Speculation: 2021-22 LA Kings News, Rumors, Roster Thread Part VI

[robitaillefan]

Why are we not bringing gabe back up?

fill me in here ….

 

[King'sPawn]

The players themselves aren't the problem - its the organization's belief that they can still make a playoff run because they are here therefore the kids must first prove that they won't hurt that particular cause before being put into a position to show what they can do.

You can easily sign a bridge or two to get the kids through, they don't need to be lifers seemingly given permanent roles by birthright. There is simply no reason for Doughty and Kopitar to be given 1:30 of every PP. Brown has one PP point since Covid first hit. Those three get virtually every key shift, every last minute of one goal games, no matter how they have played that particular game.

Its the very definition of a glass ceiling. Aggression, enthusiasm, naive positivity, all hallmarks of youth are completely stifled here in favor of settling down into an older veteran style of game - a playoff style of game for a team that isn't playoff caliber.

How long do the kids have to wait before being put in a position to thrive? THE reason is that Kopitar and Doughty want to win and demanded - literally by Doughty who also claimed Anze wanted the same - reinforcements to play meaningful games while they still can.

Who exactly is benefiting from their presence? Is anybody doing better under their tutelage? Folks tried to give Anze some credit for Vilardi last year, but where is he now? Is anybody "more professional " following them as role models? This team lays stinkers every 7 or 8 games. There are no playoffs, no success, no progress, what is happening here that can be pointed to as a positive impact of keeping them?

These are all managerial issues not knowing hiw to assess and/or set expectations.

I still believe players who have inherent value to the team, and Kopitar serve as a dual-threat on both ends of the ice is valuable. He is skilled and responsible. Similar to Doughty.

Giving them all those minutes is certainly a problem. I agree. Durzi has outplayed Doughty on the PP. No forward has really outplayed Kopitar, not because Kopitar's been great, but the forwards are just mediocre. Brown doesn't belong on the powerplay, at all.

Again, your concerns stem back to management/coaching issues. I don't see how trading away the vets will resolve the issue, since they'll still chase the cup with vets.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

 

[kings11]

I dont think JAD played wing with Lizotte and Wagner. That was Kempe no? It was a good line.
JAD centered Moore and Grundstrom last year and a lot of nights that line was the only bright spot on the team. He got sent down this year and now looks worse than he did last year. Like he lost his confidence and spark.
Developing the young players is tough and I think we have one here that they mixed around too much and will go to another team and carve out a nice career. Vilardi and Kupari probably next.

You sure? Not last season but the season before.. the first time JAD came up he played RW

 

[HookKing]

These are all managerial issues not knowing hiw to assess and/or set expectations.

I still believe players who have inherent value to the team, and Kopitar serve as a dual-threat on both ends of the ice is valuable. He is skilled and responsible. Similar to Doughty.

Giving them all those minutes is certainly a problem. I agree. Durzi has outplayed Doughty on the PP. No forward has really outplayed Kopitar, not because Kopitar's been great, but the forwards are just mediocre. Brown doesn't belong on the powerplay, at all.

Again, your concerns stem back to management/coaching issues. I don't see how trading away the vets will resolve the issue, since they'll still chase the cup with vets.

On what planet is this?

 

[Schmooley]

You sure? Not last season but the season before.. the first time JAD came up he played RW

I was asking you cause I cant remember. I only remember Kempe Lizotte and Wagner playing together. They looked good actually.

 

[kings11]

I was asking you cause I cant remember. I only remember Kempe Lizotte and Wagner playing together. They looked good actually.

Damnit, getting old and lazy sucks.. lol
Give me a few to look it up

 

[King'sPawn]

On what planet is this?

Sorry, I should have specified. The planet of people who don't enjoy watching Kopitar and Doughty pass it back and forth, leading to a blocked shot.

 

[kings11]

I was asking you cause I cant remember. I only remember Kempe Lizotte and Wagner playing together. They looked good actually.

So his first point was in a line with Amadio and Carts.. but he scored his first goal last season with Moore.. so I don’t know now lol

 

[Docgonzo]

This team needs a prospect the likes of Doughty to come up, and I don’t mean skill wise either. Drew came into the NHL with a cockiness and swagger and took over the D corps. No prospect has really come in and taken over as the next leader which is what is needed to move on.

Most teams having a changing of the guard when the youth wrestle it away from the vets but that hasn’t happened yet. All the youth seem fine deferring to the vets instead.

 

[HookKing]

Sorry, I should have specified. The planet of people who don't enjoy watching Kopitar and Doughty pass it back and forth, leading to a blocked shot.

Well try looking at the numbers and you will see DD has much better ones than Durzi on the PP.

 

[King'sPawn]

Well try looking at the numbers and you will see DD has much better ones than Durzi on the PP.

Hmm, 6 power play points with 44 minutes of powerplay time versus 4 powerplay points in 32 minutes.

Interesting planet of these "much better numbers."

 

[King'sPawn]

I understand your position but you’re wrong on a few of these guys and why they’ve been put in said development paths..

Kaliyev has been put in a place where he can develop an all around game and focus on aspects of his game that will make him successful in the NHL.. and you know what, it’s working! His game has improved and it’s noticeable, none more than his board play and his compete level..

Kupari is a grinder as he lacks the hockey IQ to take advantage of his physical tools, though that could also be because he is raw. He isn’t a top 6 guys so he’s where he should be.

JAD for as much as people love him just hasn’t been able to translate his AHL play to the NHL.. though he did look good when he was on the wing with Lizotte and wags a few years back.

Vilardi was tried as a center because that the position where he had the most value to the org. The truth is, he was at his best on the wing when he was in juniors and that’s why they’re given him a look there now.

Sorry, I missed this.

I understand rounding out Kaliyev's game. My concern, as mentioned before, is developing the offensive abilities and putting these players in roles they are suited for.

Kaliyev is put on a path the org has done - turn the players into non-liabilities, but at the same time not being exceptional offensive threats.

The NHL is not where you learn to grind and round out your game. That's what the AHL is for.

My concern with Kaliyev's path isn't that he'll bust. But instead, a gifted forward is turned into a middle-six player who is passable as an NHLer instead of becoming the offensive threat he projected to become.

Kupari's skill level was vaunted in 2018. I agree his sense leaves a lot to be desired. But he had the projection to be a skilled player. Think Athanasiou-type of impact. Not high end. Again, not a grinder type.

JAD is a bottom-six player. He was an all-purpose type. I'm fine with his role. I am a bit bitter that despite some chemistry with bottom-six players, he was just relegated to the AHL until circumstances forced a callup.

Vilardi's skating has been an issue since 2017. I understand things change, but when they added Turcotte and Byfield, coupled with his struggles at center last year, why did they wait until a chunk into this season to decide playing him at wing?

It goes back to how are they planning and evaluating? Gathering an awesome pool of prospects means nothing if you struggle to develop or manage them.

Right now, it just looks like they're going the spaghetti method - throw it all at the wall and just look at what sticks.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

That's a good general view but as you point out you just went by TOI so some guys are absolutely missing. But still, thank you for the illustration, and it matches up with something I post pretty frequently about the raw numbers of 18-22 y.o.s in the league (in short, obviously there's like a handful of 18 year olds and it basically doubles every year until 21).

The other thing is no one is making the sweeping argument that we're trying to load up the top six with youth or something--only that it's a perfect scenario for getting guys some time up there. It's mind blowing that a kid like Kaliyev has spent a grand total of 26 even strength minutes with Danault, 28 minutes with Kopitar, and 240 minutes with other guys.

Looking at some other examples around the league, Robert Thomas has spent 312 minutes next to Tarasenko. Jordan Kyrou just missed the age cutoff and similar thing. That's a Stanley Cup contender unafraid to have Thomas-Kyrou-Tarasenko out there for big minutes.

Even watching tonight the Ducks--with Zegras (2C) out, they have Lundestrom moving up to 2C.

Car. you already pointed out, Necas was the pick right after Vilardi.

Washington you missed both McMichael who FINALLY got moved down for Backstrom's return and Aleksei Protas who is still playing 2RW.

The Isles' youngest forward is Kiefer Bellows and he's 2RW. Ottawa's entire top six outside Connor Brown is 19-23. Detroit has not only Raymond but also Rasmussen and Zadina in the top six. And so on.

The biggest thing with all of the above teams isn't just guys getting extended looks in the top six--it's that their bottom sixes are OLDER players, not a place to quarantine all the youth. It's a consequence of the Kings trying so hard to make the playoffs and not trusting the youth--while the contenders in the above list are showing how it should be done, line guys up next to vets, let them learn/show out by playing bigger tougher minutes. What's the point in training a guy at 1LW in the AHL then burying him on the 4th in the NHL?

So, in summary--yeah, it's problematic that--using Kaliyev as an example, he's played 40 minutes with our top-sixers while other similar players have played over 300 with theirs on much more competitive teams. Hell, i'm going through a bunch of depth charts now and the only example of a serious prospect under 23 playing bottom six on ANY team is Newhook playing 3C for the Avs, which makes a ton of sense. In most cases, it's the AAAA players or 'traditional' NHL bottom sixers. Kings' are literally the only ones taking this approach and I don't think it's because they're reinventing the wheel. Don't get me wrong, I love our 4th line, but you have to reward a guy with some extra love at some point. I don't understand why it would be controversial that we want our top-six at-bats to get some top-six batting practice.

Edit: found one, Cole Sillinger, but he's about to get sent back to juniors anyway I thought.

100% misses Rasmussen, Zadina has not been playing top six minutes, not sure how you conclude he is playing top six, you bring up Bellows, he's played 12 freaking games, and is there because of Covid etc, Protas has been up and down the lineup, and is playing now because Mantha is on IR, question are you the same level of upset that neither Protas nor McMichael are getting PP minutes? Or does that not matter because, they slotted into a top six role when injuries occur?

You say you can only find Newhook, but you ignore Lafrierre in NY playing bottom six, Dach is now slated in the bottom six, organizations move their players around on an hourly basis it seems like,

But if you are this upset that a 20 year old who hasn't played a full season pro isn't getting top six minutes because of whatever reason, by all means, be upset, but I tend to think you are missing the bigger picture, where guys are adjusting to playing an 82 game season, and adjusting to the conditioning that the NHL has, it's not the same as the AHL or OHL,

You rail that the kids aren't being allowed to play, yet as soon as injuries happen, where did Turcotte play? They could have EASILY put Moore or Lizotte up there like they did last time this happened.

Sounds like you are frustrated because things aren't moving at YOUR desired pace, while ignoring the human element of the game.

As far as controversial etc, none of our kids, have played a full season of pro hockey yet, and not all prospects are built the same, Robert Thomas, your example, started out....on the 4th line, 13 minutes a game his first pro year, with St. Louis, next year, 3rd line minutes, at 14 minutes a game, last year only 33 games, back down to 13 minutes a game, and this year FOUR YEARS IN, he's at 19 minutes a game....

Guess that's not optimal development though....

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

This team needs a prospect the likes of Doughty to come up, and I don’t mean skill wise either. Drew came into the NHL with a cockiness and swagger and took over the D corps. No prospect has really come in and taken over as the next leader which is what is needed to move on.

Most teams having a changing of the guard when the youth wrestle it away from the vets but that hasn’t happened yet. All the youth seem fine deferring to the vets instead.

Not many prospects have that these days, that being drilled out of them from minor hockey on up unfortunately

 

[Johnny Utah]

Seems like Vilardi is done.

Blake signed Danault so essentially there are only two center spots behind Kopitar and Danault for the next 2.5 seasons when Kopitar is a 37-38 UFA.

So essentially Turcotte, Vilardi, Byfield and Kupari are all battling for those two spots. That doesn’t include Lizotte who seems like a year to year player but the Kings seem high on him this year. You can argue the Kings might shift 1-2 players to the wing but one of them already made comments he doesn’t like that. It’s best to move on from 1-2 of those players and get a D man.

How many more games do we have to roll out Wolanin and or Maata. No toughness on the backend whatsoever. Edler is 35.

When healthy….next years D. Soft as hell.

Doughty-Anderson
Bjornfot-Roy
Durzi-Walker
Extra: ???

 

[kings11]

Sorry, I missed this.

I understand rounding out Kaliyev's game. My concern, as mentioned before, is developing the offensive abilities and putting these players in roles they are suited for.

Kaliyev is put on a path the org has done - turn the players into non-liabilities, but at the same time not being exceptional offensive threats.

The NHL is not where you learn to grind and round out your game. That's what the AHL is for.

My concern with Kaliyev's path isn't that he'll bust. But instead, a gifted forward is turned into a middle-six player who is passable as an NHLer instead of becoming the offensive threat he projected to become.

Kupari's skill level was vaunted in 2018. I agree his sense leaves a lot to be desired. But he had the projection to be a skilled player. Think Athanasiou-type of impact. Not high end. Again, not a grinder type.

JAD is a bottom-six player. He was an all-purpose type. I'm fine with his role. I am a bit bitter that despite some chemistry with bottom-six players, he was just relegated to the AHL until circumstances forced a callup.

Vilardi's skating has been an issue since 2017. I understand things change, but when they added Turcotte and Byfield, coupled with his struggles at center last year, why did they wait until a chunk into this season to decide playing him at wing?

It goes back to how are they planning and evaluating? Gathering an awesome pool of prospects means nothing if you struggle to develop or manage them.

Right now, it just looks like they're going the spaghetti method - throw it all at the wall and just look at what sticks.

I had a good response but this damn site keeps refreshing and I lost it so I’ll just reply to each individual..
Kaliyev is a gifted scorer and everyone knows it, the problem was he put too much of an emphasis on it and the rest of his game lagged.
He’s a future top 3 without question but now he’s learned to do more than just shoot and he’s looking really, really good. His board play is improving drastically as has his playmaking.
I wouldn’t worry about his him being turned into a grinder as he’s gotten a ton of scoring chances but hasn’t converted… and that’s the reason he’s on the 4th line… to show him that there’s more than just shooting the puck, because when it’s not going in you can’t just be a liability.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

I had a good response but this damn site keeps refreshing and I lost it so I’ll just reply to each individual..
Kaliyev is a gifted scorer and everyone knows it, the problem was he put too much of an emphasis on it and the rest of his game lagged.
He’s a future top 3 without question but now he’s learned to do more than just shoot and he’s looking really, really good. His board play is improving drastically as has his playmaking.
I wouldn’t worry about his him being turned into a grinder as he’s gotten a ton of scoring chances but hasn’t converted… and that’s the reason he’s on the 4th line… to show him that there’s more than just shooting the puck, because when it’s not going in you can’t just be a liability.

Quit using common sense around here......everyone knows, the minute a player plays bottom six, that's where they stay regardless.....

 

[kings11]

Sorry, I missed this.

I understand rounding out Kaliyev's game. My concern, as mentioned before, is developing the offensive abilities and putting these players in roles they are suited for.

Kaliyev is put on a path the org has done - turn the players into non-liabilities, but at the same time not being exceptional offensive threats.

The NHL is not where you learn to grind and round out your game. That's what the AHL is for.

My concern with Kaliyev's path isn't that he'll bust. But instead, a gifted forward is turned into a middle-six player who is passable as an NHLer instead of becoming the offensive threat he projected to become.

Kupari's skill level was vaunted in 2018. I agree his sense leaves a lot to be desired. But he had the projection to be a skilled player. Think Athanasiou-type of impact. Not high end. Again, not a grinder type.

JAD is a bottom-six player. He was an all-purpose type. I'm fine with his role. I am a bit bitter that despite some chemistry with bottom-six players, he was just relegated to the AHL until circumstances forced a callup.

Vilardi's skating has been an issue since 2017. I understand things change, but when they added Turcotte and Byfield, coupled with his struggles at center last year, why did they wait until a chunk into this season to decide playing him at wing?

It goes back to how are they planning and evaluating? Gathering an awesome pool of prospects means nothing if you struggle to develop or manage them.

Right now, it just looks like they're going the spaghetti method - throw it all at the wall and just look at what sticks.

Seema like Kupari is on the development path and will be tried out at center but eventually move to the wing.. his IQ is lacking but he has the toolbox for sure.. his scouting reports indicated as much, all the tools but not the hockey sense. I do see the AA comps but he has a lot of growing and learning to do.. In the NHL he’s on the line he’s suppose to be so I don’t see a reason to worry and that’s also why I think we’ll see a ton of moves by the TDL.

 

[kings11]

Quit using common sense around here......everyone knows, the minute a player plays bottom six, that's where they stay regardless.....

Fine!!!! We SUCK!!!! Lol
Now we just need Q to return and I think we’ll get a better look at our future and hopefully start trading away the placeholders

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Fine!!!! We SUCK!!!! Lol
Now we just need Q to return and I think we’ll get a better look at our future and hopefully start trading away the placeholders

Agreed, I think when he is up he sticks, be it 1st line W, or 4th line C, it doesn't really matter, what does, is how he adjusts, but everyone is in the sky is falling mode because our kids who are 20 years and younger and have less than a year of pro experience in total, aren't playing in the NHL...that's just ludicrous.

 

[bland]

I had a good response but this damn site keeps refreshing and I lost it so I’ll just reply to each individual..
Kaliyev is a gifted scorer and everyone knows it, the problem was he put too much of an emphasis on it and the rest of his game lagged.
He’s a future top 3 without question but now he’s learned to do more than just shoot and he’s looking really, really good. His board play is improving drastically as has his playmaking.
I wouldn’t worry about his him being turned into a grinder as he’s gotten a ton of scoring chances but hasn’t converted… and that’s the reason he’s on the 4th line… to show him that there’s more than just shooting the puck, because when it’s not going in you can’t just be a liability.

Its actually the exact opposite of this.

Kaliyev is NOT getting a ton of scoring chances and his game is NOT rounding out. His chances are of the grinding variety, mostly half chances requiring individual efforts. His game is limited and will likely always be, so you need to flesh out what he does bring to the table and you do so by putting him in position to finish chances based on quality, deceptive puck movement to create time and space, not jamming pucks in front and the occasional outnumbered attack every dozen games or so.

Kaliyev is not a well-rounded player, you didn't draft him for that. He is a weapon, nit a 200 foot multi-use player. You draft him to finish plays and poach goals with quick hands that others don't have the aptitude to use. He is NOT developing that skill here in this role.

 

[KINGS17]

1) he won it over
2) considering how much you crow about having the foresight to want to trade away a terrible, uninspiring leader in his late 20s, I'm surprised you would want any prospect to follow his path.

1. Kopitar didn't have any competition for the job when he arrived, and the Kings didn't try to get a vet who could compete. Instead, Kopitar's main competition for the job was Armstrong. So, yes Kopitar was handed the job.

2. My foresight was pretty decent. I always said Kopitar is a good player, but I also said his contract was a mistake for the Kings and they wouldn't win jack with him on his current deal.

You were wrong about trading Jeff Carter when he had value as well, so there is that.

 

[bland]

These are all managerial issues not knowing hiw to assess and/or set expectations.

I still believe players who have inherent value to the team, and Kopitar serve as a dual-threat on both ends of the ice is valuable. He is skilled and responsible. Similar to Doughty.

Giving them all those minutes is certainly a problem. I agree. Durzi has outplayed Doughty on the PP. No forward has really outplayed Kopitar, not because Kopitar's been great, but the forwards are just mediocre. Brown doesn't belong on the powerplay, at all.

Again, your concerns stem back to management/coaching issues. I don't see how trading away the vets will resolve the issue, since they'll still chase the cup with vets.

See, I don't think that would be the case. They are patronizing Kopitar and Doughty for their previous efforts and contract status, I don't think this would be the case if they weren't here. The current direction is based on their specific presence and frankly, complaining, at least in Doughty's case.

 

[HookKing]

Hmm, 6 power play points with 44 minutes of powerplay time versus 4 powerplay points in 32 minutes.

Interesting planet of these "much better numbers."

Nice try. Just keep moving the goal posts. Doughty in no way has been outplayed by Durzi on the pp.