Speculation: 2021-22 LA Kings News, Rumors, Roster Thread Part VI

[GoldenBearHockey]

So QB assigned to Ont was allowed for conditioning stint? i assumed it was still waived but maybe not

That's what I thought...don't know, but I don't think he goes back to the O....it's NHL when he's ready......hopefully 4th line minutes.....playing 6 minutes a game, so he can...learn

 

[Peter James Bond III]

The difference between productive offensive players and bottom 6 players isn't just skill, its a mindset. Attacking players think differently, they are optomistic. They believe that pass will go thru, that they have the angle on the defender, that they have enough time to get that shot off before they get closed in on. They put themselves in positions to use their skills and succeed.

Other players, even quality ones, don't produce as much because they are pessimists. They think that that pass is going to get tipped, that the seem is going to close before the puck gets thru, that the shot they can get off isn't likely to be good enough to take. They think safely, protectively, and it lessens their offensive output.

The Kings have been developing optomistic thinking players into pessimistic ones. Safety first to the detriment of the attack.

Its been happening for over a decade now, back to Frolov and Kopitar. Drives me crazy when players with such world class offensive skills assume such pessimistic positions on the ice when the team so badly needs offense. Not just for goals, but to release pressure, change the tone of the game to a more favorable one and make the opposition think more negatively. Also makes it easier for the next generation of offensive players to step in to a more positive enviornment here.

Is Mike Cammalleri the last offense-first forward developed here?

This team has kept the ultra pessimistic Terry Murray thinking but lost the low event macho Sutter style that weaponized defense first hockey. And suffered for it. They just won't evolve the plan.

The only young forward in the last decade to get an unlimited leash in the top 6 was Iafallo. It took him 3+ years to become a legit top 6 forward. I suppose he had a few things going for him: he could be trusted to not F up most games…Kopitar liked playing with him…and he could dig pucks.

But yet, he could go pointless in 5 games and goal less in 10. No other young forward here would be allowed to have a stretch like that in a top 6 role. They need to give more forwards the Iafallo-Exemption (TM)
Develop on the 17 minute a night plan. Maybe not for 3 years, like
Alex. But you almost need to be Kopi-Endorsed(TM) it seems.

 

[KingsOfCali25]

At this point I'm in the feast-or-famine mindset. The organization makes these prospects play a certain role/style and tries removing what made them top prospects in the first place. Other teams adapt their play around the players skill sets while the Kings force their "system" on players. Let the prospects play their game and adapt as a coaching staff and organization.

Kopitar--Byfield--Vilardi
Kempe--Turcotte--Kaliyev
Iafallo--Danault--Arvidsson
Lemieux--Andersson--Moore

Brown = 13th Forward
Lizotte = 14th Forward
Grundstrum = taxi squad/AHL
AA = waiver/trade
Kupari = AHL/trade (LHD package)

Kopitar, Byfield, Vilardi = big tough puck possession line. When they get their games dialed in then you move them with the skilled guys.

Kempe, Turcotte, Kaliyev = Turcotte and Kaliyev already know how to play well with each other and Kempe brings speed and skill to them like Zegras did in the world Juniors last year. Turcotte and Kaliyev high IQ makes up for Kempe's lack of IQ.

Iafallo, Danault, Arvidsson = is the grinder puck retriever line that just wears the other teams down

Lemieux, Andersson, Moore = pest line that can get under teams skin and just fore-check the shit out of teams. Plus, they are easy to swap guys in and out for. Brown for Moore, Lizotte for Andersson. The line should be changing game by game to keep the energy and legs

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

The only young forward in the last decade to get an unlimited leash in the top 6 was Iafallo. It took him 3+ years to become a legit top 6 forward. I suppose he had a few things going for him: he could be trusted to not F up most games…Kopitar liked playing with him…and he could dig pucks.

But yet, he could go pointless in 5 games and goal less in 10. No other young forward here would be allowed to have a stretch like that. They need to give more forwards the Iafallo-Exemption (TM)
Develop on the 17 minute a night plan. Maybe not for 3 years, like
Alex. But you almost need to be Kopi-Endorsed. (TM)

In the last decade? So....Toffoli, Pearson, Kempe,

Interesting hot take......

 

[Mats26]

The only young forward in the last decade to get an unlimited leash in the top 6 was Iafallo. It took him 3+ years to become a legit top 6 forward. I suppose he had a few things going for him: he could be trusted to not F up most games…Kopitar liked playing with him…and he could dig pucks.

But yet, he could go pointless in 5 games and goal less in 10. No other young forward here would be allowed to have a stretch like that in a top 6 role. They need to give more forwards the Iafallo-Exemption (TM)
Develop on the 17 minute a night plan. Maybe not for 3 years, like
Alex. But you almost need to be Kopi-Endorsed(TM) it seems.

Thank God the "development" team didn't get his hands on him.

 

[Peter James Bond III]

In the last decade? So....Toffoli, Pearson, Kempe,

Interesting hot take......

All of them played line 3 time and Pearson and Kempe did not have PP minutes of Iafallo. But certainly the last 6 years. The Kings are the only team that would put Kovalchuk on line 4, for that matter. (After starting the year with something like 14 pts in 16 games…something like that)

 

[AbsentMojo]

At this point I'm in the feast-or-famine mindset. The organization makes these prospects play a certain role/style and tries removing what made them top prospects in the first place. Other teams adapt their play around the players skill sets while the Kings force their "system" on players. Let the prospects play their game and adapt as a coaching staff and organization.

Kopitar--Byfield--Vilardi
Kempe--Turcotte--Kaliyev
Iafallo--Danault--Arvidsson
Lemieux--Andersson--Moore

Brown = 13th Forward
Lizotte = 14th Forward
Grundstrum = taxi squad/AHL
AA = waiver/trade
Kupari = AHL/trade (LHD package)

Kopitar, Byfield, Vilardi = big tough puck possession line. When they get their games dialed in then you move them with the skilled guys.

Kempe, Turcotte, Kaliyev = Turcotte and Kaliyev already know how to play well with each other and Kempe brings speed and skill to them like Zegras did in the world Juniors last year. Turcotte and Kaliyev high IQ makes up for Kempe's lack of IQ.

Iafallo, Danault, Arvidsson = is the grinder puck retriever line that just wears the other teams down

Lemieux, Andersson, Moore = pest line that can get under teams skin and just fore-check the shit out of teams. Plus, they are easy to swap guys in and out for. Brown for Moore, Lizotte for Andersson. The line should be changing game by game to keep the energy and legs

This a one of a kind line combo idea - very creative. The 1st line has 3 centers.. interchangeable parts and safe for key faceoff situations... Byfield has the same puck position talent that Kopi has their corsi would be out of control

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

It's still waived? OHL is running so not sure if it is or not

The players that played in the A last year when juniors were canned/questionable--like Byfield, Turcotte, Kaliyev--get a continued exemption. Players that would be fresh this year do not, it's back to normal 20-y.o. rules now and going forward

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

All of them played line 3 time and Pearson and Kempe did not have PP minutes of Iafallo. But certainly the last 6 years. The Kings are the only team that would put Kovalchuk on line 4, for that matter. (After starting the year with something like 14 pts in 16 games…something like that)

14 pts in 14 games, and a -8, that's pretty specatular to be a PPG player and STILL end up with a -8,

But ok, past 6 years....who do you think should have been given top 6 minutes...and wasn't.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Yes, by all means let's hope the Kings do what these failed organizations did to extend their lack of relevance.

Which has nothing to do with it. The moves you want are very, very rare. Good organizations, bad organizations, it doesn't matter. The Wings did it too. Players have to force their way out. If they don't, the organization is going to try and retain names. Example after example. You might find the odd exception somewhere, but the Blues were ready to keep their Cup captain too, before he chose to leave. Then they still spent that money on older guys.

It's the nature of the business. Kopitar and Doughty aren't on every street corner, so you keep them if possible. Every organization works that way.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

The players that played in the A last year when juniors were canned/questionable--like Byfield, Turcotte, Kaliyev--get a continued exemption. Players that would be fresh this year do not, it's back to normal 20-y.o. rules now and going forward

Got it....does that extend to when they are called up etc, like Byfield, called up, can go back to the A etc?

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Got it....does that extend to when they are called up etc, like Byfield, called up, can go back to the A etc?

Correct, at least in my recollection. They are basically treated like full professionals at this point. UNLESS they went back to juniors.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

14 pts in 14 games, and a -8, that's pretty specatular to be a PPG player and STILL end up with a -8,

But ok, past 6 years....who do you think should have been given top 6 minutes...and wasn't.

Outside of the examples mentioned, I don't think there are any...and that's because (I'm pretty sure you've agreed with this) they didn't even have the chips. And they did try some guys out a little bit, like Amadio.

But that's what makes it all the more maddening now that they won't give some guys more extended looks, they all basically get the one-size-fits-all treatment, you start on the bottom line.

Part of it screams lazy bench management too, TM seems to just want to be able to plug and play guys in all situations with no specialists and seems pretty grumpy if a PK messes up lines. And it makes me upset because, as an example, part of the reason to get Danault was to reduce Kopitar's load, and that hasn't happened at all. In fact, Kopitar's TOI is up year-over-year for the third year in a row.

There's no creativity, just play your safety blankets as much as possible, don't hold vets accountable, bury youth on bottom lines, banish them if they make mistakes.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Outside of the examples mentioned, I don't think there are any...and that's because (I'm pretty sure you've agreed with this) they didn't even have the chips. And they did try some guys out a little bit, like Amadio.

But that's what makes it all the more maddening now that they won't give some guys more extended looks, they all basically get the one-size-fits-all treatment, you start on the bottom line.

Part of it screams lazy bench management too, TM seems to just want to be able to plug and play guys in all situations with no specialists and seems pretty grumpy if a PK messes up lines. And it makes me upset because, as an example, part of the reason to get Danault was to reduce Kopitar's load, and that hasn't happened at all. In fact, Kopitar's TOI is up year-over-year for the third year in a row.

There's no creativity, just play your safety blankets as much as possible, don't hold vets accountable, bury youth on bottom lines, banish them if they make mistakes.

That was my point, they didn't have the chips to play,

As far as bury youth and banish them, I pointed this out earlier, they have 12 players playing that are 24 years or younger.....tell me how that's being buried, or banished.....

 

[AbsentMojo]

Which has nothing to do with it. The moves you want are very, very rare. Good organizations, bad organizations, it doesn't matter. The Wings did it too. Players have to force their way out. If they don't, the organization is going to try and retain names. Example after example. You might find the odd exception somewhere, but the Blues were ready to keep their Cup captain too, before he chose to leave. Then they still spent that money on older guys.

It's the nature of the business. Kopitar and Doughty aren't on every street corner, so you keep them if possible. Every organization works that way.

There are non-hockey related things that factor into it like keep fan heros in around, community relations, jersey/swag sales and personal relationships built w management - that make moving guys like them even more unlikely.. The NE Patriots and Oakland As are the only 2 orgs i can think of that would trade anyone.

 

[KINGS17]

There are non-hockey related things that factor into it like keep fan heros in around, community relations, jersey/swag sales and personal relationships built w management - that make moving guys like them even more unlikely.. The NE Patriots and Oakland As are the only 2 orgs i can think of that would trade anyone.

Well, the Dodgers used to do it all the time, and they were almost always in contention, which is what the fans actually wanted.

Steve Garvey - Bye
Davey Lopes - Bye
Ron Cey - Bye
Don Sutton - Bye
Fernando Valenzuela - Bye

Fernando is a bigger LA icon than Kopitar or Doughty will ever dream of being, and was shipped out of town at 30 years of age.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

That was my point, they didn't have the chips to play,

As far as bury youth and banish them, I pointed this out earlier, they have 12 players playing that are 24 years or younger.....tell me how that's being buried, or banished.....

As another aside on the Kopitar point, we were sold Danault would be taking some of his PK time too...welp, Kopi's PK time is only down 7 seconds a game...lol.

They have 12 players playing that are 24 years and younger...yet the average age of the regular top six is 30, and the youngest is Kempe at 25. Find me another team whose average age of the top six is so much older than the average age of the bottom six (top six = 30, bottom six = 22).

 

[Lt Dan]

GBH this is happening to you in this thread.

 

[KINGS17]

GBH this is happening to you in this thread.

Don't go in the head Sgt. Hartman!

 

[Mats26]

Possible Grundstrom – Turcotte – Kupari kid line tonight!

How dare they put kids together. Burn them all at the stake

 

[Maynard]

GBH this is happening to you in this thread.

He makes good arguments and the discussion could go ok. If only he weren’t an arrogant pigheaded know-it-all douche.

 

[lumbergh]

So much sphincter-pinching anguish over a team that is on pace for 87 points, having worked in games for several rookies on forward and defense. If I told you this is what we’d see 31 games in, wouldn’t most of you be like, “okay not bad!” But hey, this is what a message board is for, right?

 

[Bandit]

Well, the Dodgers used to do it all the time, and they were almost always in contention, which is what the fans actually wanted.

Steve Garvey - Bye
Davey Lopes - Bye
Ron Cey - Bye
Don Sutton - Bye
Fernando Valenzuela - Bye

Fernando is a bigger LA icon than Kopitar or Doughty will ever dream of being, and was shipped out of town at 30 years of age.

Yeah but baseball isn’t really a sport.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Possible Grundstrom – Turcotte – Kupari kid line tonight!

How dare they put kids together. Burn them all at the stake

Before we start patting each other on the back realize they're literally out of options to the extent that Ontario is PTOing forwards.

So much sphincter-pinching anguish over a team that is on pace for 87 points, having worked in games for several rookies on forward and defense. If I told you this is what we’d see 31 games in, wouldn’t most of you be like, “okay not bad!” But hey, this is what a message board is for, right?

If you told me that 31 games in people would be trying this hard to deliberately misrepresent the point I'd be a little more shocked.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

IIRC

Scratched: Tkachev, Andersson
Protocol: Brown
Injury: AA
Mystery: Thomas (injury?) Madden (Covid?) Tynan (Covid?)
PTO: Pavlychev (yay!) and Pastujov (ducks brother)
Frk and JAD and Byfield back to Ontario

Ontario STILL played a forward short last night

So before we start making facetious comments about Tm playing a kid line like it's some kind of gotcha, realize he was quite literally out of options aside from playing Tkachev (LOL) or bringing back Frk.