomores in the NCAA this season will end up for the better returning, Beniers could have been playing in the AHL this season at 19, but he will enter pro hockey for the better by playing the extra year.

Maybe stagnation for Byfield was a bit of a harsh word, but for a #2OA pick it is reasonable to expect at the very least a dominating player in his second year in the AHL. Is that a fair statement? Do you believe he has been a dominant player at that level?

If QB isn't on the NHL roster and beginning to look the part by the end of this season it's fair to start getting worried, would you agree with that statement?

Check back in the Spring, I hope there is something to be excited about as it comes to on-ice play. Hopefully in LA.

 

[cyclones22]

Well he just scored his second goal in two games since his return from COVID.

 

[Herby]

But that is why I have issues with the general output of top-six caliber forwards in the NHL. It's like they feel the best way to help prospects succeed is to turn him into a grinder, that way they'll have a potentially longer career.
.

The Kings seem to be doing this with Turcotte, it's awesome if he has intangible benefits and plays a sandpaper type game but his development should have been focused on having him hopefully ready to be a scorer in the NHL and then have all those extra intangibles come along to add value. Instead he is now in the NHL playing an energy role after 30 points in 50 AHL games over two seasons where he many nights was slotted behind AAAA players. What is the organizational expectation here, if it's to be a scorer in the NHL it just seems to be a weird way to develop him.

I think in fairness a dilemma for the Kings young players is the complete lack of anything of substance to play with as they come up. Kopitar is still a quality player but is significantly declining, and most of our young players are centers who wouldn't be able to play with him. The Kings veteran players are almost all lunch pail type players (Moore, Danault, Brown, Lemieux, Iafallo, Lizotte), great for energy players and grinders, but not really an ideal spot to develop scoring line players. I truly think it's time that the Kings cash in some of these for a scorer in his prime, I know easier said than done but great players do still get traded. If this team had kept it's 1st in 2015 and drafted Barzal or Connor I think they just make it so much easier to integrate young scorers.

 

[apocalypse]

The Kings seem to be doing this with Turcotte, it's awesome if he has intangible benefits and plays a sandpaper type game but his development should have been focused on having him hopefully ready to be a scorer in the NHL and then have all those extra intangibles come along to add value. Instead he is now in the NHL playing an energy role after 30 points in 50 AHL games over two seasons where he many nights was slotted behind AAAA players. What is the organizational expectation here, if it's to be a scorer in the NHL it just seems to be a weird way to develop him.

I think in fairness a dilemma for the Kings young players is the complete lack of anything of substance to play with as they come up. Kopitar is still a quality player but is significantly declining, and most of our young players are centers who wouldn't be able to play with him. The Kings veteran players are almost all lunch pail type players (Moore, Danault, Brown, Lemieux, Iafallo, Lizotte), great for energy players and grinders, but not really an ideal spot to develop scoring line players. I truly think it's time that the Kings cash in some of these for a scorer in his prime, I know easier said than done but great players do still get traded. If this team had kept it's 1st in 2015 and drafted Barzal or Connor I think they just make it so much easier to integrate young scorers.

Yeah that's where you develop players, in the ahl. If you just bring them up to the NHL right away, they won't amount to much. Develop them right, let them simmer and they'll break out properly in the NHL.

 

[apocalypse]

That's not how I remember it; I remember many specifically saying Byfield is a little raw and if a team can wait a little on him to grow and develop he could be the best player from the draft. And that was before the setback. Byfield even more so than the others though you can make similar cases due to injury history on Turcotte and Vilardi. Believe me I get the frustration with draft slot --> roster slot and contribution but especially using the last 6 AHL games against Byfield feels especially insulting.

100% with you on the 2nd point though. These guys have had enough developmental speedbumps personally, they don't need the org doing it as well.

Yeah Byfield needs to play in Ont for awhile. Get the scoring up and get his pro game going. Dude's either going to be a beast or the least for LA.

 

[Schmooley]

He has multiple rounds of high level play in the NHL playoffs in his D+2. I wish we had one of our prospects show through like that over a somewhat consistent time frame. But he has been horrible this season, and anyone who says otherwise is doing what I can't stand, making excuses. He has been God-awful. As far as playing a sophomore year vs. not, its pretty obvious its always been a better route for good NCAA players who aren't quite there yet to graduate to pro hockey. All the really good sophomores in the NCAA this season will end up for the better returning, Beniers could have been playing in the AHL this season at 19, but he will enter pro hockey for the better by playing the extra year.

Maybe stagnation for Byfield was a bit of a harsh word, but for a #2OA pick it is reasonable to expect at the very least a dominating player in his second year in the AHL. Is that a fair statement? Do you believe he has been a dominant player at that level?

If QB isn't on the NHL roster and beginning to look the part by the end of this season it's fair to start getting worried, would you agree with that statement?

Check back in the Spring, I hope there is something to be excited about as it comes to on-ice play. Hopefully in LA.

You dont think Byfield is going to be a really special player? He has so much potential it would be tragic if he doesnt reach his ceiling.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

You dont think Byfield is going to be a really special player? He has so much potential it would be tragic if he doesnt reach his ceiling.

I guarantee you that no one that has watched a full Byfield game or a few Turcotte games this year in Ontario is worried.

Byfield in particular looks like he's about to completely explode.

 

[Herby]

You dont think Byfield is going to be a really special player? He has so much potential it would be tragic if he doesnt reach his ceiling.

No. I am still optimistic, but I think he needs to have a season similar to what Zegras did as a 19 year old last year to be on track. Dominate the AHL for a little while, come up to the NHL, show some flashes and then be ready to be a productive player next season as a 20 year old. That is what a special player would do, and that should be the expectation for QB.

 

[Trash Panda]

I guarantee you that no one that has watched a full Byfield game or a few Turcotte games this year in Ontario is worried.

Byfield in particular looks like he's about to completely explode.

Anyone second guessing the Q pick is kidding themselves, he has all the tools to achieve Malkin-lite levels of dominance, and is seriously putting it together.

Kid is a stud.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

No. I am still optimistic, but I think he needs to have a season similar to what Zegras did as a 19 year old last year to be on track. Dominate the AHL for a little while, come up to the NHL, show some flashes and then be ready to be a productive player next season as a 20 year old. That is what a special player would do, and that should be the expectation for QB.

I think that's a fair expectation but given he had made the team out of camp and is coming back from injury and illness yeah I'd agree "stagnate" is absolutely the wrong word. Maybe let him get back on the rink before insinuating he's not meeting expectations.

Or, if you're going to freak out over a small sample size, realize he's also got two goals in two games and was absolutely sailing out there tonight. Can't have it both ways, after all.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

I think that's a fair expectation but given he had made the team out of camp and is coming back from injury and illness yeah I'd agree "stagnate" is absolutely the wrong word. Maybe let him get back on the rink before insinuating he's not meeting expectations.

Or, if you're going to freak out over a small sample size, realize he's also got two goals in two games and was absolutely sailing out there tonight. Can't have it both ways, after all.

Isn't everyone freaking out over a small sample size? Zegras, Turcotte, Byfield, Boldy etc, it's all WAY TOO soon to be singing their praises or damning them.....

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Isn't everyone freaking out over a small sample size? Zegras, Turcotte, Byfield, Boldy etc, it's all WAY TOO soon to be singing their praises or damning them.....

Absolutely. I'm just pointing out it's REALLY dishonest to be like "QB hasn't done anything in the AHL all year, quit making excuses for him."

 

[ru4reals]

Well he just scored his second goal in two games since his return from COVID.

He was a monster last night. Could have had a few assist too if I recall. Kid was pretty damn impressive. Drooling all night watching him.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

He was a monster last night. Could have had a few assist too if I recall. Kid was pretty damn impressive. Drooling all night watching him.

Not good enough, 5 pts or GTFO

 

[Perratrooper]

I know it’s been circled to a few times, but would you guys be interested in Girard? I know some of you prefer grittier defense, but I do think Girard addresses some major issues on your defense especially on the left side.

 

[ru4reals]

Not good enough, 5 pts or GTFO

Lol so true totally forgot.

 

[kingsfan]

I know it’s been circled to a few times, but would you guys be interested in Girard? I know some of you prefer grittier defense, but I do think Girard addresses some major issues on your defense especially on the left side.

Would still love to get him but I don't see why they'd move him outside of a goalie upgrade and Quick isn't the type of upgrade that nets a Girard-level player.

 

[kingsfan]

I'm not worried about Byfield. Way to early. Kid had a good rookie year and TMac even said he would have made the Kings until the ankle injury. He's needed time to get back into game action -which is understandable since his first AHL game was the first game action he's had outside of exhibition/pre-season in like nine months- and even then he's had two goals in his last three games. By the sounds of those watching he should have had some assists too, so it could be a bit about who he's playing with too. I expect he'll be up by early Feb.

 

[LAKings88]

I know it’s been circled to a few times, but would you guys be interested in Girard? I know some of you prefer grittier defense, but I do think Girard addresses some major issues on your defense especially on the left side.

I like him but I don’t know if LA would pay the price for a smaller guy. I do think they could use him to get some offense from the back and he moves the puck well. Chychrun should be their target in all honesty tho.

 

[Damassk]

 

[bland]

We're ****ed.