Speculation: 2021-22 LA Kings News, Rumors, Roster Thread Part VI

[GoldenBearHockey]

No matter how we see it, the bigger picture is that this team is f#@ked when the prospects are ready for NHL ice time, which looks like real soon. We simply have too many prospects that will need ice time and not enough roster spots.

If we don't move out anyone in the top 6, then we have next year:
Kopitar-Danault-Kempe-Iafallo-Arvidsson....(if Brown re-signs, I am done with this team) leaves one winger spot in the top 6 next year. Inside track belongs to Kaliyev, but what do I know what these clowns will do.

Leaves around 10-12 players\prospects for bottom 6 roles. Unless a major cleanup happens to give our top kids ice time, expect more of the same revolving door with vet priorities in the bottom 6 next year.

Disagree to a point, yes, when everyone is ready, there will be too many players for too few spots, I don't think you see Lias Andersson back, I don't think you see Grundstrom back, not sure on Lizotte, depends on if a kid can out motor him, which to be honest, is highly doubtful, I don't think you see Brown back, but I also think you move Danault, Iafallo, Arvidsson to your 3rd line, almost like you make a 2a and a 2b line, don't fall over, but I agree with Raccoon about ice time, 1st line should, only be playing 20-21 min a game, within the right circumstances, that's how you keep them fresh for 82 games, not sure the math on it, but you have 9 slots, 60 minutes a game, 3 at a time, it's possible that you create 3 solid lines, and get close to equal ice time and ride out the hot line on a per game basis, we aren't there yet, Turcotte has had one game, good showing, but needs more, Byfield, we saw for 6 games, he may or may not be there, but when he's ready/healthy you don't sit him over a Lias Andresson or Trevor Moore etc,

Going into next year, you make your top 9, a combination of
Kopitar, Danault, Byfield, Turcotte, Kempe, Arvidsson, Kaliyev, Iafallo, and who ever grabs the bull by the horns, be it Lemieux, Thomas, JAD, Lizotte, Thomas, whomever.....

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

For all the praise Kempe is getting, he's pacing at 34 G and 16 assists. And people are saying he's been the best forward this season.

This is concerning because:
- it's still inferior to Tyler Toffoli's best season
- 50 points from your "best" player is extremely weak, especially when your management wants an up-tempo game and you're bleeding chances against.

The ability to churn out regular NHLers who can slot in and not be complete liabilities is an admitted strength in the organization.

But as Kopitar, Iafallo, etc phase out, the organization has shown an inability to "develop" top flight forwards through the pipeline.

Kaliyev doesn't have to be a liability. But he does need to develop his game with his toolset.

Or the Kings just need to accept they want a lineup full of defensive forwards, adjust their system/structure/plan accordingly, and stop prioritizing players who have stronger offensive toolsets.

Again though, you need talent to develop top flight forwards, the Kings have ignored that for years...and this is the price, now that we finally have....top flight forwards...you have to be patient with them, and not try to force them out of the nest or make snap judgements on 30 games etc.

 

[Mats26]

They can't see it because they are so focused on the tree, they miss the goddamn forest, I mean shit, Terry took 4 years to get where he is, and these clowns want it in 30 games.....it's amazing.

Kaliyev has absolutely 100% improved and is getting chances, the real test is going to be next year, where do they slot him..... again, these guys think players are ranked 1-12, and you put 1-3 on line one, 4-6 on line 2, 7-9 on line 3, and 10-12 on line 4, if that's not how it's done, it's OMG this organization doesn't know what it's doing....yadda yadda yadda..... it's just now, much much louder, even than before in 2010 etc.

They see Zegras succeeding, and make no mistake, he is absolutely killing it, and then go OMG why isn't Turcotte doing the same thing, because you know, all top 10 picks are built the same in the same way at the same time from the same factory.

I think the Zegras Virus has hit this board hard.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

I think the Zegras Virus has hit this board hard.

Zegras, Raymond, basically any good young player who is playing, virus.... lol

 

[Mats26]

Disagree to a point, yes, when everyone is ready, there will be too many players for too few spots, I don't think you see Lias Andersson back, I don't think you see Grundstrom back, not sure on Lizotte, depends on if a kid can out motor him, which to be honest, is highly doubtful, I don't think you see Brown back, but I also think you move Danault, Iafallo, Arvidsson to your 3rd line, almost like you make a 2a and a 2b line, don't fall over, but I agree with Raccoon about ice time, 1st line should, only be playing 20-21 min a game, within the right circumstances, that's how you keep them fresh for 82 games, not sure the math on it, but you have 9 slots, 60 minutes a game, 3 at a time, it's possible that you create 3 solid lines, and get close to equal ice time and ride out the hot line on a per game basis, we aren't there yet, Turcotte has had one game, good showing, but needs more, Byfield, we saw for 6 games, he may or may not be there, but when he's ready/healthy you don't sit him over a Lias Andresson or Trevor Moore etc,

Going into next year, you make your top 9, a combination of
Kopitar, Danault, Byfield, Turcotte, Kempe, Arvidsson, Kaliyev, Iafallo, and who ever grabs the bull by the horns, be it Lemieux, Thomas, JAD, Lizotte, Thomas, whomever.....

I'll believe that when I see it. There is no way this coach will have a kid line in the top 6. If your talking a 3rd line it starts with Byfield at center then see who wins the spots from there.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

I'll believe that when I see it. There is no way this coach will have a kid line in the top 6. If your talking a 3rd line it starts with Byfield at center then see who wins the spots from there.

Well, except for the part that you completely missed what I said,

What kid line, do you think they are gonna line up Byfield, Turcotte and Kaliyev and say here go? No NHL team would do that......Hell even NJ who is has 3 kids playing top six minutes doesn't have that, Hischier line 1, Hughes line 2, Mercer line 3.....

I was never advocating a "kid" line nor do I think there should be one, that's a recipe for disaster.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

They can't see it because they are so focused on the tree, they miss the goddamn forest, I mean shit, Terry took 4 years to get where he is, and these clowns want it in 30 games.....it's amazing.

Kaliyev has absolutely 100% improved and is getting chances, the real test is going to be next year, where do they slot him..... again, these guys think players are ranked 1-12, and you put 1-3 on line one, 4-6 on line 2, 7-9 on line 3, and 10-12 on line 4, if that's not how it's done, it's OMG this organization doesn't know what it's doing....yadda yadda yadda..... it's just now, much much louder, even than before in 2010 etc.

They see Zegras succeeding, and make no mistake, he is absolutely killing it, and then go OMG why isn't Turcotte doing the same thing, because you know, all top 10 picks are built the same in the same way at the same time from the same factory.

Okay--using this post to make a very, very public point for you.

Literally NO ONE here is saying this. NO one. Not one. Zero. Not even a minority opinion--you've spouted three statements that no one on this forum has made at all.

You are going to start racking up infractions every single time you invent a point to insult the forum at large.

You can be as angry as you want that no one is as smart as you, but you cannot insult others or gaslight the forum as a whole.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Well, except for the part that you completely missed what I said,
.

Sucks when that happens, huh?

Try some self-awareness moving forward.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Okay--using this post to make a very, very public point for you.

Literally NO ONE here is saying this. NO one. Not one. Zero. Not even a minority opinion--you've spouted three statements that no one on this forum has made at all.

You are going to start racking up infractions every single time you invent a point to insult the forum at large.

You can be as angry as you want that no one is as smart as you, but you cannot insult others or gaslight the forum as a whole.

So, just want to be clear, no post has ever inferred that kids should be playing top six minutes, 30 games into their career?

I mean technically you are right, no one has come out and said it, but f*** man, it's inferred in almost every other post.

 

[Mats26]

Well, except for the part that you completely missed what I said,

What kid line, do you think they are gonna line up Byfield, Turcotte and Kaliyev and say here go? No NHL team would do that......Hell even NJ who is has 3 kids playing top six minutes doesn't have that, Hischier line 1, Hughes line 2, Mercer line 3.....

I was never advocating a "kid" line nor do I think there should be one, that's a recipe for disaster.

Then u should of made it clear because you said "move Iafallo, Danault and Ardvisson on a 3rd line:
Which leaves Byfield as 2C with another prospect and Kempe?
Kopitar with 2 kids?
I don't get your top 9 combinations when this team clearly has a top 6 they are dying on the hill with.

 

[King'sPawn]

I think the Zegras Virus has hit this board hard.

Not sure if directed at me. If not, I apologize. But my complaints of the same issues have been made before Zegras was even drafted, let alone played a game.

I'll believe that when I see it. There is no way this coach will have a kid line in the top 6. If your talking a 3rd line it starts with Byfield at center then see who wins the spots from there.

I don't even know who is saying there should be a "kid line." I've seen plenty of people who want a kid suitable for the top-6 role to be played with vets so they have an opportunity to succeed. If the kid fails after a decent chunk of games, try another one there.

I'd love Byfield with, say, Iafallo and Moore/Arvidsson. Vets like Kopitar and Danault are the ones who can make adjustments to their linemates and still play their role. Why should a rookie have to adjust to the NHL AND play a role unsuitable for them with inferior linemates?

 

[Johnny Utah]

What I learned this year so far.

Iafallo is a stud.

Kempe has more potential.

Montreal made a huge mistake letting Danault go.

Quick still has something in the tank.

Lemmy is more than just a pest.

Roy is the Kings best D man.

The kids are barely get a shot.

Kayilev has a wicked shot - from the 4th line.

Everyone else sucks or is having a mediocre season, especially the vets.

 

[BigKing]

Honest question, do you think the next gm would entertain trading both players?

If this group of prospects actually pans out then no; of course, there is no next GM for 11/8 if these prospects pan out.

I do think Kopitar can be an effective player at the end of this contract if he wanted to do smaller one year deals. I only seeing him wanting to do that though if the team is good, like Blake going to a stacked SJ team at the end of his career. I'd put Doughty in the same boat.

Problem is that Doughty is playing almost 25 minutes a game and Kopitar is at over 21 minutes. I was on board with the off-season signings under the premise that the youth would get worked in and the minutes for 11/8 would be reduced. This season should be about getting better, yes, but mainly about setting up the future of this team.

The plan is to still win with 11/8. If that is the plan, they have to realize that it isn't this season and winning with those two still on the team means that they most likely are no longer the best players on the team. Driving them into the ground isn't the answer. My hope was that T-Mac felt secure with that big money/big year deal but he's acting just like every coach: trying to win tonight without caring about tomorrow. The idea of giving a guy that much money and term for a team that is openly tanking means to me that you are okay with no playoffs as long as you see improvement. Right now, it really looks like treading water results wise and a big L when it comes to the long term goal.

I was hoping for more integration of youth by now. I'm not blind to the fact that there are young guys on the team but the usage of the forwards is concerning. Byfield getting hurt threw a monkey wrench in things but I really need to see better implementation of the young forwards the second half of this season. To me, you don't bring in a bunch of AAAA guys for Ontario unless the plan is for Byfield/Turcotte/Kaliyev to be up in LA and not losing minutes to never-was's in Ontario. I do think all three will be up for good this season but then it comes down to how they are used.

Agree or disagree with their plan, I think there is still time to get it back on track this season. The real issue isn't so much the plan but rather the question of do they have the right execs/coaches/players for this to work? Right now, I'd say absolutely not because we've been watching this garbage for years now. It's one thing to show a lack of gumption during a tanking season (still unacceptable) but it is another when you add some name vets to the team and you still see the same f***ing problems.

 

[Mats26]

Not sure if directed at me. If not, I apologize. But my complaints of the same issues have been made before Zegras was even drafted, let alone played a game.



I don't even know who is saying there should be a "kid line." I've seen plenty of people who want a kid suitable for the top-6 role to be played with vets so they have an opportunity to succeed. If the kid fails after a decent chunk of games, try another one there.

I'd love Byfield with, say, Iafallo and Moore/Arvidsson. Vets like Kopitar and Danault are the ones who can make adjustments to their linemates and still play their role. Why should a rookie have to adjust to the NHL AND play a role unsuitable for them with inferior linemates?

General statement nothing directed to you. Just get a feeling the board is frustrated that our prospects are not developing as fast as a few like Zegras.

No kid line in a top 6 role everyone should agree with that. But if you move 3 vets down on your 3rd line like someone suggested, who will fill those spots?

As far as a kid line. We will eventually get there unless we trade them away. Unless you want more Moores, Lizottes on this team.

Can they at least try a few prospects together once in a while on the power play?
I guess having Byfield-Turcotte-Arty on the PP is too much to digest for the old crew on here.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

So, just want to be clear, no post has ever inferred that kids should be playing top six minutes, 30 games into their career?

I mean technically you are right, no one has come out and said it, but f*** man, it's inferred in almost every other post.

If you want to argue against the general idea that kids should be getting top six time, that's fine, you've made some good points there.

I'll break it down. The comments of yours that I boldfaced for emphasis included:

• "Troy Terry took 4 years to get where he is, and these clowns want it in 30 games.....it's amazing." Not one person has mentioned Terry, and not one person has mentioned that any prospect deserves a full-time top six role. There's a lot more nuance than that, and then also the insult.
• "these guys think players are ranked 1-12, and you put 1-3 on line one, 4-6 on line 2, 7-9 on line 3, and 10-12 on line 4, if that's not how it's done, it's OMG this organization doesn't know what it's doing." Like, I don't even know how to constructively break this down other than no one has said that AND you're just implying that everyone but you is an idiot.
  
• "They see Zegras succeeding, and make no mistake, he is absolutely killing it, and then go OMG why isn't Turcotte doing the same thing, because you know, all top 10 picks are built the same in the same way at the same time from the same factory." There have been some obvious Turcotte/Zegras discussions since both are in the same draft from the same program but that's about where it stops, no one has said anything like the above, only comparing their opportunities.

In short, what often happens is 1. you make a good point; 2. someone offers a rebuttal; 3. you ANGRILY disagree and start with the hyperbole, insults, and putting words in people's mouths at which point there's no return to normal discourse. The above three are examples of 3.

People here are pretty god damn good at disagreeing and many of us have been at it for 20 years, no one is saying get on board with what I say or else, and everyone has thick enough skin that they're most likely going to throw the ball back. But the above stuff is so distracting from the initial/main points that it's not productive.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

If you want to argue against the general idea that kids should be getting top six time, that's fine, you've made some good points there.

I'll break it down. The comments of yours that I boldfaced for emphasis included:

• "Troy Terry took 4 years to get where he is, and these clowns want it in 30 games.....it's amazing." Not one person has mentioned Terry, and not one person has mentioned that any prospect deserves a full-time top six role. There's a lot more nuance than that, and then also the insult.
• "these guys think players are ranked 1-12, and you put 1-3 on line one, 4-6 on line 2, 7-9 on line 3, and 10-12 on line 4, if that's not how it's done, it's OMG this organization doesn't know what it's doing." Like, I don't even know how to constructively break this down other than no one has said that AND you're just implying that everyone but you is an idiot.
  
• "They see Zegras succeeding, and make no mistake, he is absolutely killing it, and then go OMG why isn't Turcotte doing the same thing, because you know, all top 10 picks are built the same in the same way at the same time from the same factory." There have been some obvious Turcotte/Zegras discussions since both are in the same draft from the same program but that's about where it stops, no one has said anything like the above, only comparing their opportunities.

In short, what often happens is 1. you make a good point; 2. someone offers a rebuttal; 3. you ANGRILY disagree and start with the hyperbole, insults, and putting words in people's mouths at which point there's no return to normal discourse. The above three are examples of 3.

People here are pretty god damn good at disagreeing and many of us have been at it for 20 years, no one is saying get on board with what I say or else, and everyone has thick enough skin that they're most likely going to throw the ball back. But the above stuff is so distracting from the initial/main points that it's not productive.

Well, actually someone did bring up Terry lol, you must have missed it.

Nothing I've said is in anger, more shock and disbelief, but it's the same back 10 years ago in 2010, everyone was shitting a brick over the direction of the franchise, then again 2012, shitting a brick over the direction, and were literally shocked that they won etc. All I am saying is, it's the same pattern, no one knows it will result in the same result, but here we are again, shitting a brick about the direction....

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

General statement nothing directed to you. Just get a feeling the board is frustrated that our prospects are not developing as fast as a few like Zegras.

No kid line in a top 6 role everyone should agree with that. But if you move 3 vets down on your 3rd line like someone suggested, who will fill those spots?

As far as a kid line. We will eventually get there unless we trade them away. Unless you want more Moores, Lizottes on this team.

Can they at least try a few prospects together once in a while on the power play?
I guess having Byfield-Turcotte-Arty on the PP is too much to digest for the old crew on here.

I thought I had explained it better, but out of the top 9

Byfield, Turcotte and Kaliyev should be mixed in, one each line, with two vets etc, until they show they can slide up and work together, and then slide another kid in there, maybe Fagemo, when Arvidsson leaves etc.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Well, actually someone did bring up Terry lol, you must have missed it.

Nothing I've said is in anger, more shock and disbelief, but it's the same back 10 years ago in 2010, everyone was shitting a brick over the direction of the franchise, then again 2012, shitting a brick over the direction, and were literally shocked that they won etc. All I am saying is, it's the same pattern, no one knows it will result in the same result, but here we are again, shitting a brick about the direction....

I mean, you can go on the TBL forum and see much of the same is all.

I get it when you're preaching patience and process and you know I've been there too, but I also think a lot of this is more than fair critique.

The moment someone says they want a top six of Fagemo-Byfield-Vilardi / Madden-Turcotte-Thomas then hey, go to town, I just think you're not giving people credit for nuanced thought when you expect it in return.

 

[kilowatt]

The only thing I want is for one prospect to be on each line. We have room for four rookies in the forward group at any time. Vilardi already played top six minutes last year so it wouldn't be a stretch to see him there. If we want to let him dominate in the AHL for a while, that's fine. There's still guys like Kupari, Turcotte, and Byfield. Pair two vets with a rookie in our top nine and see what happens.

Iafallo - Kopitar - Kaliyev
Turcotte - Danault - Kempe
Brown - Byfield - Arvidsson
Lemieux - Lizotte - Moore

Send Kupari back down for a bit and rotate these guys throughout the year. I'm not saying that Turcotte, Kaliyev, or Byfield need to stick in their spots all year. By why not give them ten-game stretches? Then bring up Vilardi and Kupari. JAD. Fagemo. Give them all tastes, give them all things to work on.

I don't want our prospects to be thrown into the fire. I want them to feel confident playing their games, knowing what to expect, figuring out things to work on, and ultimately getting better this year in the AHL.

I'm not too concerned about us missing the playoffs because our prospects are making mistakes because our veterans are missing the playoffs all by themselves.

 

[BigKing]

I thought I had explained it better, but out of the top 9

Byfield, Turcotte and Kaliyev should be mixed in, one each line, with two vets etc, until they show they can slide up and work together, and then slide another kid in there, maybe Fagemo, when Arvidsson leaves etc.

This is it. I'm on board with the off-season signings because I want Iafallo to be attached to Byfield when the time comes. I want Kaliyev with Kopitar. What's the point of this "learning from Anze" stuff if you are playing with Lizotte (nice season from him but you get the point).

So the argument can be "Can't just hand Kaliyev 1st line responsibilities". Ok...then reduce Kopitar's minutes. Danault takes the heavy lifting defensive responsibilities. You don't necessarily have a top line but you spread things out throughout the lineup. Maybe Kaliyev doesn't hop over with Kopitar for D-zone faceoffs. It might be bumpy for a bit but the hope would be that it furthers the development of the prospects to the point where they are better players in the second half of the year. Instead, we're getting the same old "all-in with the usual suspects" in the Top 6 with limited quality minutes for the real future of this franchise.

 

[kilowatt]

I thought I had explained it better, but out of the top 9

Byfield, Turcotte and Kaliyev should be mixed in, one each line, with two vets etc, until they show they can slide up and work together, and then slide another kid in there, maybe Fagemo, when Arvidsson leaves etc.

That's literally what everyone is saying though. You're just being a dick about it and pretending you're smarter than everyone else.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

I mean, you can go on the TBL forum and see much of the same is all.

I get it when you're preaching patience and process and you know I've been there too, but I also think a lot of this is more than fair critique.

The moment someone says they want a top six of Fagemo-Byfield-Vilardi / Madden-Turcotte-Thomas then hey, go to town, I just think you're not giving people credit for nuanced thought when you expect it in return.

Probably, but I'm not seeing nuanced thought, I'm seeing people shit a brick because Kaliyev is playing on the 4th line, 30 games into his pro career, even though he's playing on the PP etc, I'm seeing people shit a brick because OMG the kid's aren't playing, ignoring....the kids that are playing....Kaliyev, Kupari, Lizotte, Andersson, Grundstrom, Durzi (though to be fair he didn't start and it took injuries) Bjornfoot, Mike Andersson, Roy, Vilardi, Kempe, Lemeiux (though he is 25, so meh) and I know the response, but uh, Vilardi is in the AHL, yea...where did he start? 23 man roster, 20 man playing roster and 11 players are 24 or younger, and would have been 12 but Byfield has been extremely snake bitten this year.... tell me how can you argue that the kids aren't playing?

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

That's literally what everyone is saying though. You're just being a dick about it and pretending you're smarter than everyone else.

No, I am saying WHEN THEY ARE READY.....not just throw them out there....there's a huge difference.

 

[AbsentMojo]

As much as I like Danault, I dont see that move making a ton of sense when the team isnt close to contending and there is a major logjam at center already. It makes more sense but still crowded if you move 2 of (Vilardi, Kupari, or Thomas) and pencil him in as your future 3C and playoff faceoff guy and shutdown D - ie Stoll.. Kopi is going to be around taking up the 1C and it will be awhile before Byfield unseats him there - so he goes 2C.. So where does Turcotte go? 4C? Then you have Helenius looking like a steal coming up as well. Someone said its a good problem to have, but I disagree - you dont want guys who are future top 6 developing in bottom 6 roles or out of position - risk hurting their development and their value. I took a look at elite prospects and Danault is listed as LW/C so he has done some wing - maybe that is the answer going fwd.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

This is it. I'm on board with the off-season signings because I want Iafallo to be attached to Byfield when the time comes. I want Kaliyev with Kopitar. What's the point of this "learning from Anze" stuff if you are playing with Lizotte (nice season from him but you get the point).

So the argument can be "Can't just hand Kaliyev 1st line responsibilities". Ok...then reduce Kopitar's minutes. Danault takes the heavy lifting defensive responsibilities. You don't necessarily have a top line but you spread things out throughout the lineup. Maybe Kaliyev doesn't hop over with Kopitar for D-zone faceoffs. It might be bumpy for a bit but the hope would be that it furthers the development of the prospects to the point where they are better players in the second half of the year. Instead, we're getting the same old "all-in with the usual suspects" in the Top 6 with limited quality minutes for the real future of this franchise.

Kaliyev wasn't ready to play with Kopitar beginning of the year, he's developing his pro game so he can get to that level....and yea, limited quality minutes, shit, that's the entire league, that's not a LA issue, that's a league issue.....again, you only have 18 players that are 22 are younger playing top six minutes....

Turcotte isn't ready to play day in day out as a 2nd line C, he had a good showing, absolutely, but he has to build on that....and you don't build on that playing 2nd line minutes against tough opponents and absolutely killing your confidence in the long run.