Speculation: 2021-22 LA Kings News, Rumors, Roster Thread Part VI

[GoldenBearHockey]

See, I don't think that would be the case. They are patronizing Kopitar and Doughty for their previous efforts and contract status, I don't think this would be the case if they weren't here. The current direction is based on their specific presence and frankly, complaining, at least in Doughty's case.

They are patronizing them, by trying to field a competitive team.....oh f*** me.......are we being serious now?

 

[BigKing]

Rob Blake signed a two year, $6MM per season contract with LA in 2006, turning 37 in December of that season. That contract was good for ~14% of the salary cap: more than Kopitar and roughly the same as Doughty based on the current cap figure. Signs the first of two, one-year contracts with San Jose after that at age 38, turning 39 that season. 73 games played, 10 goals, 35 assists and 110 PIMs at $5MM and then a 70 game/30 point season at 39/40 for $4MM.

Kopitar and Doughty are three and five years away, respectively, from that 14% of the cap contract signing of Rob's and even further away from Rob's age 38/39 season that was his best since leaving Colorado. On top of that, Luc put up 15 goals in 65 games (a ~19 goal pace) during his age 39/40 season.

You've got two HOF players running this thing that played until they were 40 and felt like they were still good hockey players. Bluc is looking at two future HOF'ers in Kopitar and Doughty and they are expecting the same. Barring injury or a trade demand, they aren't going anywhere as long as Luc and Blake are running the show.

 

[KINGS17]

Rob Blake signed a two year, $6MM per season contract with LA in 2006, turning 37 in December of that season. That contract was good for ~14% of the salary cap: more than Kopitar and roughly the same as Doughty based on the current cap figure. Signs the first of two, one-year contracts with San Jose after that at age 38, turning 39 that season. 73 games played, 10 goals, 35 assists and 110 PIMs at $5MM and then a 70 game/30 point season at 39/40 for $4MM.

Kopitar and Doughty are three and five years away, respectively, from that 14% of the cap contract signing of Rob's and even further away from Rob's age 38/39 season that was his best since leaving Colorado. On top of that, Luc put up 15 goals in 65 games (a ~19 goal pace) during his age 39/40 season.

You've got two HOF players running this thing that played until they were 40 and felt like they were still good hockey players. Bluc is looking at two future HOF'ers in Kopitar and Doughty and they are expecting the same. Barring injury or a trade demand, they aren't going anywhere as long as Luc and Blake are running the show.

Yup, Blake and Robitaille were fine with making big money while being good players on Kings teams that were going nowhere.

Fire Blake and Robitaille. I am fine with firing them.

 

[YAYSAY]

These are all managerial issues not knowing hiw to assess and/or set expectations.

I still believe players who have inherent value to the team, and Kopitar serve as a dual-threat on both ends of the ice is valuable. He is skilled and responsible. Similar to Doughty.

Giving them all those minutes is certainly a problem. I agree. Durzi has outplayed Doughty on the PP. No forward has really outplayed Kopitar, not because Kopitar's been great, but the forwards are just mediocre. Brown doesn't belong on the powerplay, at all.

Again, your concerns stem back to management/coaching issues. I don't see how trading away the vets will resolve the issue, since they'll still chase the cup with vets.

Agree with you except I definitely think Kempe has outplayed Kopitar. I'd say Kempe has been our best player so far this season.

 

[King'sPawn]

1. Kopitar didn't have any competition for the job when he arrived, and the Kings didn't try to get a vet who could compete. Instead, Kopitar's main competition for the job was Armstrong. So, yes Kopitar was handed the job.

Which he outplayed, and Armstrong was a solid, if unspectacular top-6 player. What 19 year-old outplayed the corpse of Carter to even take the No. 2 spot he held, let alone the No. 1?

2. My foresight was pretty decent. I always said Kopitar is a good player, but I also said his contract was a mistake for the Kings and they wouldn't win jack with him on his current deal.

You were wrong about trading Jeff Carter when he had value as well, so there is that.

How was I wrong? I said it's pointless to trade Carter for a variety of reasons, including the same issues the Kings are dealing with now. He finally lost his spot. And I said it was good timing.

Nice try. Just keep moving the goal posts. Doughty in no way has been outplayed by Durzi on the pp.

Well try looking at the numbers and you will see DD has much better ones than Durzi on the PP.

You said Doughty has "much better numbers" on the PP. My argument was qualitative, not quantitative. I provided qualitative reasoning for Durzi outplaying Doughty: better movement, shots through traffic, less predictability.

So what are the "much better numbers"? I can't read your mind.

Agree with you except I definitely think Kempe has outplayed Kopitar. I'd say Kempe has been our best player so far this season.

Fair enough, I disagree. Even we did agree, though, Kempe is better at wing and the rest of the forwards up front have been bad.

 

[bland]

They are patronizing them, by trying to field a competitive team.....oh f*** me.......are we being serious now?

Yes. Sorry you aren't capable of looking at the bigger picture.

But keep bitching about the unimportant things, it's adorable.

 

[damacles1156]

Blake still hasn't laid out an Identity to his roster or how he wants his teams to play.

 

[DoktorJeep]

The only identity the Kings need is youth, size and speed, in that order.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Yes. Sorry you aren't capable of looking at the bigger picture.

But keep bitching about the unimportant things, it's adorable.

What bigger picture is that, that our prospects who are all 19-20-21 arent playing in the NHL? THAT bigger picture?

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

The only identity the Kings need is youth, size and speed, in that order.

I'd flip speed and size, size is great, but if you can't use it due to lack of footspeed, it won't matter.

 

[cyclones22]

I simply don't buy this outdated thought process that a player like Kaliyev must play on the 4th line to "round out" his game. What a crock of bullcrap. Your least talented players play on the 4th line, period and he is not that. Are you telling me that the 1st and 2nd lines don't backcheck? They don't have defensive zone starts or are not required to play defensively responsible or participate in board battles or execute breakouts? What exactly should Kaliyev be learning from the 4th line that he can't on the 1st or 2nd lines? Okay, quality of competition? Is that your main reason for playing him on the 4th line? Even then, you're trying to match your top lines to get favorable matchups too with last change at home. RJ has done the laundry list of comparable young prospects who currently aren't playing on the 4th line of their NHL teams, I'm not doing that exercise again.

Let's talk about how Toffoli broke in under Sutter as a comparison since he's the last goal scorer the Kings have drafted and developed. Plays 10 games in 2013 as a rookie and at even strength 60% of the time he's lined up with Mike Richards, Jeff Carter and Kopitar. He spent 15% of the time on the 4th line with Jordan Nolan, Brad Richardson, Clifford and Colin Fraser. You mean you can stick a sniper with known skating issues on the wing of your best two-way centers? What a novel idea. In 2014 Toffoli was firmly playing in the top 6. Sutter did the same thing with Tanner Pearson. He didn't play those guys big minutes, very similar to the TOI Arty gets now actually. The difference is top 6 deployment vs bottom 6 and Mike Richards, Jeff Carter and Kopi were Toffoli's primary centers in 2013 and beyond not freaking Blake Lizotte.

 

[King'sPawn]

Odd Byfield is being loaned to Ontario with a game to play today. Is he not eligible to play, or is there something else?

 

[bland]

I'd flip speed and size, size is great, but if you can't use it due to lack of footspeed, it won't matter.

 

[cyclones22]

I hope that Tkachev isn't just taxi bound. The PP could use a shot creator.

 

[Lt Dan]

I simply don't buy this outdated thought process that a player like Kaliyev must play on the 4th line to "round out" his game. What a crock of bullcrap. Your least talented players play on the 4th line, period and he is not that. Are you telling me that the 1st and 2nd lines don't backcheck? They don't have defensive zone starts or are not required to play defensively responsible or participate in board battles or execute breakouts? What exactly should Kaliyev be learning from the 4th line that he can't on the 1st or 2nd lines? Okay, quality of competition? Is that your main reason for playing him on the 4th line? Even then, you're trying to match your top lines to get favorable matchups too with last change at home. RJ has done the laundry list of comparable young prospects who currently aren't playing on the 4th line of their NHL teams, I'm not doing that exercise again.

Let's talk about how Toffoli broke in under Sutter as a comparison since he's the last goal scorer the Kings have drafted and developed. Plays 10 games in 2013 as a rookie and at even strength 60% of the time he's lined up with Mike Richards, Jeff Carter and Kopitar. He spent 15% of the time on the 4th line with Jordan Nolan, Brad Richardson, Clifford and Colin Fraser. You mean you can stick a sniper with known skating issues on the wing of your best two-way centers? What a novel idea. In 2014 Toffoli was firmly playing in the top 6. Sutter did the same thing with Tanner Pearson. He didn't play those guys big minutes, very similar to the TOI Arty gets now actually. The difference is top 6 deployment vs bottom 6 and Mike Richards, Jeff Carter and Kopi were Toffoli's primary centers in 2013 and beyond not freaking Blake Lizotte.

Even though the software will only let me like this post once, I am liking it four times

 

[Telos]

Odd Byfield is being loaned to Ontario with a game to play today. Is he not eligible to play, or is there something else?

Probably conditioning and getting him back on track given how much time he's missed. He is someone I wouldn't expect to be sent down for long though.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Odd Byfield is being loaned to Ontario with a game to play today. Is he not eligible to play, or is there something else?

Probably conditioning after having Covid

 

[LAKings88]

Rob Blake signed a two year, $6MM per season contract with LA in 2006, turning 37 in December of that season. That contract was good for ~14% of the salary cap: more than Kopitar and roughly the same as Doughty based on the current cap figure. Signs the first of two, one-year contracts with San Jose after that at age 38, turning 39 that season. 73 games played, 10 goals, 35 assists and 110 PIMs at $5MM and then a 70 game/30 point season at 39/40 for $4MM.

Kopitar and Doughty are three and five years away, respectively, from that 14% of the cap contract signing of Rob's and even further away from Rob's age 38/39 season that was his best since leaving Colorado. On top of that, Luc put up 15 goals in 65 games (a ~19 goal pace) during his age 39/40 season.

You've got two HOF players running this thing that played until they were 40 and felt like they were still good hockey players. Bluc is looking at two future HOF'ers in Kopitar and Doughty and they are expecting the same. Barring injury or a trade demand, they aren't going anywhere as long as Luc and Blake are running the show.

Honest question, do you think the next gm would entertain trading both players?

 

[KingsFan7824]

Are we still talking about how Kopitar and Doughty need to be traded? Really? As though any GM would do so. Or at least could do so. Not many old guys or long contracts get dealt in a cap world. And no, neither was going to be traded in 2016 or 2018 either. Not with the team where it was at both times, and no, a 1sr rd at best team is rarely when teams go scorched earth. Its just complete fan fiction. Most organizations, most of the time, unless the player forces something, will chug along with their name guys as long as possible. The Flames did it with Iginla. The Canucks did it with the twins. The Sabres kept at it even after Drury and Briere walked.

I simply don't buy this outdated thought process that a player like Kaliyev must play on the 4th line to "round out" his game. What a crock of bullcrap. Your least talented players play on the 4th line, period and he is not that. Are you telling me that the 1st and 2nd lines don't backcheck? They don't have defensive zone starts or are not required to play defensively responsible or participate in board battles or execute breakouts? What exactly should Kaliyev be learning from the 4th line that he can't on the 1st or 2nd lines? Okay, quality of competition? Is that your main reason for playing him on the 4th line? Even then, you're trying to match your top lines to get favorable matchups too with last change at home. RJ has done the laundry list of comparable young prospects who currently aren't playing on the 4th line of their NHL teams, I'm not doing that exercise again.

Let's talk about how Toffoli broke in under Sutter as a comparison since he's the last goal scorer the Kings have drafted and developed. Plays 10 games in 2013 as a rookie and at even strength 60% of the time he's lined up with Mike Richards, Jeff Carter and Kopitar. He spent 15% of the time on the 4th line with Jordan Nolan, Brad Richardson, Clifford and Colin Fraser. You mean you can stick a sniper with known skating issues on the wing of your best two-way centers? What a novel idea. In 2014 Toffoli was firmly playing in the top 6. Sutter did the same thing with Tanner Pearson. He didn't play those guys big minutes, very similar to the TOI Arty gets now actually. The difference is top 6 deployment vs bottom 6 and Mike Richards, Jeff Carter and Kopi were Toffoli's primary centers in 2013 and beyond not freaking Blake Lizotte.

And Pearson and Toffoli were both 21 when they got a real shot. Kaliyev is 21 in June or whatever.

 

[KINGS17]

Are we still talking about how Kopitar and Doughty need to be traded? Really? As though any GM would do so. Or at least could do so. Not many old guys or long contracts get dealt in a cap world. And no, neither was going to be traded in 2016 or 2018 either. Not with the team where it was at both times, and no, a 1sr rd at best team is rarely when teams go scorched earth. Its just complete fan fiction. Most organizations, most of the time, unless the player forces something, will chug along with their name guys as long as possible. The Flames did it with Iginla. The Canucks did it with the twins. The Sabres kept at it even after Drury and Briere walked.

Yes, by all means let's hope the Kings do what these failed organizations did to extend their lack of relevance.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

100% misses Rasmussen, Zadina has not been playing top six minutes, not sure how you conclude he is playing top six, you bring up Bellows, he's played 12 freaking games, and is there because of Covid etc, Protas has been up and down the lineup, and is playing now because Mantha is on IR, question are you the same level of upset that neither Protas nor McMichael are getting PP minutes? Or does that not matter because, they slotted into a top six role when injuries occur?

You say you can only find Newhook, but you ignore Lafrierre in NY playing bottom six, Dach is now slated in the bottom six, organizations move their players around on an hourly basis it seems like,

But if you are this upset that a 20 year old who hasn't played a full season pro isn't getting top six minutes because of whatever reason, by all means, be upset, but I tend to think you are missing the bigger picture, where guys are adjusting to playing an 82 game season, and adjusting to the conditioning that the NHL has, it's not the same as the AHL or OHL,

You rail that the kids aren't being allowed to play, yet as soon as injuries happen, where did Turcotte play? They could have EASILY put Moore or Lizotte up there like they did last time this happened.

Sounds like you are frustrated because things aren't moving at YOUR desired pace, while ignoring the human element of the game.

As far as controversial etc, none of our kids, have played a full season of pro hockey yet, and not all prospects are built the same, Robert Thomas, your example, started out....on the 4th line, 13 minutes a game his first pro year, with St. Louis, next year, 3rd line minutes, at 14 minutes a game, last year only 33 games, back down to 13 minutes a game, and this year FOUR YEARS IN, he's at 19 minutes a game....

Guess that's not optimal development though....

Go to their GDTs and check it out if you don't believe me, and it's all over the lineup sites, etc.

Buddy, yes, that is exactly my point, that when opportunities occur, these organizations have ZERO PROBLEM giving guys the roles they're eventually going to play to try out. Yeah organizations move players all around...except the Kings. And as you point out, NONE of them are relegated to the 4th line, often to the 3rd, which for deep teams is an offensive line.

I agree--they shouldn't be there all season. Also agreed on pro game conditioning and many other things. I have said that in LITERALLY EVERY POST. NO ONE is advocating for, say, Turcotte full-time 2C; they were simply advocating it was time for a callup and a taste. Similarly, I'm not advocating Kaliyev play 20 minutes next to Kopitar every game--only that he play more than 20 minutes there all season. Yes, they finally did the right thing and put Turcotte at 2C--did you see what it took for them to do so? Literally 10 guys out of the lineup.

It's not about my desired pace; it's about NHL norms. If you believe Blake is the smartest man in the NHL, you do you. I don't agree, and while I often advocate being patient, there's being patient and then there's being too conservative. I don't think the Kings have re-invented the 'development path,' I just think they've tried to accomplish too many goals at once and are getting C-s on all of them. They have put a bunch of forward redundancies in the path of prospects to the extent it's even hurting them at the AHL level.

Going back to Robert Thomas as an example--sure, let's look at this rookie year--70 games, and about 40% of his playing time was with 3C Bozak. BUT--he got equal time with literally every other Blues center, including extended stints on the top line with ROR, and was playing in the top six regularly by the end of the year. Raw playing time as a metric for evaluation isn't telling me anything; opportunity is the name of the game. Even a rookie Thomas got to try out chemistry and roles all over the lineup even if his 'default' was bottom six 40-60% of the time.

 

[Mats26]

No matter how we see it, the bigger picture is that this team is f#@ked when the prospects are ready for NHL ice time, which looks like real soon. We simply have too many prospects that will need ice time and not enough roster spots.

If we don't move out anyone in the top 6, then we have next year:
Kopitar-Danault-Kempe-Iafallo-Arvidsson....(if Brown re-signs, I am done with this team) leaves one winger spot in the top 6 next year. Inside track belongs to Kaliyev, but what do I know what these clowns will do.

Leaves around 10-12 players\prospects for bottom 6 roles. Unless a major cleanup happens to give our top kids ice time, expect more of the same revolving door with vet priorities in the bottom 6 next year.

 

[kings11]

Its actually the exact opposite of this.

Kaliyev is NOT getting a ton of scoring chances and his game is NOT rounding out. His chances are of the grinding variety, mostly half chances requiring individual efforts. His game is limited and will likely always be, so you need to flesh out what he does bring to the table and you do so by putting him in position to finish chances based on quality, deceptive puck movement to create time and space, not jamming pucks in front and the occasional outnumbered attack every dozen games or so.

Kaliyev is not a well-rounded player, you didn't draft him for that. He is a weapon, nit a 200 foot multi-use player. You draft him to finish plays and poach goals with quick hands that others don't have the aptitude to use. He is NOT developing that skill here in this role.

That’s such a shortsighted statement, shit if you wanted someone to just bomb shots all day we have one Martin Frk down in Ontario.
Arthur needed to up his compete level but judging by your comment he should just float and wait for things to come to him right? From his first game to mow his game has improved which is what you call development, a weird concept I know.
You say he’s not getting chances? What games are you looking at? He’s had 65 att vs Zegras at 73 or Terry at 75.. so that argument doesn’t fly.
If you can’t see his growth throughout this season just say so.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

That’s such a shortsighted statement, shit if you wanted someone to just bomb shots all day we have one Martin Frk down in Ontario.
Arthur needed to up his compete level but judging by your comment he should just float and wait for things to come to him right? From his first game to mow his game has improved which is what you call development, a weird concept I know.
You say he’s not getting chances? What games are you looking at? He’s had 65 att vs Zegras at 73 or Terry at 75.. so that argument doesn’t fly.
If you can’t see his growth throughout this season just say so.

They can't see it because they are so focused on the tree, they miss the goddamn forest, I mean shit, Terry took 4 years to get where he is, and these clowns want it in 30 games.....it's amazing.

Kaliyev has absolutely 100% improved and is getting chances, the real test is going to be next year, where do they slot him..... again, these guys think players are ranked 1-12, and you put 1-3 on line one, 4-6 on line 2, 7-9 on line 3, and 10-12 on line 4, if that's not how it's done, it's OMG this organization doesn't know what it's doing....yadda yadda yadda..... it's just now, much much louder, even than before in 2010 etc.

They see Zegras succeeding, and make no mistake, he is absolutely killing it, and then go OMG why isn't Turcotte doing the same thing, because you know, all top 10 picks are built the same in the same way at the same time from the same factory.

 

[King'sPawn]

That’s such a shortsighted statement, shit if you wanted someone to just bomb shots all day we have one Martin Frk down in Ontario.
Arthur needed to up his compete level but judging by your comment he should just float and wait for things to come to him right? From his first game to mow his game has improved which is what you call development, a weird concept I know.
You say he’s not getting chances? What games are you looking at? He’s had 65 att vs Zegras at 73 or Terry at 75.. so that argument doesn’t fly.
If you can’t see his growth throughout this season just say so.

For all the praise Kempe is getting, he's pacing at 34 G and 16 assists. And people are saying he's been the best forward this season.

This is concerning because:
- it's still inferior to Tyler Toffoli's best season
- 50 points from your "best" player is extremely weak, especially when your management wants an up-tempo game and you're bleeding chances against.

The ability to churn out regular NHLers who can slot in and not be complete liabilities is an admitted strength in the organization.

But as Kopitar, Iafallo, etc phase out, the organization has shown an inability to "develop" top flight forwards through the pipeline.

Kaliyev doesn't have to be a liability. But he does need to develop his game with his toolset.

Or the Kings just need to accept they want a lineup full of defensive forwards, adjust their system/structure/plan accordingly, and stop prioritizing players who have stronger offensive toolsets.