Speculation: 2021-22 LA Kings News, Rumors, Roster Thread Part VI

[cyclones22]

Well, it's certainly in part a systematic problem. Our system sucks. The Vegas system allows them to plug and play replacements like Ben Hutton and Amadios and they still continue to win. Adding in identity, leadership, culture or whatever intangible you want to use, the Kings don't have it. It was the same exact thing I felt when Carolina steamrolled us missing half their lineup. Neither Carolina (this iteration) or Vegas has won the Cup yet, but they're a helluva lot closer than we are. There's an organizational stench on the Kings right now. Let's all just pray that Byfield is so good that even TMc can't f it up with how he's deployed.

 

[tny760]

i'm personally frustrated by seeing a bottom 10 offense, bottom 10 defense, and bottom 5 special teams, out of a playoff spot.. and i see almost no change in the lineup or system whatsoever except when covid-necessitated

this feels like the very definition of "doing the same thing and expecting different results"

is it the players? the coach? the management? probably a bit of every one of those, but holy f*** change something! piss someone off, put someone in an uncomfortable position, waive someone, something! if i have to watch this drop pass PP breakout fail to the enter the zone for 1:30 one more time..

 

[cyclones22]

i'm personally frustrated by seeing a bottom 10 offense, bottom 10 defense, and bottom 5 special teams, out of a playoff spot.. and i see almost no change in the lineup or system whatsoever except when covid-necessitated

this feels like the very definition of "doing the same thing and expecting different results"

is it the players? the coach? the management? probably a bit of every one of those, but holy f*** change something! piss someone off, put someone in an uncomfortable position, waive someone, something! if i have to watch this drop pass PP breakout fail to the enter the zone for 1:30 one more time..

And I'm sick of listening to Jim Fox or even Nick (and I actually love both of these guys for what they do for the Kings) on the radio, mention that they're hoping that the one of the young players takes the bull by the horns and helps the vets out. FFS, then play them in positions to help those vets. Not watching them from the bench with their bottom 6 linemates but on the ice with them. "Really need Kaliyev to be a consistent difference maker"...on the 4th line? Good f'ing luck with that. You'll pair a rookie Mikey Anderson with Doughty for an entire season, but heaven forbid you stick a high skill rookie (don't bring up 24 year old AI as a counterpoint, we've discussed this) on Kopi's wing for longer than 2 periods before demoting him. Stop lamenting the youth not stepping up to help the vets when you're asking them to carry a bottom 6 line in a checking/grinding role. FFS.

 

[DoktorJeep]

I'm all for discussion. I just don't see why people think trading vets will fix the issues.

Sorry for participating in the discussion of random thoughts. I forgot we're only allowed to participate in groupthink.

I don’t think trading the vets fixes anything, but it is part of the solution. And we are really only talking about Doughty. The other guys are too old and near the ends of their contracts to get a return that moves the needle.

I don’t see either Brown or Quick bringing back a first or can’t miss prospect, so I expect them to ride out their contracts and hopefully retire as Kings. Kopitar costs too much to trade even with retention. And he’d be a #2 or #3 C on a team who acquires him for a team looking to go on deep runs. So it’s just easier to keep him as the one legacy vet after next season.

Doughty has the most trade value, but his contract is a deal killer. But Doughty for something like $8M changes things massively. It could be somewhere similar to what Seth Jones went for, with Doughty’s age as a minus, but his pedigree and relative discount increasing his market value.

Knowing Sleepy Rob, if he manages to hold onto his job, he’ll probably wait to trade Doughty 3 years down the road.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

The Kings have been so terrible and hopeless the last few years that I’ve grown to become apathetic towards the current state of this team. Seems like they’re just churning their wheels and are going to remain in the exact same place until some of these prospects start making a major impact (which could still be another season or two, or more).

I’m really indifferent with what happens with the team now, which I guess is also a reflection of how a lot of the veterans perform on this team. They look checked out and disinterested. No wonder they’re playing to empty crowds and it feels dead inside the arena formerly known as Staples Center.

 

[DoktorJeep]

i'm personally frustrated by seeing a bottom 10 offense, bottom 10 defense, and bottom 5 special teams, out of a playoff spot.. and i see almost no change in the lineup or system whatsoever except when covid-necessitated

this feels like the very definition of "doing the same thing and expecting different results"

is it the players? the coach? the management? probably a bit of every one of those, but holy f*** change something! piss someone off, put someone in an uncomfortable position, waive someone, something! if i have to watch this drop pass PP breakout fail to the enter the zone for 1:30 one more time..

The results this year are basically the same as last year so far. They’re like 1 point, maybe 2, better compared to last year’s team through the same number of games. It’s feels worse because money was spent and kids are inserted. But since the on ice product is bad to mediocre, it’s right to question management’s ability to build a winner.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

The Kings have been so terrible and hopeless the last few years that I’ve grown to become apathetic towards the current state of this team. Seems like they’re just churning their wheels and are going to remain in the exact same place until some of these prospects start making a major impact (which could still be another season or two, or more).

I’m really indifferent with what happens with the team now, which I guess is also a reflection of how a lot of the veterans perform on this team. They look checked out and disinterested. No wonder they’re playing to empty crowds and it feels dead inside the arena formerly known as Staples Center.

I am too. The only reason I'm so mad about last night's game is I was captive in the arena so I couldn't just turn the TV off and walk into another room after driving thru traffic for hours.

At this point it's clear to everyone that these guys don't have the guts to do what it takes. They've taken on too many conflicting goals to do any one single thing well and as a result they're just below-average at everything while potentially kneecapping the future while they're at it.

I also fully expect after all the "WOOO YEAH TURCOTTE YOU EARNED IT CONGRATS" fanfare posted all over the broadcast and social media that they'll quietly send him back down in favor of vets getting healthy....so they can pat themselves on the back and say see? we did something even though not one youth roster move they have made has been voluntary.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

I am too. The only reason I'm so mad about last night's game is I was captive in the arena so I couldn't just turn the TV off and walk into another room after driving thru traffic for hours.

At this point it's clear to everyone that these guys don't have the guts to do what it takes. They've taken on too many conflicting goals to do any one single thing well and as a result they're just below-average at everything while potentially kneecapping the future while they're at it.

I also fully expect after all the "WOOO YEAH TURCOTTE YOU EARNED IT CONGRATS" fanfare posted all over the broadcast and social media that they'll quietly send him back down in favor of vets getting healthy....so they can pat themselves on the back and say see? we did something even though not one youth roster move they have made has been voluntary.

Self fulfilling prophecy much? I mean you bitched for 30 games, that Turcotte should get a cup of coffee....learn what he has to work on...then go back down and work on it.......and then you are bitching that they are gonna send him back down....so which is it?

BTW, Turcotte looked great last night, if he continues that, I don't think he should be sent down.....you send Kupari down with that list of homework and let Turcotte play, but thats what I would do..... regardless, I don't think you can bitch that they aren't bringing them up to get a list of what to work on, then turn around and bitch that they did JUST THAT and send him back down to work on it, seems like it should be....one or the other.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

I am too. The only reason I'm so mad about last night's game is I was captive in the arena so I couldn't just turn the TV off and walk into another room after driving thru traffic for hours.

At this point it's clear to everyone that these guys don't have the guts to do what it takes. They've taken on too many conflicting goals to do any one single thing well and as a result they're just below-average at everything while potentially kneecapping the future while they're at it.

I also fully expect after all the "WOOO YEAH TURCOTTE YOU EARNED IT CONGRATS" fanfare posted all over the broadcast and social media that they'll quietly send him back down in favor of vets getting healthy....so they can pat themselves on the back and say see? we did something even though not one youth roster move they have made has been voluntary.

You don't them them breaking camp with Kupari and Kaliyev, and them STILL playing is voluntary? Interesting take.

 

[HookKing]

Self fulfilling prophecy much? I mean you bitched for 30 games, that Turcotte should get a cup of coffee....learn what he has to work on...then go back down and work on it.......and then you are bitching that they are gonna send him back down....so which is it?

BTW, Turcotte looked great last night, if he continues that, I don't think he should be sent down.....you send Kupari down with that list of homework and let Turcotte play, but thats what I would do..... regardless, I don't think you can bitch that they aren't bringing them up to get a list of what to work on, then turn around and bitch that they did JUST THAT and send him back down to work on it, seems like it should be....one or the other.

Its actually Lias that needs to go...he's adding nothing.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Self fulfilling prophecy much? I mean you bitched for 30 games, that Turcotte should get a cup of coffee....learn what he has to work on...then go back down and work on it.......and then you are bitching that they are gonna send him back down....so which is it?

BTW, Turcotte looked great last night, if he continues that, I don't think he should be sent down.....you send Kupari down with that list of homework and let Turcotte play, but thats what I would do..... regardless, I don't think you can bitch that they aren't bringing them up to get a list of what to work on, then turn around and bitch that they did JUST THAT and send him back down to work on it, seems like it should be....one or the other.

It sounds like you're agreeing with me that he deserves more than one 12-minute round is all. And that it took literally 10 guys going down with injury/sickness/bad play to get Turcotte in so they can pat themselves on the back and say "we did it, boys" isn't sitting well with me, lol.

You don't them them breaking camp with Kupari and Kaliyev, and them STILL playing is voluntary? Interesting take.

Kupari was voluntary, I believe that was the only one, given him smoking the AHL and his presence on the roster last year. I believe they're pretty high on Kaliyev but they didn't intend to keep him up as evidenced by both his play on the 4th line for all eternity AND because they broke camp with him due to injuries to AA, Andersson, and Byfield, and ever since it's been a pretty steady stream of IR and Covid. But at this point I don't think they could send Kaliyev down without a riot so

But look at the waiver games they've played with JAD, I fully believe they intended to leverage that with AK too.

 

[YAYSAY]

Its actually Lias that needs to go...he's adding nothing.

This is one of the more confusing and disappointing things this season. He looked so good in pre-season. I wonder if he's still nursing and injury or something.

 

[Jungle Boy]

i'm personally frustrated by seeing a bottom 10 offense, bottom 10 defense, and bottom 5 special teams, out of a playoff spot.. and i see almost no change in the lineup or system whatsoever except when covid-necessitated

this feels like the very definition of "doing the same thing and expecting different results"

is it the players? the coach? the management? probably a bit of every one of those, but holy f*** change something! piss someone off, put someone in an uncomfortable position, waive someone, something! if i have to watch this drop pass PP breakout fail to the enter the zone for 1:30 one more time..

Post of the year

 

[King'sPawn]

It won't, because it's not just a flat tire; however, you still have to change the flat tire even if there's 5 other things wrong with the car.

I don't disagree. I just don't see it as a priority.

If the engine's running, you can still move forward with flat tires. Even if it ****s with the wheels. If you replace the tires and the engine's ****, you still need to push the car.

Because the team's identity won't change until the front office accepts that those two are not capable of leading a team, especially one of younger players, to the playoffs much less Cup contention.

The identity MUST change, but the fraternity in charge will give them every opportunity and then some more, all to the detriment of the development of prospects being taught how not to lose as opposed how to win.

For years folks have let their love of the players blind them to the fact that their presence alone is problematic for a team that badly needs to cut ties to the previous identity. The infatuation has lead to nearly a decade of mediocrity.

Kopitar and Doughty aren't the leaders the team needs. But with or without Kopitar/Doughty, there is a culture of deference. If the Kings traded them tomorrow, who would be the new leadership group? Who would take ownership of the team?

It stems back to "prospects need to take it from the vets." Like when Voynov forced his way into the lineup to supplant Johnson. And King/Nolan were brought up.

The prospects would get a No. 1 center role opening by default.

The problem, in my opinion, is:
1) failure to prepare the prospects for the role they are meant to play
2) failure to reward prospects for their achievements where they can get meaningless roles.
3) thinking the vets alone were the answer to getting to the promised land.

The Kings have drafted a lot of talent over the years. Of the talent, they have the following prospects with NHL opportunity this season:

Anderson - he's been handled well at the blueline. He's overwhelmed at times but growing.

Bjornfot - also doing well. Put in a position to succeed.

Durzi - a pleasant surprise who only had opportunity due to falling into it. With Walker out all season he'll likely get the full season.

Byfield - variety of circumstances have kept him out

JAD - been down all season and only got a chance due to COVID

Kupari - a top-six AHL player deployed as a grinder

Kaliyev - a top-six AHL player deployed as a grinder

Vilardi - getting the Brian Boyle shuffle with his position, because they can't figure out the best position for him

Turcotte - actually deployed in the top-six as a top-six player. Only that he played center. Are they planning to keep him there or shift him to wing?

Tkachev - sent down after 2 games. They seem to be okay letting him stay down there since he's not threatening to leave for Russia. He has 2 powerplay assists in the NHL... and the team is terrible with the man advantage, almost as if he'd help them?

Looking at these issues, Doughty/Brown/Kopitar aren't the problem going forward, in my opinion.

 

[redcard]

RE: Kupari and Kaliyev in the Bottom-six

I honestly don't really have a problem with it. Reign only play 68 games this season, so even if their TOI/G is diminished with the big club they're making up for it with more games against tougher opposition. They're not playing with the Kopitar or Danault, but they're also not playing against the other team's Kopitar or Danault. This is the toughest hockey these kids have ever played and they've never touched the 18-22 minutes per night 82 games per year that the vets have done year after year. They just need to keep going.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

I was curious about how many teams have 20-21 year old players consistently in the top six....with all covid out you just can't go to daily faceoff, so let's go through the average TOI per game, top six you can generally consider....top six players

Anaheim - Zegras
Arizona - Hayton
Boston - NONE
Buffalo - Before Tuch was available, Cozens, don't know what the future holds yet as far as ice time
Calgary - NONE
Carolina - Svechkinkov, Necas at 22 is the other closest
Chicago - Dach
Colorado - NONE
Columbus - Texier (22)
Dallas - Robertson (22)
Detroit - Raymond
Edmonton - NONE
Florida - Lundell
L.A. - NONE
Minnesota - NONE
Montreal - NONE
Nashville - NONE
New Jersey - Hischier (22) Hughes, Mercer
New York Isles - NONE
New York Rags - Kaako
Ottawa - Norris (22), Stultze
Philadelphia - Farabee
Pittsburg - NONE
San Jose - NONE
Seattle - NONE
St. Louis - Thomas (22)
Tampa Bay - NONE
Toronto - NONE
Vancouver - NONE
Vegas - NONE
Washington - NONE
Winnipeg - NONE

So can we get over this idiotic argument that it's COMMON in the NHL, to let 18, 19, 20, 21, 22 year olds marinate in a top six position? 31 teams, 6 top six spots, 186 positions and yet in the entire league, only 18 spots, held by 22 and under....

And yet we are bitching that Kaliyev, Kupari, etc are somehow being mistreated ? Kaliyev before this season, 40 games pro....as a 19 year old....because of Covid....is being "ruined" because he's playing 12 minutes a game...his first year in the league......the horror.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

It sounds like you're agreeing with me that he deserves more than one 12-minute round is all. And that it took literally 10 guys going down with injury/sickness/bad play to get Turcotte in so they can pat themselves on the back and say "we did it, boys" isn't sitting well with me, lol.




Kupari was voluntary, I believe that was the only one, given him smoking the AHL and his presence on the roster last year. I believe they're pretty high on Kaliyev but they didn't intend to keep him up as evidenced by both his play on the 4th line for all eternity AND because they broke camp with him due to injuries to AA, Andersson, and Byfield, and ever since it's been a pretty steady stream of IR and Covid. But at this point I don't think they could send Kaliyev down without a riot so

But look at the waiver games they've played with JAD, I fully believe they intended to leverage that with AK too.

Based on one game, I think Turcotte deserves another, and then go from there......of course they will send down a JAD to keep a Kempe etc, that's just common sense when you can only roster 23 or whatever it is now, it's a numbers game, similar to MLBs service time rules....

 

[bland]

I don't disagree. I just don't see it as a priority.

If the engine's running, you can still move forward with flat tires. Even if it ****s with the wheels. If you replace the tires and the engine's ****, you still need to push the car.



Kopitar and Doughty aren't the leaders the team needs. But with or without Kopitar/Doughty, there is a culture of deference. If the Kings traded them tomorrow, who would be the new leadership group? Who would take ownership of the team?

It stems back to "prospects need to take it from the vets." Like when Voynov forced his way into the lineup to supplant Johnson. And King/Nolan were brought up.

The prospects would get a No. 1 center role opening by default.

The problem, in my opinion, is:
1) failure to prepare the prospects for the role they are meant to play
2) failure to reward prospects for their achievements where they can get meaningless roles.
3) thinking the vets alone were the answer to getting to the promised land.

The Kings have drafted a lot of talent over the years. Of the talent, they have the following prospects with NHL opportunity this season:

Anderson - he's been handled well at the blueline. He's overwhelmed at times but growing.

Bjornfot - also doing well. Put in a position to succeed.

Durzi - a pleasant surprise who only had opportunity due to falling into it. With Walker out all season he'll likely get the full season.

Byfield - variety of circumstances have kept him out

JAD - been down all season and only got a chance due to COVID

Kupari - a top-six AHL player deployed as a grinder

Kaliyev - a top-six AHL player deployed as a grinder

Vilardi - getting the Brian Boyle shuffle with his position, because they can't figure out the best position for him

Turcotte - actually deployed in the top-six as a top-six player. Only that he played center. Are they planning to keep him there or shift him to wing?

Tkachev - sent down after 2 games. They seem to be okay letting him stay down there since he's not threatening to leave for Russia. He has 2 powerplay assists in the NHL... and the team is terrible with the man advantage, almost as if he'd help them?

Looking at these issues, Doughty/Brown/Kopitar aren't the problem going forward, in my opinion.

The players themselves aren't the problem - its the organization's belief that they can still make a playoff run because they are here therefore the kids must first prove that they won't hurt that particular cause before being put into a position to show what they can do.

You can easily sign a bridge or two to get the kids through, they don't need to be lifers seemingly given permanent roles by birthright. There is simply no reason for Doughty and Kopitar to be given 1:30 of every PP. Brown has one PP point since Covid first hit. Those three get virtually every key shift, every last minute of one goal games, no matter how they have played that particular game.

Its the very definition of a glass ceiling. Aggression, enthusiasm, naive positivity, all hallmarks of youth are completely stifled here in favor of settling down into an older veteran style of game - a playoff style of game for a team that isn't playoff caliber.

How long do the kids have to wait before being put in a position to thrive? THE reason is that Kopitar and Doughty want to win and demanded - literally by Doughty who also claimed Anze wanted the same - reinforcements to play meaningful games while they still can.

Who exactly is benefiting from their presence? Is anybody doing better under their tutelage? Folks tried to give Anze some credit for Vilardi last year, but where is he now? Is anybody "more professional " following them as role models? This team lays stinkers every 7 or 8 games. There are no playoffs, no success, no progress, what is happening here that can be pointed to as a positive impact of keeping them?

 

[KINGS17]

Seems to me Kopitar was handed the 1C job upon his arrival at age 19. If the Kings traded Kopitar and Doughty tomorrow, the kids would survive.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I was curious about how many teams have 20-21 year old players consistently in the top six....with all covid out you just can't go to daily faceoff, so let's go through the average TOI per game, top six you can generally consider....top six players

Anaheim - Zegras
Arizona - Hayton
Boston - NONE
Buffalo - Before Tuch was available, Cozens, don't know what the future holds yet as far as ice time
Calgary - NONE
Carolina - Svechkinkov, Necas at 22 is the other closest
Chicago - Dach
Colorado - NONE
Columbus - Texier (22)
Dallas - Robertson (22)
Detroit - Raymond
Edmonton - NONE
Florida - Lundell
L.A. - NONE
Minnesota - NONE
Montreal - NONE
Nashville - NONE
New Jersey - Hischier (22) Hughes, Mercer
New York Isles - NONE
New York Rags - Kaako
Ottawa - Norris (22), Stultze
Philadelphia - Farabee
Pittsburg - NONE
San Jose - NONE
Seattle - NONE
St. Louis - Thomas (22)
Tampa Bay - NONE
Toronto - NONE
Vancouver - NONE
Vegas - NONE
Washington - NONE
Winnipeg - NONE

So can we get over this idiotic argument that it's COMMON in the NHL, to let 18, 19, 20, 21, 22 year olds marinate in a top six position? 31 teams, 6 top six spots, 186 positions and yet in the entire league, only 18 spots, held by 22 and under....

And yet we are bitching that Kaliyev, Kupari, etc are somehow being mistreated ? Kaliyev before this season, 40 games pro....as a 19 year old....because of Covid....is being "ruined" because he's playing 12 minutes a game...his first year in the league......the horror.

That's a good general view but as you point out you just went by TOI so some guys are absolutely missing. But still, thank you for the illustration, and it matches up with something I post pretty frequently about the raw numbers of 18-22 y.o.s in the league (in short, obviously there's like a handful of 18 year olds and it basically doubles every year until 21).

The other thing is no one is making the sweeping argument that we're trying to load up the top six with youth or something--only that it's a perfect scenario for getting guys some time up there. It's mind blowing that a kid like Kaliyev has spent a grand total of 26 even strength minutes with Danault, 28 minutes with Kopitar, and 240 minutes with other guys.

Looking at some other examples around the league, Robert Thomas has spent 312 minutes next to Tarasenko. Jordan Kyrou just missed the age cutoff and similar thing. That's a Stanley Cup contender unafraid to have Thomas-Kyrou-Tarasenko out there for big minutes.

Even watching tonight the Ducks--with Zegras (2C) out, they have Lundestrom moving up to 2C.

Car. you already pointed out, Necas was the pick right after Vilardi.

Washington you missed both McMichael who FINALLY got moved down for Backstrom's return and Aleksei Protas who is still playing 2RW.

The Isles' youngest forward is Kiefer Bellows and he's 2RW. Ottawa's entire top six outside Connor Brown is 19-23. Detroit has not only Raymond but also Rasmussen and Zadina in the top six. And so on.

The biggest thing with all of the above teams isn't just guys getting extended looks in the top six--it's that their bottom sixes are OLDER players, not a place to quarantine all the youth. It's a consequence of the Kings trying so hard to make the playoffs and not trusting the youth--while the contenders in the above list are showing how it should be done, line guys up next to vets, let them learn/show out by playing bigger tougher minutes. What's the point in training a guy at 1LW in the AHL then burying him on the 4th in the NHL?

So, in summary--yeah, it's problematic that--using Kaliyev as an example, he's played 40 minutes with our top-sixers while other similar players have played over 300 with theirs on much more competitive teams. Hell, i'm going through a bunch of depth charts now and the only example of a serious prospect under 23 playing bottom six on ANY team is Newhook playing 3C for the Avs, which makes a ton of sense. In most cases, it's the AAAA players or 'traditional' NHL bottom sixers. Kings' are literally the only ones taking this approach and I don't think it's because they're reinventing the wheel. Don't get me wrong, I love our 4th line, but you have to reward a guy with some extra love at some point. I don't understand why it would be controversial that we want our top-six at-bats to get some top-six batting practice.

Edit: found one, Cole Sillinger, but he's about to get sent back to juniors anyway I thought.

 

[King'sPawn]

I was curious about how many teams have 20-21 year old players consistently in the top six....with all covid out you just can't go to daily faceoff, so let's go through the average TOI per game, top six you can generally consider....top six players

Anaheim - Zegras
Arizona - Hayton
Boston - NONE
Buffalo - Before Tuch was available, Cozens, don't know what the future holds yet as far as ice time
Calgary - NONE
Carolina - Svechkinkov, Necas at 22 is the other closest
Chicago - Dach
Colorado - NONE
Columbus - Texier (22)
Dallas - Robertson (22)
Detroit - Raymond
Edmonton - NONE
Florida - Lundell
L.A. - NONE
Minnesota - NONE
Montreal - NONE
Nashville - NONE
New Jersey - Hischier (22) Hughes, Mercer
New York Isles - NONE
New York Rags - Kaako
Ottawa - Norris (22), Stultze
Philadelphia - Farabee
Pittsburg - NONE
San Jose - NONE
Seattle - NONE
St. Louis - Thomas (22)
Tampa Bay - NONE
Toronto - NONE
Vancouver - NONE
Vegas - NONE
Washington - NONE
Winnipeg - NONE

So can we get over this idiotic argument that it's COMMON in the NHL, to let 18, 19, 20, 21, 22 year olds marinate in a top six position? 31 teams, 6 top six spots, 186 positions and yet in the entire league, only 18 spots, held by 22 and under....

And yet we are bitching that Kaliyev, Kupari, etc are somehow being mistreated ? Kaliyev before this season, 40 games pro....as a 19 year old....because of Covid....is being "ruined" because he's playing 12 minutes a game...his first year in the league......the horror.

The issues have been outlined. In detail. Multiple times.

Your response is either to call it idiotic, strawman, or misrepresent when details have been outlined.

The Kings are in an unusual situation unlike what most teams are going through. There is a large gap in leadership from the vets to a new age group, while the playoffs are currently a struggle to reach. And this is an ongoing issue for years.

I have no idea why I took you off ignore in the first place. You clearly don't understand the argument well enough to even decide if something is agreeable or not. Which at this point is your problem.

 

[kings11]

I don't disagree. I just don't see it as a priority.

If the engine's running, you can still move forward with flat tires. Even if it ****s with the wheels. If you replace the tires and the engine's ****, you still need to push the car.



Kopitar and Doughty aren't the leaders the team needs. But with or without Kopitar/Doughty, there is a culture of deference. If the Kings traded them tomorrow, who would be the new leadership group? Who would take ownership of the team?

It stems back to "prospects need to take it from the vets." Like when Voynov forced his way into the lineup to supplant Johnson. And King/Nolan were brought up.

The prospects would get a No. 1 center role opening by default.

The problem, in my opinion, is:
1) failure to prepare the prospects for the role they are meant to play
2) failure to reward prospects for their achievements where they can get meaningless roles.
3) thinking the vets alone were the answer to getting to the promised land.

The Kings have drafted a lot of talent over the years. Of the talent, they have the following prospects with NHL opportunity this season:

Anderson - he's been handled well at the blueline. He's overwhelmed at times but growing.

Bjornfot - also doing well. Put in a position to succeed.

Durzi - a pleasant surprise who only had opportunity due to falling into it. With Walker out all season he'll likely get the full season.

Byfield - variety of circumstances have kept him out

JAD - been down all season and only got a chance due to COVID

Kupari - a top-six AHL player deployed as a grinder

Kaliyev - a top-six AHL player deployed as a grinder

Vilardi - getting the Brian Boyle shuffle with his position, because they can't figure out the best position for him

Turcotte - actually deployed in the top-six as a top-six player. Only that he played center. Are they planning to keep him there or shift him to wing?

Tkachev - sent down after 2 games. They seem to be okay letting him stay down there since he's not threatening to leave for Russia. He has 2 powerplay assists in the NHL... and the team is terrible with the man advantage, almost as if he'd help them?

Looking at these issues, Doughty/Brown/Kopitar aren't the problem going forward, in my opinion.

I understand your position but you’re wrong on a few of these guys and why they’ve been put in said development paths..

Kaliyev has been put in a place where he can develop an all around game and focus on aspects of his game that will make him successful in the NHL.. and you know what, it’s working! His game has improved and it’s noticeable, none more than his board play and his compete level..

Kupari is a grinder as he lacks the hockey IQ to take advantage of his physical tools, though that could also be because he is raw. He isn’t a top 6 guys so he’s where he should be.

JAD for as much as people love him just hasn’t been able to translate his AHL play to the NHL.. though he did look good when he was on the wing with Lizotte and wags a few years back.

Vilardi was tried as a center because that the position where he had the most value to the org. The truth is, he was at his best on the wing when he was in juniors and that’s why they’re given him a look there now.

 

[Mats26]

i'm personally frustrated by seeing a bottom 10 offense, bottom 10 defense, and bottom 5 special teams, out of a playoff spot.. and i see almost no change in the lineup or system whatsoever except when covid-necessitated

this feels like the very definition of "doing the same thing and expecting different results"

is it the players? the coach? the management? probably a bit of every one of those, but holy f*** change something! piss someone off, put someone in an uncomfortable position, waive someone, something! if i have to watch this drop pass PP breakout fail to the enter the zone for 1:30 one more time..

Have you tossed your jersey on the ice yet? Better do it soon before they ban fans.

 

[King'sPawn]

Seems to me Kopitar was handed the 1C job upon his arrival at age 19. If the Kings traded Kopitar and Doughty tomorrow, the kids would survive.

1) he won it over
2) considering how much you crow about having the foresight to want to trade away a terrible, uninspiring leader in his late 20s, I'm surprised you would want any prospect to follow his path.

 

[Schmooley]

I understand your position but you’re wrong on a few of these guys and why they’ve been put in said development paths..

Kaliyev has been put in a place where he can develop an all around game and focus on aspects of his game that will make him successful in the NHL.. and you know what, it’s working! His game has improved and it’s noticeable, none more than his board play and his compete level..

Kupari is a grinder as he lacks the hockey IQ to take advantage of his physical tools, though that could also be because he is raw. He isn’t a top 6 guys so he’s where he should be.

JAD for as much as people love him just hasn’t been able to translate his AHL play to the NHL.. though he did look good when he was on the wing with Lizotte and wags a few years back.

Vilardi was tried as a center because that the position where he had the most value to the org. The truth is, he was at his best on the wing when he was in juniors and that’s why they’re given him a look there now.

I dont think JAD played wing with Lizotte and Wagner. That was Kempe no? It was a good line.
JAD centered Moore and Grundstrom last year and a lot of nights that line was the only bright spot on the team. He got sent down this year and now looks worse than he did last year. Like he lost his confidence and spark.
Developing the young players is tough and I think we have one here that they mixed around too much and will go to another team and carve out a nice career. Vilardi and Kupari probably next.