Speculation: 2021-22 LA Kings News, Rumors, Roster Thread Part VI
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Mats26
Vet Movement - What's the Maatta?
- Sep 16, 2005
- 3,865
- 3,799
I think Wolanin has leapfrogged Maatta on the depth chart but on the other hand, Maatta has video of Mclellan cheating on his wife
They are both pretty much the same player, good skaters, offensive minded defensively meh......both should be 7th options
Raccoon Jesus
We were right there
They won't be this year, though--Edler is out and might be done, Walker is done for the year at least. I'd like a guy with experience and nastiness on the relatively cheap over Wolanin/Maatta, we have plenty of mobile vanilla LHDs.
Doughty-Anderson
Bjornfot-Roy
Lauzon-Durzi
johnjm22
Pseudo Intellectual
- Aug 2, 2005
- 21,481
- 18,928
Sounds interesting. I haven't watched him play though. Edler was doing pretty well for us, if Chara could replace that and be cheap, it'd be a nice pickup.
Although I'm not sure he'd want to come here. He wants to play for a contender.
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lumbergh
It was an idea. I didn't say it was a good idea.
I'll give you profiles of three defensemen and you tell me which one is more valuable. (all stats at even strength over the past three seasons; rank amongst 242 defensemen > 600 minutes played in parentheses)
Player 1: 0.14 G/60 (164) 0.64 points/60 (187), 47.22 GF% (157)
Player 2: 0.45 G/60 (11), 1.09 P/60 (52), 45.04 GF% (188)
Player 3: 0.32 G/60 (32), 1.17 points/60 (33), 63.19 GF% (1)
Player 1 is your most non-descript NHL defenseman (Lauzon), Player 2 is your flashy 1st round pick (Chychrun), and Player 3 is the player that ends up on the plus side night-in, night-out (Soucy). Surprisingly, Soucy has more points per 60 minutes ES than Chychrun.
Now before you go and say that maybe Soucy gets more O zone starts, he doesn't. He's used as a defensive defenseman, yet puts up points like Chychrun.
Or you'll say that Chychrun plays on a bad team, so that's why his GF% is no good. Soucy has played on Minnesota for two seasons and now the Kraken, and each season he has lead the team in +/-. He is also the league leader in GF% Rel by a wide margin, which means the team is way better with him on the ice than not. Soucy also plays on a bad team now, but he manages a +8 while Chychrun is a remarkable -29 in 26 games. These are the stats that are particularly telling for defensemen, and it's plain to see that Soucy is a very, very good defenseman.
How does he do it? On the back of the league-leading PDO. Top 10 on-ice save % in the league, and leads the league in on-ice shooting %, meaning he's good defensively, and his team scores a lot when he's on the ice. As a stat-head, I would make the case that Carson Soucy is the most under-the-radar great defenseman in the league.
I'm not saying that Chychrun isn't awesome or wouldn't be a great add, but you have to pay 3-4 top prospects/1st-rounders to get him. Soucy won't cost you the farm and would be a great partner for Doughty or Brandt in the future. Value-wise, the better choice is Soucy.
Reaper45
Registered User
Too rich for my blood.
Why do you think that? No team has two recent top 5 picks to offer them so why is that the price from the Kings and its lower for everyone else?
Thats the start of a package for Matthews not Chychrun. And I dig Chychrun and hope the Kings can get him.
Raccoon Jesus
We were right there
But again, it's apples and oranges to roles--one is being used as an all situations #1 dman, the others are being used as #4-6. Soucy, Lauzon, Haydn Fleury are all used as the 5-7 dman on any given night.
Soucy is a great value option (especially for those who might be after Chairot but are laughing their assess off at the MTL asking price). Chychrun is a guy with pedigree and visible performance who could use a change of scenery from the circus who would be with the franchise for a decade or more.
No one is pretending Chychrun is having a good year, don't get me wrong, but there's a lot more to this than goals and +/-. If you're looking to solve a long-term top-pairing LHD concern, the guy HAS to be Chychrun (of these three). He does everything for the team and in the top role at a high level this year nonwithstanding. If you're looking for underrated physical depth, Soucy is your guy. Soucy reminds me a bit of Edmundson before he went to MTL, a guy with great metrics who people thought was ready for a bigger role. If you want to gamble on that you can and there are certainly worse ideas, I'm certain he's at least a good 2nd pairing guy. It's definitely a safer (read: Blake) move, too.
I'm not trying to be combative if it comes off that way, I agree with you in a lot of ways. I just think right now this is like comparing Muzzin to Fantenberg or Folin, a top pairing guy to depth guys that could have more to give (or Edmundson if you want an example of a guy who DID break through).
johnjm22
Pseudo Intellectual
- Aug 2, 2005
- 21,481
- 18,928
That's not two top 5 picks.
It don't think the price is lower elsewhere. It usually takes 3 high quality assets for this type of player.
Turcotte projects as a 2nd/3rd liner. Our 1st this year would be closer to the middle of the 1st round. Brandt is far from a sure thing. The package isn't as rich as it sounds.
People tend to overrate the value of futures. And especially overate the value of their own futures.
Yea my bad Clarke was top 10 not top 5. I just cant see them moving both him and Turcotte in a package for someone that isnt a true superstar. They spent time developing Turcotte and think of him as a future leader.
If you watched the draft it seemed like the Kings have had ties to Clarke for years prior to the draft and were very excited to get him.
I just cant see this being a price the Kings pay. Whether or not its worth it is a different story.
johnjm22
Pseudo Intellectual
- Aug 2, 2005
- 21,481
- 18,928
Yeah, I wouldn't make that trade. Too rich for me.
I'm just trying to look at it from the perspective of the Coyotes. We're bias in evaluating our own prospects. Every fanbase is. Turc/Brandt/1st is huge to us, but it'd just be the obvious asking price from Arizona I think.
Trash Panda
Registered User
- May 12, 2021
- 2,620
- 4,739
Arizona can ask whatever they want but Chychrum is a nice to have, not a must have.
While i agree that prospects can pan out or not, there are some who are almost a sure bet.
Everyone knew what we get in Doughty and Clark is on the same level.
Our defence is actually looking great and the least of our concerns
Anderson - Doughty
Bjornfoot - Clark
xxx - Durzi
That is a future lineup most NHL teams are jealous of and doesn't leave much room to upgrade.
It's pretty obvious in games, where we actually score goals and we shouldn't even think about shipping out our youngsters for someone like Chychrum
If we can find a coaching style and develop players who can actually score a goal, we will be tough to beat
Kempe - Byfield - Kaliev
Fagemo - Turcotte - xxx
Iafallo - Kupari - Vilardi
Lemieux - Lizotte - Moore
If we can somehow draft or trade for a goal scoring young winger, we are pretty much set and ready to compete.
I still have the feeling that we have an absolute sleeper in Aatu Jamsen, this boy rips every opponent apart regardless of which league he plays.
This guys just turned 19 and scores a little over 1 PPG against grown men in a 157pounds body frame in the Metis league, which is 2nd highest in Finland where he was loaned to from his main club Pelicans
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DoktorJeep
Luc and Rob are a waste of time and money.
Nick Kypreos said today the price for Chycrun includes a blue chip prospect plus plus. It would cost equivalent to Eichel because of the contract value. For the Leafs, Sandin would have to be included. Byfield or Turcotte was mentioned for the Kings, who they said didn’t have a defenseman on par with Sandin. And they said like 7 teams are in the bidding, including the Kings, Anaheim, Leafs, Ducks and Islanders.
So if it’s a 4 players for 1 player deal similar to the Eichel transaction in terms of rounding out the structure, it’s hard, but not impossible, to see moving Byfield. It could be argued the Kings don’t need him as much as Chycrun this year and next, especially with the depth at center throughout the organization. You’re gambling on Byfield in 3 years not being a 1C, when you likely need one because Kopitar is too old. Who knows, maybe Vilardi can get close to that level in 3 years, or even Turcotte. And in the meantime, the team is making the playoffs and possibly going on a run or two.
My take is the Kings would have to offer a package of lottery protected 1st, a second, Byfield and Iafallo to land Chyrcrun in a hyper competitive market. That’s as close to the Eichel deal as it gets for them.
So if it’s a 4 players for 1 player deal similar to the Eichel transaction in terms of rounding out the structure, it’s hard, but not impossible, to see moving Byfield. It could be argued the Kings don’t need him as much as Chycrun this year and next, especially with the depth at center throughout the organization. You’re gambling on Byfield in 3 years not being a 1C, when you likely need one because Kopitar is too old. Who knows, maybe Vilardi can get close to that level in 3 years, or even Turcotte. And in the meantime, the team is making the playoffs and possibly going on a run or two.
My take is the Kings would have to offer a package of lottery protected 1st, a second, Byfield and Iafallo to land Chyrcrun in a hyper competitive market. That’s as close to the Eichel deal as it gets for them.
johnjm22
Pseudo Intellectual
- Aug 2, 2005
- 21,481
- 18,928
It depends. If last year was an aberration then yes he's overvalued. But if it's a sign of things to come, then he'll be a perennial Norris candidate.
And it's not like we was living off the PP. He had 13 even strength goals on an offensively anemic Coyotes team. That's pretty astounding. No one on LA had more than 10.
This wouldn't be comparable to the Gaborik situation at all.
Laughable that Sandin is the cost from the Leafs and for the Kings its Byfield. Hes a 3rd pairing dman right now that is closer to Anderson and Bjornfot than a recent 2nd overall with #1c potential.
Chychrun is a good player and all, but I don't think he is Jack Eichel level talent and that is a very risky, steep, price to pay for someone that could take in a couple of seasons. We just aren't ready for the Mike Richards trade. Also, Byfield is all in or bust. There is no way this team is trading him anywhere without an established elite talent behind Kopitar.
kingsfan
President of the Todd McLellan fan club by default
Not to say he can't improve on his numbers but the guy has had 18 goals in 118 NHL games. He's not likely to suddenly be a sniper at 27 years of age. Also, I like the point total part of the argument because TJ Tynan has an even better PPG and people called it a waste to call him up for two games.
Frk's stats almost identically mirror Michael Mersch. He's a UFA and could sign with any team and has no takers.
Frk btw has nine points in his last 12 games, so his current pace is really due to a hot run to start the season.
kingsfan
President of the Todd McLellan fan club by default
How far ahead is this line up that still has Doughty but not Kopitar? By the time Kopi leaves there will be a ton of changes to the club.
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